OWJones 1,981 Posted April 5, 2014 So far I've been constraining myself to using calendared vinyl (Oracal 631 and 651) for most of the work I do - it's cheap and reliable and so far none of my work has been the sort of thing that I needed to last for more than 3-5 years... However, I got a call this morning from a local motorcycle shop that just got bought out and is under a new name and they would like 100 single color cut-vinyl decals, approximately business card sized with their name, and the city & state, to put on the rear fender of all the motorcycles they sell. I am assuming they are wanting them to last indefinitely and hold up over time, so I'm thinking it's time to go with Cast Vinyl... Questions I have, before I spend the money to go this route (if you know me, you know I'm a cheapskate by nature): How does Oracal 751 or 951 cut compared to 651/631? I see that it's only 2mil thick, so I assume I'll have to use a little less blade, but anything else I need to worry about changing - speed, pressure, etc, or should it cut pretty similarly? How does it weed compared to 651? Their design is almost all text, with one stylized capital letter and I'm not gung-ho about weeding 100 sets of small letters (24 pt, about 1/4" tall) if it's going to be a pain to weed. How difficult is it to remove 751/951 if the customer decides they don't want the logo on their new bike? Is one easier than the other to remove, or are they all about the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted April 6, 2014 You will want to dial back the pressure a bit with the good stuff. You may find yourself converted. 751 is real nice stuff. I would say it is superior in just about every way to 651. Not knocking 651 cause I use it about half the time too. 751 is probably easier to remove because it will stretch if you grab hold and pull rather than tear. Weeding is fine too and a little less picky because the cut is easier. You may notice after using the 751 that the 651 will feel stiff and sometimes almost tears away from the weed. Hard to explain except that 651 is sort of leaning toward chrome vinyl, in the middle between 751 and the mirrored chrome sits 651 although it is closer to 751 than to the chrome. That probably didn't make any sense but the 751 is smooth. Have never used the 951. I think the reason they will warranty the 751 for so much longer is the cast vinyl will stretch and give with the substrate so much better that the whole thing stays on there better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted April 7, 2014 Adhesion is significantly lower on 751 (1.6lb) vs. 651 and 951 @ 4.1 lbs. so if removal is a concern 751 may be the better choice. I've cut all 3 and for 751 and 951 I reduce my blade and pressure slightly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 7, 2014 Adhesion is significantly lower on 751 (1.6lb) vs. 651 and 951 @ 4.1 lbs. so if removal is a concern 751 may be the better choice. I've cut all 3 and for 751 and 951 I reduce my blade and pressure slightly. didn't know that - when I had the body work done on the ram the 751 was stuck very very well when I went to remove the bed stripe . . . .can't argue with specs and haven't tried 951 yet though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted April 7, 2014 That's news to me too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted April 7, 2014 Here is the pdf for 751 and it says 4.1 so I think you got some mis-information http://www.orafol.com/tl_files/content/downloads/technicaldatasheets/americas/en/oracal/oracal-751.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted April 7, 2014 My specs came from the Oracal 2012 color chart so Oracal has something wrong somewhere. Don't know which is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted April 7, 2014 Huh. I pulled that pdf directly from their current site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 7, 2014 all I know is the thin cast was so much fun to remove from the fender - but it almost looks painted when applied it is so thin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted April 7, 2014 Huh. I pulled that pdf directly from their current site. My chart is 2 years old so they probably corrected it on the site. I'll make a note so I know next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jessefisher4 35 Posted April 8, 2014 I have used 651 and 951. It's like night and day. I always thought 651 was great to work with. Then I used 951. Awesome stuff!! Cuts and weeds very well. Conformability is great! Had some left over and used it on my vehicle!! Would definitely recommend it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
