Graphtec FC7000, is it still worth it today? (VS CE7000)

[Franco 0]

Hello everyone!

I was looking for a CE6000 or CE7000 for some time, but now, I have an opportunity to get my hands on an old and used but fully fonctionnal FC7000-75 for cheap. It seems on the paper than it is far superior than the CE7000.
It has a down force of up to 600g and max speed of 1485mm/s, with the possibility of getting a second blade holder (for creasing for instance). It is also equipped with a guillotine, which would be nice to have. It is compatible with all the same blades (CB09 / CB15) as CE6000 and CE7000.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

But well, that's the specification on the paper.

My goal is to cut thin 300gsm ~ 350gsm cardstock, 0.33mm to 0.5mm thick (in 1 to 2 passes) with clean edges to make small boxes, greeting cards and also some stickers (which wouldn't be the main focus).

I was wondering if the newer CE, even though they have a max down force of 450 gsm only, would give more precise and consistent cuts with clean edges. I really need the edges of the paper to be cut very cleanly.

Is anyone familiar with all these machines? And what should I look for, regarding parts that would have worn out with an FC7000 that could be at max18 years old.
How expensive would be the most critical replacement part that could actually have worn out with time?

If it could only run for even 6 months 7 hours a day, I'd say I'd be blessed, that would allow me to buy a new one. For 750$, that would be 125$ a month, which wouldn't be that bad. But I need to make sure it can properly cut up to 350gsm paper, even if it needs 2 passes.

Also, the machine is sold by a company that resell seized material from companies that went out of business. So I could only guess it is not sold because something's wrong with it.
If the FC7000 is not recommanded, I could only afford a ce7000 and it would be second hand too, but I'm not sure it could handle well 350gsm with clean cuts (straight lines and 2-3mm rounded corners)

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

The FC7000-75 is a Great cutter,  built like a tank. Stands much higher than the CE units. I purchased mine new in 2008, I cut almost every day. Never have had the first problem with it.  You probably won't find parts for it unless you purchased another one that is broke down. I think the problem that you are going to find reviewing these cutters is, that we don't cut paper and card stock with our Graphtecs. I sure don't. Only a couple of people on here using a FC7000. We cut vinyl. I don't know of anyone that uses this cutter or any Graphtecs that answers questions on here, that do cut paper or card stock. Whatever cutter you get you had better buy boxes of blades. Paper will dull blades very fast. I can get 8-9 months out of my blades cutting only vinyl.  You will also need to cut on an adhesive cutting mat. There is only a couple handfuls of volunteers on here that answer questions.   I don't know what you are calling a guillotine, but my FC has a cross cutter on it. Cuts from right to left with a different larger blade in a channel going across the front of the cutter.

[Franco 0]

Thank you for your reply.

It is reassuring to read the FC7000 is a solid unit. I guess that if you treat it well, everything should be fine.
Do you use genuine blade, or do you also buy blades from china? If so, how are they? I wouldn't mind replacing the blades more often, as long as it cuts sharp and clean edges.

I found this italian website where they sell an auto sheet feeder coupled with a CE7000:

https://www.dpr-srl.it/en/gemini-digital-finishing-system-sheets.html

They claim it can cut up to 350gsm, to create small boxes and tags. So I guess the FC7000 should have no problem? I also found one video of them cutting boxes, at 400mm/s in 3 passes.

That's actually great (despite the cut not being that perfect here and there), but I wonder how accurate are the 2nd and 3rd pass. And they use a CB09 holder and blade, which is not for thicker material, so I guess you could do even better with 15mm blades.

Again, correct me if I said anything wrong.

Anyway thank you for your help, it's conforting to hear from others experiences. Even though you only cut vinyl, I'm happy to hear the FC7000 is still a good plotter.

And yes, I meant a cross-cutter, I read about guillotine somewhere, everything I talk about, I read. I've been intensively reading for 2 weeks now about plotters.

