WARNING TO EVERYONE!!!!

[desertdog10 0]

That's insane!   I agree that they should find something else to worry about.  I was thinking about this- I get some logos from www.brandsoftheworld.com and before you can download the logo, you have to check a box that says something to the affect:  "By checking this, I am authorized to use this logo/image"..   I wonder if the same could apply for someone buying from us and have this "validation" on our websites?  

-Jeff

[Guest kenya]

+1

[Mr Peabody 0]

From Mrs. Peabody - I guess I am in "what would a reasonable person do" mode..  I think that you can explain to your attorney that she indicated that the company was sponsoring her (and therefore thought she had the "rights" to the logo) and ASKED YOU to make it but wanted you to do a size that was not otherwise available to her.  I would also ask my attorney if the company was able to prove that they "suffered any loss" from their company name (free advertisement) being on the car?  I would think, too, that if she asked for it and indicated the sponsorship, she should be there to give deposition or some sort of testimony.  I would also explain that it is not something you "offer or mass produce" and that you in no way altered it (like pairing it with something obscene) so it was not meant to be derogatory or cause them harm (nor did you profit that much).  

At some point it gets ridiculous - if I am upset with our telephone provider - can I tell you about it but not use their name?  I wonder if Kleenex ever gets upset that that is what most of us call a "facial tissue".  

I do needlework and have noticed that if you buy a pattern of say, a Thomas Kinkade painting or a Bible verse - it usually indicates that it is not for commercial use or to "decorate articles which will thereafter be sold" - so thought if it was a gift or for personal enjoyment/decoration it was OK.

Maybe I should tell the Levi people I want the label removed - I don't want anyone to think that they made my butt! - unless they owe me some money for advertising....hmmm.

Just a thought - there are far too many law suits that seem so unimportant when you look at all the real problems the court needs to pay attention to - like you being able to take care of your grandchild.

Sorry it is costing you anything and just imagine what they are paying their attorneys (hence the amount of the damages).

and Mr. Peabody is sorry for what you are going through too.

[laras4labs 4]

Basically this letter that was attached to the lawsuit paperwork says:

The Black and Decker Corporation is the owner of many valuable trademarks, among other intellectual property.  Black and Decker has invested vast resources to establish its intellectual property portfolio and the goodwill associated therein.  These marks and the Black and Decker brands that they represent are famous throughout the world.  Continental Enterprises has been engaged by Black and Decker to help protect its valuable intellectual property.

Continental has learned that you are involved in the distribution of merchandise violating the intellectual property rights of Black and Decker.  The merchandise bears brands that are either identical to or clear imitations or derivations of Black and Decker

[laras4labs 4]

From Mrs. Peabody - I guess I am in "what would a reasonable person do" mode..  I think that you can explain to your attorney that she indicated that the company was sponsoring her (and therefore thought she had the "rights" to the logo) and ASKED YOU to make it but wanted you to do a size that was not otherwise available to her.  I would also ask my attorney if the company was able to prove that they "suffered any loss" from their company name (free advertisement) being on the car?  I would think, too, that if she asked for it and indicated the sponsorship, she should be there to give deposition or some sort of testimony.  I would also explain that it is not something you "offer or mass produce" and that you in no way altered it (like pairing it with something obscene) so it was not meant to be derogatory or cause them harm (nor did you profit that much).  

At some point it gets ridiculous - if I am upset with our telephone provider - can I tell you about it but not use their name?  I wonder if Kleenex ever gets upset that that is what most of us call a "facial tissue".  

I do needlework and have noticed that if you buy a pattern of say, a Thomas Kinkade painting or a Bible verse - it usually indicates that it is not for commercial use or to "decorate articles which will thereafter be sold" - so thought if it was a gift or for personal enjoyment/decoration it was OK.

Maybe I should tell the Levi people I want the label removed - I don't want anyone to think that they made my butt! - unless they owe me some money for advertising....hmmm.

Just a thought - there are far too many law suits that seem so unimportant when you look at all the real problems the court needs to pay attention to - like you being able to take care of your grandchild.

Sorry it is costing you anything and just imagine what they are paying their attorneys (hence the amount of the damages).

and Mr. Peabody is sorry for what you are going through too.

You are so right. Thank you 

[tlzimmerman 11]

Yeah, I think you might be ok really just thinking about it here, as long as she engaged you to create the decal, and represented that they were a sponsor so that they would have had the rights to use the trademark. 

