Obtaining local permits for putting up signs

[slice&dice 2,450]

Lately, the County is sending more inspectors out looking for installed signs that haven't obtained a permit.

I've been providing completed signs at my shop for over a year now, and always tell the customers "Sign Permits are YOUR problem"

Today, a guy came in and wanted me to assist in obtaining the permit.

No clue.

Any ideas?................

[vinylmotivations 143]

I know around here not only do you have to have a permit, but you also have to be licensed by the city, county or state.

Not to mention in my area we have multiple cities that all have their own license and permit requirements and fees and all require some level of a bond just to themselves.

Id have a million bucks into bonds for every city that required them if I wanted them..

I am in Des Moines- but we also have Ankeny, Clive, West Des Moines, Urbandale, Waukee, Johnston, WIndsor Heights, Altoona, Pleasant Hill, and the county- This is all within a drive across town so to speak, and not even talking about getting on the interstate for 15+ minutes yet.

For example the city of clive requires a $5,000 exclusive bond, and a $50/year license fee. Des Moines requires a $50,000 bond and a few hundred bucks a year in license fees.

I would call your local government offices or do some research online and see what their permit requirements are. Some cities around here even require a permit to place graphics on the outside of a window! anything even looking like signage is governed in some way it seems.

[BrianMaruska 12]

I know around here not only do you have to have a permit, but you also have to be licensed by the city, county or state.

Not to mention in my area we have multiple cities that all have their own license and permit requirements and fees and all require some level of a bond just to themselves.

Id have a million bucks into bonds for every city that required them if I wanted them..

I am in Des Moines- but we also have Ankeny, Clive, West Des Moines, Urbandale, Waukee, Johnston, WIndsor Heights, Altoona, Pleasant Hill, and the county- This is all within a drive across town so to speak, and not even talking about getting on the interstate for 15+ minutes yet.

For example the city of clive requires a $5,000 exclusive bond, and a $50/year license fee. Des Moines requires a $50,000 bond and a few hundred bucks a year in license fees.

I would call your local government offices or do some research online and see what their permit requirements are. Some cities around here even require a permit to place graphics on the outside of a window! anything even looking like signage is governed in some way it seems.

I miss me some DM . I hope we move back here within the next year.

[mopar691 281]

Most shops pull the permits for anything they do. I apply for all permits for anything that goes out the door. Every city will be different in the forms and application requirements. I suggest you get acquainted with your local sign codes and get bonded/insured in order to comply and run your business within legal reason.

Hard to sell a customer something they legally can not use.

[slice&dice 2,450]

Hard to sell a customer something they legally can not use.

Well, that's exactly what I've been doing since opening this little sign store. People walk in, order a sign, and take it with them when completed.

It's apparently the Wild Wild West out there, and I've been contributing to it.

In my opinion, the owner of a business who wants to put up a sign has the responsibility to pull his own permits.

This guy who came in was the first one who even mentioned me getting involved with the permitting process.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

In our town if the sign is on a pole or structure you will need the footing/base inspected before pouring concrete also a wind study provided by an engineer before you can get a permit . For lit signs , hanging signs etc they have ordinances that may not allow or only allow a certain sq. Ft. of signage per square feet of retail space . Just retail sales of signs and banners require only a business license from the state tax department.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

Most shops pull the permits for anything they do. I apply for all permits for anything that goes out the door. Every city will be different in the forms and application requirements. I suggest you get acquainted with your local sign codes and get bonded/insured in order to comply and run your business within legal reason.

Hard to sell a customer something they legally can not use.

Do you not also make sales to companys that will self install ? Why would you provide permits and become responsible for something you are not installing ? That would make no sense at all for just retail sales you would need no permits.

[slice&dice 2,450]

Just retail sales of signs and banners require only a business license from the state tax department.

Yep, that's what I have.

In fact, a few months ago, an inspector from the County came in requesting to see my "Trader's License" and I told him that it wasn't something I needed ----- since I don't buy any products to mark them up and resell, which would be Trading.

He looked at my sign fabrication studio, and agreed.

I take raw materials and create finished items, which is "Manufacturing" and not "Trading"

/off topic

I'm going into the County offices on Monday and see what I can find out about this whole permitting thing.

I suspect it's going to be a PITA.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

Just retail sales of signs and banners require only a business license from the state tax department.

Yep, that's what I have.

In fact, a few months ago, an inspector from the County came in requesting to see my "Trader's License" and I told him that it wasn't something I needed ----- since I don't buy any products to mark them up and resell, which would be Trading.

He looked at my sign fabrication studio, and agreed.

I take raw materials and create finished items, which is "Manufacturing" and not "Trading"

/off topic

I'm going into the County offices on Monday and see what I can find out about this whole permitting thing.