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

I stocked up with blades from Seiki, years ago. My first cutter was a Seiki.  But I don't see Seikitech website anymore.  They were great blades, cheap and last 8-9 months for me.  They were 5 for  $25 free ship in the US. The FC unit has adjustable pinch rollers, that you just flip down for different adjustments, lighter or thicker material. Several years back I picked up a FC8000-75 for cheap, just for a back up. The sellers messed it up, I had it fixed in about 15 minutes. LOL. They had been cutting reflective with it. They even added two more pinch rollers to it. Now it has 4 pinch rollers. It came with the red top blade holder.  I have never needed to use it. But it is sitting here ready to go.  Another great cutter. It has the dual blade holder in the carriage head, to cut over a channel. FC7000 only has 1 hole for blade holder.  UScutter sells the set up for the CE7000 also.  It is for a 15" machine.  

https://uscutter.com/Graphtec-Ce-7000-40-Plus-Auto-Feeding-Sheet-Cutter/

[slice&dice 2,455]

"...to get an old and used but fully functional FC7000-75 for cheap. "

How cheap?

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

I would still be asking more for mine right now. I know my cutter and how it was used.

[Franco 0]

 

"...to get an old and used but fully functional FC7000-75 for cheap. "

How cheap?

It's 750$

You convinced me, I'm going to take the FC7000. It offers more functionalities and things were made sturdier back then. It is supposed to be a commercial machine after all.
I'll give some updates when I'll bring it back home.

It is working with cutting master 3 and Illustrator right? What do cutting master 4 and 5 bring, if only a better looking UI ?

[slice&dice 2,455]

I am a big proponent of hard negotiations, offer $500 and show them the money in your hand.

If they want this monstrosity sitting around (how many buyers for vinyl cutters are they going to encounter?) then that's their prerogative, but here you are, at their doorstep ready to haul it outta there, and turn over 5 benjamins for the privelege.

That being said, is the seller not providing you a working demonstration before you pack it up?

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

 

It's 750$

You convinced me, I'm going to take the FC7000. It offers more functionalities and things were made sturdier back then. It is supposed to be a commercial machine after all.
I'll give some updates when I'll bring it back home.

It is working with cutting master 3 and Illustrator right? What do cutting master 4 and 5 bring, if only a better looking UI ?

I started with Flexistarter 7.6 with my Seiki, and use Flexistarter 8.6 with my Graphtec.  That is the only software that I have used. 

[Franco 0]

 

I am a big proponent of hard negotiations, offer $500 and show them the money in your hand.

If they want this monstrosity sitting around (how many buyers for vinyl cutters are they going to encounter?) then that's their prerogative, but here you are, at their doorstep ready to haul it outta there, and turn over 5 benjamins for the privelege.

That being said, is the seller not providing you a working demonstration before you pack it up?

I'm pretty sure they don't know how this thing works.

Yes, you're right, I will negotiate, but as they are resellers, I don't know how much profit they will make on this. They may have gotten it at auctions for 400... I've just searched on the official gov gate for auctions, and they got it for about 250$, but without "certificate of conformity"!! They didn't bother taking different pictures or rewrite the details and specifications, so I know this is it!
I'm going to negotiate really hard, now that I know that. Thank you for making me think about all of this.

 

I started with Flexistarter 7.6 with my Seiki, and use Flexistarter 8.6 with my Graphtec.  That is the only software that I have used. 

Well I guess cutting master 3 will do the work, as I'm using illustrator cs6.

I attached the only 2 pics available, how do you guys feel about it ? I found the close-up pic on the auction website. It needs some cleaning and care. Also, I have 2 weeks to bring it back and get a refund (it's an 8 hours trip!).

But this will be my first plotter so I don't know how much time I will need to make sure it works properly (I probably should order blades right now). I'm comfortable with machines in general, I've used CNC machines before, and graphtec seem to make their plotters very easy to use for operators. Also, I'm intending to use it directly with Illustrator, which I've been professionnaly trained with, and using for now 15 years. So I'm really comfortable with computers and softwares in general too. So I think ... I should be ok?