Please if you can keep us informed about how this goes with your lawyer tomorrow, to me you are in the right because of how it went down, now if you were or are just selling black and decker or dewalt decals to anyone in the public, yeah you are screwed, but you werent and I think you have a case, at least in my opinion.  If I was a juror thats how I would see it.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Hmmmm, I would say you have a case if she misrepressented herself.  I wonder if there is something like they would have to show proof of sponsorship before you would do the decal, I suppose taking ones word that they are affiliated with someone would get your in trouble though.  Not sure exactly.

Did it say copyright on the papers or did it reference trademark?  I don't see how this would fall under copyright law at all, seems more like a trademark case. 

I know its probably not good to put this in a public forum but I would love to see what exactly the letter said in regards to what you did wrong.

It is called criminal impersonation and it is illegal to represent yourself to be someone you are not, unless you are an officer of the law.

They are hoping you will cave and pay...I say fight it. They will offer to settle very quickly.

Here is teh law in Colorado,it is probably the same or similar in your state:

(1) A person commits criminal impersonation if he knowingly assumes a false or fictitious identity or capacity, and in such identity or capacity he:

(d) Does an act which if done by the person falsely impersonated, might subject such person to an action or special proceeding, civil or criminal, or to liability, charge, forfeiture, or penalty; or

(e) Does any other act with intent to unlawfully gain a benefit for himself or another or to injure or defraud another.

(2) Criminal impersonation is a class 6 felony.

[ms_sign 5]

Fox Racing logos are quite popular and alot of people have those on their cars and trucks, so I am sure that is next.

I have two C and D's to prove that.  

and that was 8 years ago.

Be carful of who you cut for.  

Jon

[tlzimmerman 11]

Hmmmm, I would say you have a case if she misrepressented herself.  I wonder if there is something like they would have to show proof of sponsorship before you would do the decal, I suppose taking ones word that they are affiliated with someone would get your in trouble though.  Not sure exactly.

Did it say copyright on the papers or did it reference trademark?  I don't see how this would fall under copyright law at all, seems more like a trademark case. 

I know its probably not good to put this in a public forum but I would love to see what exactly the letter said in regards to what you did wrong.

It is called criminal impersonation and it is illegal to represent yourself to be someone you are not, unless you are an officer of the law.

They are hoping you will cave and pay...I say fight it. They will offer to settle very quickly.

Yep...thats kinda my interpretation as well.

[sdgirl 13]

I am sorry to hear about what is happening to you. I was also wondering why you didn't get a cease warning letter first. I would also like to know how this pans out also. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I have a buddy in the sign business that I was just talking with today. He has a company that wants him to make a sign and they have a copyright on their logo but gave him a letter of permission to make the sign for them.

Christi

[JoeCamaro 11]

Im sorry to red this and a the same time it makes em nervous. I sell at a flea market and I do decals on the spot. I have brand logos, but I dont have them on the book, only in the computer, I cut them if I get asked for them.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

I am sorry to hear about what is happening to you. I was also wondering why you didn't get a cease warning letter first. I would also like to know how this pans out also. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I have a buddy in the sign business that I was just talking with today. He has a company that wants him to make a sign and they have a copyright on their logo but gave him a letter of permission to make the sign for them.

Christi

I sell mainly online and I always ask if they have the right to use the logo. As far as I am concerned, the email that they send saying that they do is all I need to protect me.

Of course, I don't do that many. Most people realize that the logo gtakes up space and minimizes the space left for the actual message.

[sdgirl 13]

I am sorry to hear about what is happening to you. I was also wondering why you didn't get a cease warning letter first. I would also like to know how this pans out also. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I have a buddy in the sign business that I was just talking with today. He has a company that wants him to make a sign and they have a copyright on their logo but gave him a letter of permission to make the sign for them.

Christi

I sell mainly online and I always ask if they have the right to use the logo. As far as I am concerned, the email that they send saying that they do is all I need to protect me.

Of course, I don't do that many. Most people realize that the logo gtakes up space and minimizes the space left for the actual message.

Your right John being that you ask and getting an email stating it is great.I just mentioned that about my friend because I never heard of that before and then I come home and read this.

