Kristof

Help!! Magnet cutting, machine hard to calibrate

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Hello, I received a new Titan 2 - 28" model a few weeks ago for the sole purpose of cutting adhesive-backed 30 mil thick magnet. I have been having trouble, however, trying to calibrate the machine; cuts are not square (start and end points don't match up), and the dimensions are wrong of the cut. Example: 235mm dimensions comes out as 230mm.

I'm using Sure Cuts a Lot 4 Pro and have played with the calibration settings to resolve the dimension issues; it works sometimes but is inconsistent from job to job and I am wasting a lot of material by doing this.

I've done jobs pulling off of the roll directly AND by pulling some off of the roll manually, so the machine isn't trying to pull from a 70 lb. roll of material. I would like to say that pulling from the roll directly is not good as we can all agree on, but either way it doesn't resolve the issue entirely of the start and end points not lining up when I unroll the material manually before each job.

The cut jobs are DXF files generated by Autodesk and I've verified the files are spot on in dimension with multiple programs and they are correct in Sure Cuts a Lot 4 Pro.

I'm using a new CleanCut Roland Metal 60º carbide blade and am using the stated offset that was on the box of the blade, 0.5mm. http://cleancutblade.mybigcommerce.com/roland-60-metal/ I have overcut set to 0.5mm.

My cut speed is 12mm/s and pressure at 300grams.

Do I need an infeed and outfeed table that is horizontal with the cutting bar plane?

At this point I'm stressed out and not sure what to do as this was a big investment to eliminate manual cutting, material waste and so I could offer custom shapes for my customers.

I appreciate the help and hope I don't have to return the machine.

I've attached a pic below showing two magnets that show the non-square cut issue of the start and end points not lining up.

IMG_3544.jpg

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I have never cut magnet,  but I have read that most people who cut thick materials are cutting with 2-3 passes. Are you doing that? Or just trying to cut with 1 deep pass? 

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55 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

I have never cut magnet,  but I have read that most people who cut thick materials are cutting with 2-3 passes. Are you doing that? Or just trying to cut with 1 deep pass? 

I am not understanding how the amount of passes would correct the dimensions and the non square cuts that I am trying to solve?

Can you enlighten me?

Thank you so much for helping!

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1 minute ago, klcjr said:

I am not understanding how the amount of passes would correct the dimensions and the non square cuts that I am trying to solve?

Can you enlighten me?

Thank you so much for helping!

trying to cut the very thick material in one pass causes more drag than if done in multiple passes - that causes slippage.   I too never subjected any of my plotters to cutting 30 mil magnets - for rectangles I used straight edge and a corner rounding tool.

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14 minutes ago, Dakotagrafx said:

trying to cut the very thick material in one pass causes more drag than if done in multiple passes - that causes slippage.   I too never subjected any of my plotters to cutting 30 mil magnets - for rectangles I used straight edge and a corner rounding tool.

How does multiple passes work exactly? Does the solenoid somehow increase the depth on each subsequent pass? Otherwise, I don't understand how this works.

I will gladly try multiple passes if you can explain how the feature works.

The magnet material is loaded into the plotter with the 3M kraft paper (adhesive liner) facing up due to the way the magnet material is rolled.

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When there's a heavy drag, tracking gets to be more tricky.

If i have to do layers - like reflective on vinyl because I want to be able to peel it the reflective off easily, I always do multiple passes - the force is lighter so there's less drag on the material when it's moving, less chance for the tracking to go askew.

And do you have rollers on the part that's being cut, as well as the 'outside material' because once there is definitive cut through your material, only the part that being pinched by roller will want to jog back and forth, there by adding to drag. If you were trying to do with paper, the paper would bunch. That's why machines like the Cricut need to have 'carrier' sheets that have a light adhesive - it keeps everything moving as a single piece, even though it's cut so stuff doesn't bunch or get caught.

You're basically cutting something that's 12x thicker than 651 vinyl, which is done in a single pass. I wouldn't even attempt to do a 30mil anything in a single pass.

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36 minutes ago, haumana said:

When there's a heavy drag, tracking gets to be more tricky.

If i have to do layers - like reflective on vinyl because I want to be able to peel it the reflective off easily, I always do multiple passes - the force is lighter so there's less drag on the material when it's moving, less chance for the tracking to go askew.

And do you have rollers on the part that's being cut, as well as the 'outside material' because once there is definitive cut through your material, only the part that being pinched by roller will want to jog back and forth, there by adding to drag. If you were trying to do with paper, the paper would bunch. That's why machines like the Cricut need to have 'carrier' sheets that have a light adhesive - it keeps everything moving as a single piece, even though it's cut so stuff doesn't bunch or get caught.

You're basically cutting something that's 12x thicker than 651 vinyl, which is done in a single pass. I wouldn't even attempt to do a 30mil anything in a single pass.

I still don't understand what 'multiple passes' means if the bladeholder solenoid is either fully up or fully down.

The pinch rollers are also fully covering the material, cut and not-cut. I'm also not fully cutting through the material either.

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10 minutes ago, klcjr said:

I still don't understand what 'multiple passes' means if the bladeholder solenoid is either fully up or fully down.

