will this work

[hiiammewhoru 0]

New here, didn't know if this is the right spot for this or not, just have a few questions about vinyl (more specidically oracel 651 purple 404)

This is going to sound weird, but:

I just recently painted a vehicle with rustoleum gloss black (don't laugh, enamel paints are what cars used to be painted with)

It's an oil based enamel

I want to get a roll of oracle 651 purple 404 and apply it as racing stripes, as well as some minor accents.

I want to know if the vinyl will stick and stay stuck to the oil based high gloss paint

 

I also wanted to clear coat over the entire car AFTER I put the vinyl down, so that the vinyl will be sealed in, and better protected using a urethane clearcoat.

Will the clearcoat stick to the vinyl?

 

ANY input into this would be greatly appreciated.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

It'll stick but if you want it to last for years I'd go with at least 751 or 951. 

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I think I would also allow appropriate time for cure on the paint and even on the vinyl. I have never had anyone clear coat over vinyl but it's plausible I think. You will get 7-10 years out of the vinyl (751 or 951)without any other treatment and could theoretically remove it and do something different later. I don't think I would clear coat over it personally. You might clear coat your black though ahead of the vinyl install. 

 

I am in no way shape or form a vehicle professional so take everything with a grain of salt! 

[smokeybearfan 87]

I've cleared over bunches of vinyl with no problem over the years.

[Cal 393]

I can't tell you what the vinyl was, as I purchased these stripes before I got into vinyl myself.  I can say, though, that i painted the car with Rustoleum, gave it a couple months to breathe and then applied the stripes and cleared over the whole car.  Going on three years now, but it is parked inside.  The rear stripe is quite wide...  Oh, and welcome to the site!

Cal

[jaybyrd 3,770]

The problem with 651 will be shrinkage over time. The clear should uv protect for the most part but calendared vinyl can shrink quite a bit over time and may can issues with the clear around the edges.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

like above let rustoleum cure for a long time - it takes it a LONG time to cure properly 

[jmas 119]

At the body shop where I work, we paint Harley parts for the local Harley shop and they often have stripes that we apply then clear over. In fact, we have one now that is a white fender with an 18 inch red and black stripe (basically a 1.4 inch wide red stripe with a 1.5 inch black outline) arched over each side of the fender. The fender was damaged and is being replaced so we're painting the new one white, then I duplicate the stripe with 751 red and black, then we'll clearcoat over it.

 

For something this small, we'll probably apply the vinyl a couple days after the fender is painted, but for a wider racing stripe we always wait a month to allow the paint to cure. This is with PPG automotive paint, I might wait a little longer with rustoleum.

[hiiammewhoru 0]

Thank you everyone for the replies! This isn't the first car I've done in rustoleum, but all have turned out great so far. The concern that I had is that the adhesive on the vinyl wouldn't stick because of the oil base, or that the vinyl would wrinkle when I hit it with the clear (urethane clear, mineral spirits reducer). I figure clearing it would provide more uv protection, as well as making it look more like it was "painted on"

So the oil base will have no effect on the adhesive.

And I shouldn't have a problem with wrinkling with the clear, though I should go with a cast vinyl over calendered to prevent shrinkage.

Has anyone ever cleared over a matte vinyl, and how does it look after, does it look like a high gloss, or does it look like crap?

 

Again thank you everyone for your input, and clhyer that looks great!

[hiiammewhoru 0]

I've been doing a little research, and have found that calendered polymeric vinyl shrinkage can be as low as 2-3%, which for my application would be acceptible. My thinking is that the clear coat will further inhibit shrinkage since it will not only protect it from uv, but also stick to it, making it "hold its shape" better. I know that an intermediate calendered vinyl is not ideal, but I am trying to work on a budget here as well. What I was wondering is if oracle 651 is polymeric or monomeric?

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Why not buy paint mask or maybe 631 to make a stencil and just paint the design on? Zero risk that way.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

 I know that an intermediate calendered vinyl is not ideal, but I am trying to work on a budget here as well. 

You are talking about what...$24 per 10yd roll of 24" difference in cost. You think you will use more than 30 or 60ft of vinyl? $24-$48 extra? Seems pretty minimal to me in the grand scheme of things. 

[hiiammewhoru 0]

Wildgoose: I'm already over budget with this car or it wouldn't make that much of a difference. This is how I make a little extra income, restore cars for customers on a budget. While $24 might not seem like a lot, it is when its compounded with all of the other costs that are eating into my little bit of profit.

 

The customer has been shown all options, including just painting on the accents, and stripes, and also knows all the potential downfalls of each option. They know that whatever option they choose will come out of their pocket, so now I'm just waiting on their response. I'm thinking that their leaning more towards paint... and I was really hoping to get to try the vinyl out too lol.

[kal259 18]

 If your clear coating an oil based enamel you should be adding hardener to it. You can clearcoat vinyl, just make sure you have no air bubbles and the edges are not peeling anywhere.

[Cal 393]

Regarding your question of clear coat over a matte vinyl, I believe that it will be glossy when you are done.  The base coat paint in bc/cc has no gloss to it.

Cal

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Regarding your question of clear coat over a matte vinyl, I believe that it will be glossy when you are done.  The base coat paint in bc/cc has no gloss to it.

Cal

Only way to avoid that gloss would be a satin clear or something similar but then the whole car would be dull.

[hiiammewhoru 0]

About the matte vinyl, I want it to be glossy when finished. I was just hoping that by using a matte vinyl it would give the clear more to "bite" into without actually having to scuff the vinyl with scotch brite.

 

Sadly the customer wants the paint because of the (though small) price difference. looks like I will be mixing up some custom purple. Luckily I have a secret weapon in my aresonal for that, and I'll even let you all in on it. Pearl-ex, you get it from arts and crafts stores. It's a pearl powder, and they have a purple that is exactly what he wants. It desolves well with acetone (just a bit to disolve it) then mix it with either white, or a lot in some clear, depending on the tone and effect you want.

 

The customer wanted a black base with a gold metal flake effect, so I showed him an example with a gold pearl in it, and he loved it. Here is half way through the paint job with the black base/gold pearl. This gold pearl has not been disolved though, it has only been mixed with mineral spirits to suspend it in the paint.

 

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/Gordon_Grams/10178104_806585406039964_7178225873496156432_n_zps2286af2f.jpg

 

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/Gordon_Grams/10343662_806584729373365_5956856071344927823_n_zpsb70be72e.jpg

[Cal 393]

Please show us more pics as work progresses and is completed.

Thanks,

Cal