Christi

[laras4labs 4]

I will let you guys know what my lawyer comes up with and keep everyone posted, especially with the misrepresentation part of the deal.  One thing that I might be screwed on is the fact that on the receipt I itemized every piece of vinyl that I put on that car.  I did a barbed wire design with blood drips, drivers name 2 layers, crew names, door numbers for each door in 4 layers, 1 number for the fuel cell 4 layers, one for the front nose piece 4 layers, the dewalt sticker, a flaming lizard for each door, various stripes, and I itemized each item and only charged .95 cents for the dewalt decal. I did that because she wanted a detailed invoice because according to her, several people were helping her pay for the lettering. SUCKER!!  It's pasted right across my forehead.  My boyfriend just noticed that on the file in Illy, I didn't exactly replicate the decal.  The dewalt logo has a stripe across the top and one across the bottom.  My file in Illy only has the stripe across the top.  Maybe that will help me.

[laras4labs 4]

I'm also gonna write up some sort of disclaimer for us all to use and have my lawyer check it.  Could save us all some hassels on down the road.  I'll post it after he checks it.  All of your suggestions are great!!

[Guest fivestar]

Holy cow, hell whenever I do a racecar and someone wants a "sponsor" on their car that I can't find I email the company and they send it over already in cuttable format.  I believe you won't get anything out of this as I am "almost certain" they have to send a C&D order first.

[Alien 11]

Several in my area have been busted by Harley D. They have someone come through the flea markets regularly. All they did was send a C&D. Sorry to hear of your troubles lara4labs.

[kctrader 10]

Depending on what the lawyer has to say, I think I'd ask about a suit against your customer.  I know I'd make sure everyone at the race track knew who it was that is making it impossible for them to get their car logos.

[bayshorecreations 30]

You know whats funny about this, I worked in the commercial printing industry for a loooooong time. We would print anything on paper, we had lots of accounts like say R&S Strouse who we would print their store circulars for and in those were all of the logo's like AC Delco and Turtle Wax, etc. Now I am sure that R&S has the rights to use those logos but what if they didnt? Would one of those companies have been able to sue the printer for printing that? I would think that they would go after R&S in this case for using the logos in their ad's.

Anyway, I would think that some kind of disclaimer would be a good thing to have on your paperwork to have the customer sign. But now here is another question... Do we make up a disclaimer sheet to have them sign before accepting the job at all or do we have them sign it at time of delivery? I would think beforehand would be wise and call it a waiver or something like that.

[James605 7]

Lara, sorry to hear about this. As far as the disclaimer thing. I asked my lawyer about things like this site fastdecals.com  They sell all kinds of disney stuff. abotu everything is copyrighted. here is their disclaimer

Note: FastDecals.com does not have an affiliation or agreement with any displayed companies, nor the authority to reproduce their logos.  Any company or product logos displayed on this site are the property and/or registered trademarks of their respective owners, and are provided as a convenience only for their lawful use by owners, dealers, agents, resellers, and sponsorship recipients. It is the expressed intent of FastDecals.com that lawful reproduction of the aforementioned designs shall be the sole responsibility of the purchaser.  Purchase of any product from FastDecals.com is not authorization for the use of any specific logo or trademark.  By clicking the "Add to Cart" button you convey to FastDecals.com you have authority (if required) to use the above artwork.  Please see this page for more details on this FREE ADVERTISING PROGRAM.  If your company logo is listed on this site and you would like it to be removed, please send an email with details for a prompt resolution.

My lawyer said they are just setting themselves up for something bad. He said they put that there because they know its illegal and the companys will use that against them. He said you would be better off not putting anything like that and just stop when you get the c and d letter... I guess its up to the person. I know i have been watching this website for going on 2 years i would say. Looks like they have not had any problems yet...Luck might have something to do with it...

Theres my 2 pennies

[sarconastic 29]

Just an information thing for everyone on here. Continental Enterprises is a corporate entrapment agency in my opinion. They appear to specialize in Software copyright infringement and Trademark infringement. I received a letter from my ISP a short while ago. I wanted to try out Illustrator before i dropped a load on it. I didn't want the newest greatest version (too darn expensive) so I found a torrent online and 'Supposedly' downloaded a copyrighted copy, not a trial. The letter was a Cease and desist order, routed through my ISP. My ISP wouldn't give them my name so they just send out the letter, and ask you to stop sharing it. I didn't know I was sharing it. I thought I had the sharing program share shut off. Stupid me. But anyway, I called my ISp and they told this happens a lot, but they wouldn't do anything except shut my account off if they received more complaints from the company.

I later found out, this company is the one sharing the torrents. They are creating, seeding and tracking the torrents to get people busted. Some ISP's do share the user name and those people were going to court for $10K a copy. Usually settling for $2K.