The pinch rollers are also fully covering the material, cut and not-cut. I'm also not fully cutting through the material either.

do what you will -- - it is your project and your plotter - 3 people with years of experience are just trying to help - either you try the suggestion or you don't, really doesn't matter to me.
Good luck with the project, maybe someone will give you the answer you are looking for

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1 minute ago, Dakotagrafx said:

do what you will -- - it is your project and your plotter - 3 people with years of experience are just trying to help - either you try the suggestion or you don't, really doesn't matter to me.
Good luck with the project, maybe someone will give you the answer you are looking for

I don't understand what you're saying? I asked a question asking how the multiple passes physically works? If the blade is either fully down or fully up, how exactly does multiple passes work?

If the blade advances let's say 200 microns down each pass, this would be understandable to me as it's taking less of a 'bite' of the material per pass and is how other types of machines with a Z axis work. (CNC background)

Sorry if I sounded confusing

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It cuts the same design 2 or 3 times more, just like it did the 1st time.   you choose the number of passes in your cutting software.  Each pass will cut deeper.   But like stated above.  I would never run 30 mil magnet thru my Graphtec and I have a heavy duty FC unit.   Good luck with your project. 

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11 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

It cuts the same design 2 or 3 times more, just like it did the 1st time.   you choose the number of passes in your cutting software.  Each pass will cut deeper.   But like stated above.  I would never run 30 mil magnet thru my Graphtec and I have a heavy duty FC unit.   Good luck with your project. 

What do you mean by good luck? 30 mil is within the capabilities as was told by the salesman and why they recommended a servo drive.

Again, it doesn't seem like my question was answered: how exactly does the solenoid control the depth on each subsequent pass? From my understanding, a solenoid is either fully up or fully down?

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Good luck?  I hope you don't tear up your cutter.   We can only give you valuable information from years of being on this forum. Years of what has worked, you can see the postings, if you take the time to read.  I have been on here since 2008 as well as many other old timers, We have read almost every post. We know what others have experienced and what has worked. They have posted it.  

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2 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Good luck?  I hope you don't tear up your cutter.   We can only give you valuable information from years of being on this forum. Years of what has worked, you can see the postings, if you take the time to read.  I have been on here since 2008 as well as many other old timers, We have read almost every post. We know what others have experienced and worked. They have posted it.   How is that 1 pass working for you? 

I have not found anyone who has asked the same thing that I have posted. Most posts for help on this forum don't include the detail of information I provided, because I have read a large amount on the forum before feeling the need to register as to not waste anyone's time.

I guess no one in this thread can answer my technical question about how the cutting holder actually works. Short of taking the blue cover off of the carriage, I thought an expert on here would know.

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It has been posted many,many times on here about making multiple passes.   It's not just magnet material.  It's sticky flock.  glitter HTV material, carbon fiber,  reflective and many other thick materials.   According to the UScutter buying guide, your not even supposed to cut  high intensity reflective that is over 23 mil,  but people do it and do it with 2 or more passes. But their taking that chance of tearing up their machine doing it. 

Here is the buying guide.  You don't see magnet on the buying guide. 

https://www.uscutter.com/index/page/static/subpage/buying_guides_new

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7 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

It has been posted many times on here about making multiple passes.   It's not just magnet material.  It's sticky flock.  glitter HTV material, carbon fiber,  reflective and many other thick materials.   According to the UScutter buying guide, your not even supposed to cut  high intensity reflective that is over 23 mil,  but people do it and do it with 2 or more passes. 

Here is the buying guide.  You don't see magnet on the buying guide. 

https://www.uscutter.com/index/page/static/subpage/buying_guides_new

My apologies if it sounded like I wasn't taking advice or haven't tried to search before posting. I am definitely going to try multiple passes! :)

As a machine designer, I was merely curious how the plotter actually advances the depth of the blade on each pass. From my prior knowledge, I think this can only be accomplished with a leadscrew and motor.

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a salesman is going to tell you what you want to hear - very few of the salesmen have actual experience with the plotters other than a short demo after they are hired off the street.  30 mil magnet material is more dense than something like 30 mil sandblast resist - 

if you call support or sales ask if THEY have ever cut 30 mil magnet personally . . . .

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45 minutes ago, Dakotagrafx said:

a salesman is going to tell you what you want to hear - very few of the salesmen have actual experience with the plotters other than a short demo after they are hired off the street.  30 mil magnet material is more dense than something like 30 mil sandblast resist - 

if you call support or sales ask if THEY have ever cut 30 mil magnet personally . . . .

The salesman said he wouldn't recommend cutting material over 45 mil with it. He also said I would get a hassle-free money back if I had any issues.

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Send it back.

Magnet material is a bitch to cut with these vinyl slicing & dicing machines.

Not recommended. At all.

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The solenoid doesn't control how deep the cut is, it controls the pressure applied to the blade. The length of blade sticking out of the blade holder controls how deep the cut is. 

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Keep in mind everyone on this USER FORUM are volunteering to be here including the Mods - just users with lots of real world experience and not employees.  Most of us have been here thru employee changes every few years (usually 2-3)  Redmond/seattle is in the middle of  microsoft,  att, boeing, amazon etc - so employees get a little seat time and move up to bigger companies regularly from our observation.   none of us have a job to protect or a vested interest - just a love for what we do and helping others.

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11 hours ago, slice&dice said:

Send it back.

Magnet material is a bitch to cut with these vinyl slicing & dicing machines.

Not recommended. At all.

What should I buy then? I can't seem to locate the manual wall mounted slicers that are used for glass cutting in picture frame stores, etc.

I don't think we can afford a flatbed cutter; what other alternatives can I use? We have to cut circles, etc.

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