Again, I'm trying to convince myself here, but this is seized material from a compagny that went out of business, so it should be working? 
We can see they also had a Suma D120R and a lot of vinyl left.

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

Looks OK,  Too bad the material basket isn't on it, It was standard. Like the one on the Summa. I have posted how to set blade depth to your material, hundreds of times on here.  It works. Hope all works out for you.   Also these Graphtecs have a Graphtec Cutting Controller that you can download. Windows only from website. You can control most settings right from your computer. It shows up as Condition 9 on the cutter screen. I don't ever change settings on my vinyl cutter. Speed, force, is all changed on my computer. Your cutter has to be sitting there ready to cut to change settings. But I really don't change those either too much, because of what I cut. I also don't run the heck out of my cutter either.  I run slow, it is not a race. I am usually cutting while on here.

[slice&dice 2,455]

Get the seller to throw in the app tape and vinyl.

Let us know how this turns out. We love pig-in-a-poke troubleshooting!

[Franco 0]

Hey Everyone!

Here are the news, and they're not great!

So in the end, the seller of the FC7000 was not very talkative, and by the time I had his information to go and collect the FC7000 at his house, he sold it to someone else...
I searched for another ad for a FC7000, and found nothing (at a similar price).

So after a week, i finally decided to go with a CE6000-60 for about the same price.
The seller, who's a professionnal with a running business, offered to ship it directly to me, free of charge.
It was in great condition and the seller was really nice. I had a friend of mine near his place who was able to go and see the machine for themselves, and it was as described.

I won't get into the details why my friend was not able to pick it up for me, but in the end, it got shipped directly to my house.
I trusted the guy with the packaging and protection...
And I guess I shouldn't have... He did good but not good enough...

I'm not sure if I have to make a different topic since it does not concern the FC7000 anymore, but I attached some pictures (the one I sent to the seller).
It suffered a lot during transportation... It got cracks on every corners. I'm really pissed.

But hey, I thought, if it'd just be for aesthetics, I couldn't mind! So I unscrewed the front plastic parts to put them back in place. And I quickly ran some test using the internal square and triangle test. It kind of worked with what I had in hands, so I thought nothing was wrong and I just had to do some adjustments.
Then, I had to leave for the week end, so I couldn't go into further testing. This was last week.

Finally, today I was able to dive into graphtec studio, to do some real testing.
I quickly drew a circle and a rectangle with rounded corners, and sent them to the cutter with 300gsm paper.
When it cut through, it cut through cleanly in only one pass without mat, pen in front position.
But some parts for some reason are not cut through. And the curves (even some straight lines) are not precise or regular. Also, all the different test cuts are not regular themselves. Sometimes I would have one side of the rectangle not correctly cut, sometime it would be another side. Same for the circle, and the blade doesn't even end its run on the starting point.
I think there might be something wrong with the carrier, which seems loose.  Is the carrier supposed to be a little loose?

I'm so pissed things went this way.

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

Sorry things went that way, but the first thing you need to do is make sure the rollers of the carriage head are firmly down in the track. The blade depth is the next important item. That blade should be so far in your blade holder, that you wouldn't think that it would even cut. You use the force of the machine . My blade depth instruction are posted hundreds of time on the forum. They work. Calibrate the cutter to your cutting software.  No need to even do cuts until that TEST cut is correct. You have to get that correct first.  Blade offset is zero. 

[Franco 0]

I read about blade depth before I posted here, and I think I read it from you on this forum. I will check, I'm sure it's not set right yet.
But what's worrying me is that the cutting rollers are not firmly down on the track, how do you adjust that? Do you have to remove the whole top cover and screen to be able to access those screws?

Also, does the balde offset change for CBU15 pen holder? Or do you just need to set the blade holder in the settings of the plotter?

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

Why not just download the Graphtec Cutting controller and just run from there?  Right from your computer.  You don't have to mess with the settings on the vinyl cutter.  Offset is zero on blade and pen. It's all pretty easy with the controller.  Your machine has to be ready to cut to use it. I have never had to mess with any mechanical parts on my cutter. So I don't know what it is supposed to be on your carriage head.