ALso check out this address,

http://tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/CyberCops/ContinentalEnterprises/ContinentalEnterprises.shtml

There are dozens more out there.

I think it's big time entrapment and there should be some enforcement involved here. If the person that represented that they had that sponsor then it is their problem not the cutters. They mis-represented their legal right (fair use) to use and display the logo. And no the person that came to your door was not a law enforcement officer, they were hired by continental.

Don;t offer to settle or admit a dang thing, fight em.

Or do what your attorney tells you, I'm a PO'd idiot  

Good luck

Kevin

Counter sue their A$$es for entrapment and tell them to go to He77.

[tory 0]

I put a disclaimer on the bottom of all my invoices. I recently did an embroidery job for a company that sells items at 2 of the popular home improvement stores. He wanted me to make caps for both companies to give out to their employees. I was nervous about copyrights/trademarks and he assured me he had permission. I still put a disclaimer at the bottom of my invoice to protect myself.  When I later asked a lawyer about this he stated what James also found out. We, as sellers, are supposed to know all about infringements and the disclaimer would not hold up in court. I also feel Lara was railroaded, doesn't seem like that can ask you to do a job with the intention of busting you after the fact. It wasn't as if she was selling decals at the local flea market. Good Luck tomorrow, unfortunately whatever the outcome you will still have attorney fees.

Tory

[Rodger 527]

My take is that 2 wrongs don't make 1 right . Does not matter if somebody illegally entrapped anybody , " said " they had the right to use or you have a disclainer signed etc . End result is you have to have the proper right to use some things or things like this can happen . Receipts are BAD , cash is good  , but even that isn't fail proof . I hope you get out of the jamb Lara   . I doupt any judge would award what they are asking , but the expense defending the case might be more than a settlement .

[midwaste 4]

Just an information thing for everyone on here. Continental Enterprises is a corporate entrapment agency in my opinion. They appear to specialize in Software copyright infringement and Trademark infringement. I received a letter from my ISP a short while ago. I wanted to try out Illustrator before i dropped a load on it. I didn't want the newest greatest version (too darn expensive) so I found a torrent online and 'Supposedly' downloaded a copyrighted copy, not a trial. The letter was a Cease and desist order, routed through my ISP. My ISP wouldn't give them my name so they just send out the letter, and ask you to stop sharing it. I didn't know I was sharing it. I thought I had the sharing program share shut off. Stupid me. But anyway, I called my ISp and they told this happens a lot, but they wouldn't do anything except shut my account off if they received more complaints from the company.

I later found out, this company is the one sharing the torrents. They are creating, seeding and tracking the torrents to get people busted. Some ISP's do share the user name and those people were going to court for $10K a copy. Usually settling for $2K.

ALso check out this address,

http://tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/CyberCops/ContinentalEnterprises/ContinentalEnterprises.shtml

There are dozens more out there.

I think it's big time entrapment and there should be some enforcement involved here. If the person that represented that they had that sponsor then it is their problem not the cutters. They mis-represented their legal right (fair use) to use and display the logo. And no the person that came to your door was not a law enforcement officer, they were hired by continental.

Don;t offer to settle or admit a dang thing, fight em.

Or do what your attorney tells you, I'm a PO'd idiot  

Good luck

Kevin

Counter sue their A$$es for entrapment and tell them to go to He77.

^^This.  This whole thing is a complete scam.  There's no way in hell any judge would believe they are entitled to $4750 for a few decals cut under circumstances that you believed were legit.  However, I believe you are responsible for validating proper usage rights when selling a copyrighted image.

B+D/Dewalt would have sent you at least one C+D before actually threatening legal action, and there is absolutely no chance they would pursue such a trivial copyright claim.

That being said, have your lawyer draft a sternly worded letter threatening a counter-suit and dismissing their damage claims as ludicrous, and I'll bet you never hear from them again.

Sounds like gypsys to me...

Edit:  This is my 666th post, so it must be true!   

[laras4labs 4]

You all are great!  Thank you for researching this stuff for me.  I never got any c&d from anyone and I am also thinking this is a scam.  It will be worth the attorney fees to slap this company in the face.  I have always been sceptical about harley, fox racing and any nascar drivers, but who knew on dewalt.  I will let you know what my attorney says today. This ought to be interesting. 

Thanks everyone!  I'll talk to you soon.