Corn hole game boards and decals

[boggey090 1]

I have noticed that many people are building and selling corn hole game boards for sale.  Most of the game boards are decorated with decals of NFL logos or other popular logos on the market. Isn't this illegal?  How are these people getting away with imposing on copy righted logos? 

 

I also want to build corn hole game boards and I can cut my own decals, but I sure don't want legal issues.  Your thoughts and advice apprecitated.

 

boggey090  

[slice&dice 2,450]

"Isn't this illegal?"

 

yes.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

https://www.nfl.info/NFLConsProd/Welcome/CpPrequalify.htm

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Damn, I was wondering when they were gonna ask for your first born son then I read the list of things they won't license for. Basically everything I would of thought of.

[Nudisuzuki 8]

They just havent gotten caught yet, theres plenty of cool things you can do without copying logo's and such! Go ahead and build them

[boggey090 1]

dakotagrafx, thanks for the information, I am fairly new at decal cutting primarily for friends within the RC Model Airplane club.  I cut wing numbers and military stars and stuff like that.  Again thanks!

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

just passing the info - people will take chances where money is to be made - some just don't seem like it to me.  remember them going after all the people a couple of years ago with Who's Dat shirts and decals - 

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Rob enough banks and eventually you'll get caught, that's how copyright and trademark seem to work. You do it enough someone will catch you.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

some will actually give you permission to reproduce - it usually isn't the big names you want to make the big bucks on - recently got the ok on an old evenrude design from the 50-60's from bombardier the new ownders of evenrude.  I am sure they might not be as accomodating with their newer logos though

[knockonwood 10]

Its legal for personal use but if you make money off their logo they want to make money also. I was researching about how to get a license to sell Georgia Tech stuff and it's $500-$6000 for the license the depending on the items you make and sell. 

[Jay2703 704]

Not even legal for personal use. Still copyright infringement.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I don't understand the thinking that personal use makes it legal. Read it here all the time and have never seen it written in anyone's terms of use.

[boggey090 1]

I live in Peoria, AZ about 3 miles from Luke, AFB and about a mile from the base there was an old school parked off the road for about 3 months.  Anyway, the bus was covered with decals all over it and the was a sign outside the advertised, "Decals made here."  I decided to stop and see what they had and what they used to vector.  They had NFL logos, car and truck, you name it.  They start on the coast in California and work their way to Mesa, AZ hitting RV parking spots like Quartzsite, AZ.  Snowbirds flock by the thousands during the winter and these guys hit the swap meets they have there.  The guy told me that if the Logo was changed by 10% it was legal, then yesterday at the RC Model field where I fly at- a man who is in business sllk screening and decal cutting told me the same thing.  He also said that if used for personal  it was OK but if the decals with logos were sold it was ilegal. I would think that it is copyrighted and not your design, well it doesn't belong to you.  I will research this topic and post my findings.  Thanks everyone for your postings.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I would ask them what law school they went to because they need to revoke that diploma. I don't pretend to know all about copyright but I will say this if it goes in front of a judge it is up to the judge's interpretation as to whether it reminds him of the copyright in question and there is no set percentage deviation. And I have never seen anything about personal use being legal and I've read every link anyone has posted on the topic here plus did a little research on my own. If in doubt call a lawyer before they call you.

[boggey090 1]

Jaybird, I am with you copy right is copy right.......Nike belongs to Nike, period.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Exactly and there will always be fly by nights doing this stuff for a quick buck but it's kinda a sad when a professional like the screenprinter mentioned take such a dim view of the law and try to guide people into something that is clearly illigay.

[Monkey 252]

After reading the will not license for list....whats left? lol

 

I am guilty of making myself stuff sometimes. Dont judge me lol

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I got called out for something in a picture I posted awhile back. Nobody's perfect.

[dennismc42 12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

When it comes to copyright, it is not always black and white. There is no exceptions for personal use per se' 

The closest one would come to this in a personal area would fall under fair use and even then, it could be tough.
 

Now if you use a logo to create a  parody and not solely the logo itself, you may have a case of fair use. BUT unless you have the time and the means to defend that stance, it is not worth it once you receive the C&D letter, as they will win just in time and cost.

Being a professional photographer copyright is something that is dealt with very thoroughly.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

They don't need to win to bankrupt you trying to defend yourself even if you're not guilty. Lawyers don't work for free and they'll bleed you dry while "defending" your stance.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

   After reading much of that link nowhere did I see where personal use qualifies as fair use. The above is a quote of what is checked for fair use. #4 would seem the most likely way around for personal use but before you think about it remember the kids who downloaded those songs and got clobbered in court. There is more about parodies and other things but none mention personal use being allowed under fair use. I take the high ground on this because far too many people ride on the back of others instead of thinking and creating for themselves.

[knockonwood 10]

This is a tough topic for me I was clueless thanks for clearing it up guys. I though personal use was ok. I have a question that is similar. The web site www.fontspace.com that has free fonts to download. When you go to the download area it says "Personal use only, no commercial use" does that include cutting vinyl and selling it.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Personal use is just that, yours not to resell but a lot of free fonts allow for commercial use and there is usually a read me file in the download

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Let's be honest here I have not met 1 person who hasn't violated a copyright or trademark law at some point myself included. The real question is at what point do you feel comfortable with what you're doing.

[smendlik 113]

I have a related question.  I saw a truck with advertising for his business including the Twitter & Facebook logo to show how to find him on those sites.  I know those are trademarked and protected but since the whole idea of twitter & facebook is to draw people to your online accounts are they legal to use when promoting for that purpose?  I haven't researched this yet, figured I would ask if anybody has already looked before I spend time looking for an answer.