[Franco 0]

I haven't paid attention yet to the option to change what pen is used from the software, but I did notice you could change this from the plotter, that's why I was asking about it that way. That's great then, and kind of a logical decision from Graphtec, as long as you use their blades, it shouldn't have to be overly complicated.

Well, about the carriage head, it moves as you can see on my videos, without applying much force.
I just remove the two screws on the left and right of the head to see if there was an easy fix, like a screw to tighten, or if there was anything broken. But either way,  doesn't seem like it.

I can feel the carriage head move forward and up just while moving it left or right when the machine is off (when I want to access the push rollers and the tool head is on the way).

Maybe it is supposed to have some amount of play? Does it seem, as you said it, that the rollers of the carriage head are firmly down in the track to you ?

Thanks a lot for you help, it is greatly appreciated. This gives me so much stress. I just want to make sure no important part got damage during this chaotic delivery.

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

   My carriage head rollers, roll in a track above.  You can see on your picture of the FC7000.  You could do a search for the Graphtec Service manual. The service manuals are out there.  Not the owner manual, the service manual. Watch out for the link for Manualslib, It had a virus come up. There is another Arkiplot.com that seemed to work alright. I don't use blades from Graphtec, only the first blade that came with the cutter.  I use aftermarket blades. After setting the blade depth correctly, show some pictures of the TEST cuts from the TEST feature. That TEST cut has to be correct first.  Then your cutter has to be calibrated to the cutting software that you are using. Your push rollers holding the vinyl has to be over the grit roller below. There are special areas for the push rollers to be.   Your welcome.  On another note, wasn't that package insured?  Personally I would send it back to the seller. That's my 2c.

[darcshadow 1,635]

I have a ce6000-60 and there is zero play in the carriage head. I don't know if there is anyway to adjust it or not, never dug into that part. Good luck in the repair.

[mfatty500 455]

That carriage definitely needs to be tight, you have to remove the cover and one small circuit board on top of the carriage to get to the screws for the carriage.

[Franco 0]

Hello everyone,

I finally got it fixed, everything is working as it should, there is no more play in the carriage head. I did exactly as @mfatty500 said, I removed the small circuit board on top of the carriage head to be able to access the two screws, I loosened the right one, and when everything got back into place and seemed firmly on track, I tightened it back.

I also replaced the teflon mat (oem), the blade holder and the blade (chinese parts), and everything is working great now.

@MZ SKEETER I thought many times about returning the package, but I don't know why, I persevered.
I did calibrate the cut with the sticker paper I bought for testing, using the test cut on the machine. I was so happy when I finally got a perfect cut!

After cutting some stickers effortlessly, now I'm trying to figure out the right paper for my laser printer, to get good toner adhesion, as the blade can remove parts of it while cutting.

Also, I'm trying to find a carrier sheet for my project. I'm wondering how thick can it be, and if you can adjust the pinch rollers accordingly.

I did find one that is about 70 dollars (24x36 / 600x900mm), but it seems quite expensive on the long run, if you can't use it like... a thousand time, which I doubt. Especially if you run the same job every time.
Which is why I'm thinking of using a 2mm auto-healing cutting mat and adhesive for cutting mat. But I'm not sure 2mm (80 mils) + media would go through the ce6000.

What kind of adhesive cutting mat is available out there? It doesn't seem like there's much choice, especially for large format (600x900mm).

Again, thanks a lot for your support, it's been really hard on my nerves, and I would have not make it without your support and help.

[MZ SKEETER 4,711]

I don't know of any real large cutting mats, but many are sold.  They are just the Cricut cutting mats. Or mats for crafting vinyl cutters.   People buy mats on here, They are sold at UScutter..Walmart's and hobby stores. There are people who buy large rolls of paper and spray adhesive.  Glad you got it going...Make sure to calibrate your cutter to what ever software you have.  Make a 4" x 4" square and cut it.  Make sure it really measures 4" x 4" .

[mfatty500 455]

I'm glad you got it cutting properly. I like happy endings