I suspect it's going to be a PITA.

Slice unless I was going to offer installing I would not even worry about it . In the scenario quoted above about everything out the door is not sensible or feasible if you pull a permit for something you are not installing you assume the responsibility of that install . I have yet to buy a load of building material from Lowe's that they pulled a permit for me .

Dan

[mopar691 281]

Do you not also make sales to companys that will self install ? Why would you provide permits and become responsible for something you are not installing ? That would make no sense at all for just retail sales you would need no permits.

Does this really need to be answered? Of course not. Use your brain.

And slice you do installs, so you should pull the permits when you are doing them. I really have never heard of a shop that will not do that. Protect yourself and your customer.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Most shops pull the permits for anything they do. I apply for all permits for anything that goes out the door.

I think this is what MabScot was referring to.

[mopar691 281]

so there is absolutely no reason to check local codes and laws. Sell your customer something they will get fined for? makes perfect sense to me

[Rodger 527]

SA , You did say you pulled a permit on anything going out the door . If installing , I agree , but like Dan said no need to pull a permit in any county if not installing . " Going out the door " is too vague & is what the debate is about ( & maybe some Captain Mortgan last night ) . In the county where my MD home is , you are supposed to get a permit to fix a broken window pane . In the county where my Tn & WV homes are , no permit is available . In WV ( Lewis county ) we could not get a permit to build a house because it was outside of city limits ... That did not hurt my feelings at all

[BannerJohn 1,324]

That's funny.Rodger...when I went to build my shop in Union County, I called about a building permit and they told me I didn't need one..mainly because they didn't have a building inspector.

[Rodger 527]

Same thing in Weston.... That is why the taxs are cheap there . Here in Anne ( Anal ) Arundel county , they have several county bldgs bigger than most malls .

[mopar691 281]

Well all the municipalities i work in if someone puts up a banner without a permit it is a 250 dollar fine.

Same thing with anything in windows, sidewalk stands, even replacing/updating a existing sign....

That is why I said check local codes, see whats needed, educate yourself and your customers. If a permit is needed include it on every quote. Takes less than ten minutes to fill out the paperwork and submit. Most places across the country usually approve within 72 hours.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

So by your logic or lack of any shop selling a banner would need to obtain a permit for the customer? How about Fast signs ,Fedx , office depot and so on I don't know about where you live but in West Virginia only the products you install needs permits not retail sales like Slice and Dice was posting . If you sell a decal for someone's car do you pull a permit ?

[BannerJohn 1,324]

I've probably sold 2000+ banners in the last 6 years and have yet to have anyone tell me they needed to get a permit for it. And I ship all over the country. Around here, it's local ordinances that you have to worry about..some allow it,some don't. But none of them requires any sort of permit for ANY signage that is considered temporary.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

That is the point I was trying to get across . There is nothing ambiguous about retail sales like Slice offers I saw no where that he stated he installs if he did naturally he would want to get a permit but not for someone else to install themselves . That would be up to the customer to research and decide before purchasing signage .

[vinylmotivations 143]

I know here in Des Moines, Sign Permits are required to be pulled by the shop and cannot be pulled by the property owner as they are the one who holds the license and bonds.

[mopar691 281]

Everywhere is different. Like Des Moines I am required to do it. Not the purchaser. Check your local codes and ordinances.

Here if you are a business you can not hang any banner, sign, window lettering, sidewalk stand etc without a permit. Even if it is only going up for 8 hours, does not matter how temporary. Check your location code. Just cause you have sold many banners without does not make it right everywhere.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

I know here in Des Moines, Sign Permits are required to be pulled by the shop and cannot be pulled by the property owner as they are the one who holds the license and bonds.

Is that if you are installing ?

[mopar691 281]

I saw no where that he stated he installs if he did naturally he would want to get a permit .

He has shown pictures in the past where he has done installs on commercial buildings.

[mabscotthandyman 1,410]

He has shown pictures in the past where he has done installs on commercial buildings.

Then if local code dictates he should have been licensed and pulled permits . I was referring to sales in his shop not sold INSTALLED

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Everywhere is different. Like Des Moines I am required to do it. Not the purchaser. Check your local codes and ordinances.

Here if you are a business you can not hang any banner, sign, window lettering, sidewalk stand etc without a permit. Even if it is only going up for 8 hours, does not matter how temporary. Check your location code. Just cause you have sold many banners without does not make it right everywhere.

I didn't say it made it right. I said out of the many I have shipped (including Iowa) I have never had anyone mention a permit. Not once. Sounds like a fee-grab to me. We don't do that here in Tennessee.