Yet another "which cutter" thread

[Nitsuj 5]

I know you guys get this all the time. But I've read all the threads and I still don't know which cutter suits me. Before you ask, I don't have a set budget. I'm by no means a rich man, but I believe in paying what I have to in order to get the right tool. I also don't believe in just buying the most expensive something just to say I got the best.

First off, unlike a lot of others here, I am NOT going to be starting a business with a cutter. I have a business, I don't need/want another at the moment. But, I've found myself in need of lots of vinyl over the years and I wouldn't mind being able to handle it myself. I own a motorcycle related retail website. I'm always needing a banner or another batch of stickers. So I'm thinking I'll take the plunge and just buy an inexpensive machine for my own use. If I can make a buck or two by doing little things for friends, fine, but it's not my main motivation. I won't be hanging out a shingle or anything.

Primarily, I would need a cutter. But if I can add the ability to do printed stickers as well without a huge investment, I'd consider that as well.

What I'm having trouble with is the amazing number of options on just this site alone! SC, TC, MH, Eco, PCut etc. Then for each model, there is several size choices. I don't know what sizes I'd ever want to cut, so I assume bigger is better? Some come in a 31" other a 35" or a 30" or a 40", is there no standard? Any reason to avoid one series over another? Any reason to go with one size over another? Cost of materials etc? I realize that for pro purpose, the PRO cutters will be better. But I won't be running it 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I'm more interested in what machine is good, solid, full featured for a non pro and will be reliable and last a good long time for a hobbyist. I want an inexpensive machine, but I don't want to try to save a few bucks and miss a key desirable feature. Know what I mean?

Thanks all!

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

most will say the 24" Pcut. 24" is the standard. and definately get the stand.

A Laser Pointer is a Pcut with a laser, to make contour cutting around printed decals

[Jay2703 704]

Most will depend on your budget. In order of my preference, get the best 24" cutter you can afford?

Roland

Graphtec

Zen Cut Black

ZenCut Green

Copam

Laserpoint

Refine or PCut

Jay

[Nitsuj 5]

Thanks guys! So is it generally accepted that money is better spent for a name rather than a size? For instance, lets say I'm looking at an $800 24" cutter. For another $150 I can either get the same machine in a 32" or I can step up a model size and stick with the 24". Just trying to maximize my investment.

Most will depend on your budget. In order of my preference, get the best 24" cutter you can afford?

Like I said, no set budget. I want to spend enough to get a decent machine for low volumes but not spend as much as I'd need to start a busy sign shop. My guess is I need/want a machine right in the mid range. Trouble is, there are a lot of machines to choose from in that mid range!

Roland

Graphtec

Zen Cut Black

ZenCut Green

Copam

Laserpoint

Refine or PCut

Jay

Have you used all of those machines? Can you reccomend one over the others for a non professional shop? I assume the Roland is a great machine well worth the price, but would I take advantage of all that price buys me? I assume the PCut is a great value for the money, but will I wish I had bought more? That pretty much a list of what uscutter sells arranged by price. My guess is that anything more than the Laserpoint would be over kill for me, but I'm guessing blind because I've no used any of them, and I don't know what features you get for more money. Am I correct in guessing that I would have no need for contour cutting unless I plan to print stickers? Is the investment for getting into printed stickers small enough to figure that I may one day do that, or are we jumping into a 5 figure set up to print? If printing stickers requires a $10k professional shop set up, I can't see me ever taking that step. But if it's just a few hundred dollars for a printer, maybe I would.

Also, what kind of usage would dictate the jump up to say a 35" machine? That added cost isn't that great on any of the machines that it would deter me from making the step up, if it may be warranted.

I'm taking this seriously and I'm willing to spend what I have to because I may in the end, decide to offer customer of my other business custom cut vinyl. It wouldn't be enough to be a stand alone business, but I may be able to make a few bucks here and there making graphics and race numbers to defer the cost of the machine and make it worth owning.

Again, thanks for all the input!

[stetson5331 80]

In my op a Graphtec out runs and beats any other machine hands down..The ARMS feature alone is worth the dollars spent for the name..If you want a Graphtec built for a company under a Q series...PM me I will give you a sales persons name and number..I bought a Q series and it's as good as my Graphtec but cost considerably less price...It had Graphtec papers and blades and everything in the box..SO the company was right it's made by Graphtec for them...WORKS as good as the Graphtec I already had..

But the moral here is don't buy a China import buy a top of the line cutter so you don't wake up and go wish I would had later..Even if you don't use all the features at first..You still have those features for when you need them..

stetson5331

[Nitsuj 5]

Thanks Stetson! Graphtec is quite a jump up in price from what I had been considering. But I'm open to the suggestion. You're saying there's a Graphtec that's not listed on the site? I'm not seeing a Q series. Not sure what the ARMS is either. Sending you a PM now.

[roxanneupnorth 106]

Sadly Stetson is talking in code because he does not want to post about a competitor's product...

[Rodger 527]

I was within minutes of buying what Stetty is talking about 4 years ago . My buddy had just bought that deal ( then ... $2,500 with the Q60 , some clip art , vintl etc ) I bought 2 Copams for a total of $1200 & have been thrilled ever since , not only with the cutters but that I found USCutter before buying the Q series deal . My buddy has MAJOR buyers remorse when he came over & seen what I had made just starting out . He wished he had found USCutter & bought what I did instead of what he bought . He was COMPLETELY amazed how small of a decal with text inside I made . I won't get into it, but the actions of the other company was less than stellar / professional ( slur-fest towards USCutter ) ... while USCutter has always been very professional . Stetty is a good buddy of mine , but I dislike anybody using the USCutter forum to promote that other company .

I would look into the Zen series if i was buying a cutter right now , but would end up buying another Copma most likely .

[Nitsuj 5]

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the input. I can totally understand not wanting to recommend a competitors product on this forum. US Cutter is kind to provide their users with a place to dicuss the business. I've been reading the fourm pretty heavy and I'm thinking that for my light use the Graphtec might be a bit overkill. Not that it isn't a great machine, I'm sure it is. But I'm not going to be starting a full sigh shop. Its just going to be a supplement to my business. I can't justify the expense of the Graphtec. Based on my reading and my intended usage, I'm betting the PCut ot Laser is what I'm looking for. If it turns out down the road that I need more machine, I'll get a Pro type cutter and sell the lower end model or keep it as a backup.

I do still have to pick a size though!

[roxanneupnorth 106]

How many dollars in sales do you think you need to make to justify the Graphtec?....Sell 3,000.00 in work and it is paid for with money left over...And you will have a great machine....

[Rodger 527]

24" is good for most everything . If you want to do bigger you cut in " tiles " & make the decal in 2' sections . Much easier to appply also .

[Rodger 527]

How many dollars in sales do you think you need to make to justify the Graphtec?....Sell 3,000.00 in work and it is paid for with money left over...And you will have a great machine....

Awe , You & Stetty with those Graphtecs ....

[roxanneupnorth 106]

Actually my preference is a Summa.....But there has to be a second best......

[Rodger 527]

Is the Gerbers as good as claimed ?

[vinylmotivations 143]

I think when you start talking Gerber you start talking more $$ than your average person has lol.... LOL. Summa makes a really nice cutter from what I have read but never saw one in action. There was a used 30" Summa on Ebay a while back for about 2k.

I ended up buying a CE5000, even though I wanted the FC8000-120.

[vinylmotivations 143]

It also seems like Graphtec cutters hold their value well too.

[roxanneupnorth 106]

Holding value only matters if you are selling used equipment....

[Jay2703 704]

I have not used all of them but I started with the PCut and moved up to a GCC (ZenCuts are rebranded GCC machines) I have friends withLaserPoints and Refines so I have experience with both of them. My reasoning behind the order is more than price. The quality and functionality just happens to follow pretty close. Both the Refine and Pcut are just basic entry level machines with about the same capabilities and limitations. Neither are extremely accurate but will do what they were meant for. You will have trouble doing very fine detail and extremely long cuts with either of them. The laserPoint is just a PCut that has the ability to contour cut. (Cut around the periphery of a printed image using alignment marks) That is why I put it above the Refine and Pcut. If you don’t need that capability it’s probably not worth the extra money. You mentioned having “the ability to do printed stickers as well without a huge investment” a LaserPoint along with an inexpensive printer would give you that ability. Ihave not used a Copam but from the info on this forum I know it is a better made machine that the Pcut and Refine series and is more accurate that the rest. All of the cutters I have mentioned so far utilize incremental or stepper motors as their drive systems. The rest utilize Servo motors. Stepper motors have a finite number of stop points per revolution and therefore will never be as accurate as Servo machines that have infinite number of stop points. The ZenCut’s, Graphtec’s and Roland’s all have Contour Cut capability and the major difference will be speed, downforce accuracy and build quality. Oh yeah, price too.

[roxanneupnorth 106]

Good post Jay.....

[Nitsuj 5]

Tons of info, thanks guys! You really have me on the fence about the Graphtec. I have a few questions. Ok, so the Graphtec, (and the competitors equivalent) are great machines. Can I save a few bucks and get the CE series Graphtec and still get a good machine, or do I need to pony up the bucks for the FC series?

Rox, you pose an interesting question. And it's one I don't have an answer for. I don't know how much money I plan to make with it, it could be very little, so I'm approaching it as if I may make zero and I'm just buying it for me. My business isn't related to signs very much. This would just be a supplement. It may do well, or it may end up just being a hobby type thing. Hence my delima with stepping up from a hobby type machine to a "pro" machine.

Next question, the media basket. It looks handy. Is it? Then reason I ask is that some machines come with it, some don't. But the Graphtec wants $400 some odd bucks for it. I'm vastly ignorant on the subject, but it really doesn't look like $400 of anything. It sort of looks like a cloth bag hanging on metal rods.

One more question, and please forgive me if it's a dumb question: Is it worth looking for a deal? Lime a demo, or factory refurb, or even a used machine? I know it sounds cheap, but if I just spent a few grand every time I had a whim and never looked for a deal, I'd be broke! ;-)

Thanks againg for all the help!

[Jay2703 704]

Tons of info, thanks guys! You really have me on the fence about the Graphtec. I have a few questions. Ok, so the Graphtec, (and the competitors equivalent) are great machines. Can I save a few bucks and get the CE series Graphtec and still get a good machine, or do I need to pony up the bucks for the FC series?

Rox, you pose an interesting question. And it's one I don't have an answer for. I don't know how much money I plan to make with it, it could be very little, so I'm approaching it as if I may make zero and I'm just buying it for me. My business isn't related to signs very much. This would just be a supplement. It may do well, or it may end up just being a hobby type thing. Hence my delima with stepping up from a hobby type machine to a "pro" machine.

Next question, the media basket. It looks handy. Is it? Then reason I ask is that some machines come with it, some don't. But the Graphtec wants $400 some odd bucks for it. I'm vastly ignorant on the subject, but it really doesn't look like $400 of anything. It sort of looks like a cloth bag hanging on metal rods.

One more question, and please forgive me if it's a dumb question: Is it worth looking for a deal? Lime a demo, or factory refurb, or even a used machine? I know it sounds cheap, but if I just spent a few grand every time I had a whim and never looked for a deal, I'd be broke! ;-)

Thanks againg for all the help!

You can always start with a hobby machine and if the money is there, step up to a better model. I started with a PCut just as a hobby. It paid for itself within 3 months without even trying. My daughters gymnastics place had me do a few banners, a neighbor with an auto repair shop did the same. My cutter was paid for. As for ooking for a deal, watch Craigslist or this forum. There are deas to be found.

[Rodger 527]

Also you can call USCutter & ask for a demo model , return etc . Any return would have been gone thru 7 checked out completely & would be better than a new cutter untested in a box IMO . 1 member posted they got a demo Zen black for $1.000 ( - $500 ) . I am sure you would be just as satisfied as I have been with a Copam . My situation was similiar to yours starting out .

[Nitsuj 5]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm still unsure, but it's becoming more clear! Should I decide to go the hobby cutter route, can you give me an example of the limitations? I understand the difference between the servo and stepper motors. But from a practical standpoint, what difference will it make in my product?

[roxanneupnorth 106]

Servo cuts smoother and some have "Tangential Cornering- the blade will LIFT UP, turn and drop back down around corners. This makes for very clean corner cuts."......Zen Cut Black for example....

[Jay2703 704]

Any of the Servo machines will do much better at fine detail. Weeding will be much easier because your cuts will connect better. They are faster and quieter.