MH series as a stencil cutter

[baltoed 0]

All the offers for the MH series on Ebay (MH365, MH721, &MH871) share one certain aspect. They all have a image and the description next to that image that says.,,

* Dual position carriage (front position for cut-through, rear position for standard vinyl). Roland compatible blade holder gives you access to the most economical blades available. *

That means to me in no uncertain terms that it works in a cut through mode that would handle stencil cutting..and *WITHOUT* a carry sheet. But what does a Newbie know? Nuffin right?

So I asked on a offer to buy and got a message back that ALL cutters need carrier sheets..well of course I said are you sure? If so why does this show up as a feature?..a feature that deserves to be showed off with a picture to boot? Well that was 5 days ago and no response. So guys..anyone making stencils only?..meaning cutting mylar or durlar ..3 or 5 mil for airbrushing? Thats my question.. I thank anyone now for a quick response..

Later

Ed

[AshComputers 197]

Here

[baltoed 0]

Well I know you mean well but outside of having the word stencil in the title it didnt even get close to my question..but thanks just the same..

Still havent seen any replies to any of the several questions I have asked to a few units for sale in Ebay..guess the guys in sales dont want to answer questions any more than customer service.. And I guess I was wrong about them looking to answer questions in this forum as well..So hey guys..some of you must own one of the MH series..what do *YOU* think that duel setting is for? Even if you run vinyl 100% surely the question of why its there must have passed fleetingly across your thoughtS?

Ive not found any other references to these units in any stencil forums online..they all seem to be the grassroots *cut them by hand* kinda places..that would not work if you wanted to do them for repeated designs

Ed

[Rodger 527]

No experience with cutting stencils with a cutter . No experience with any other cutter than a Copam .... BUT with a cutter , it seems you would have to have something ( carrier sheet ) between the bottom of the material being cut & the cutting strip . That is so the blade does not cut or damage the cutting strip . When the cutting strip gets scratches , grooves etc , the pressure gets uneven & cuts gets compromised . plus it is rough on blades

The dual position is most likely referring to cutting a vinyl sheet ( ex: 8" X 11" vs a 50 yard roll . Downforce is a factor woth some stencil material from what i have read .You might want to consider a Copam . I went for a Copam because it was in the professional cateragory & had more downforce etc .

This is my opinion based on what I have done & read .. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night ......

[baltoed 0]

Roger..thanks for your thoughts.. but the reason I posted the exact wording is no one might think it doesnt mean anything that it does not specify.. IE.. again..

Dual position carriage (front position for cut-through, rear position for standard vinyl)

See??? that its positioned differently from standard vinyl..ok standard vinyl *NEEDS* the carriersheet.. I get it.. it lays against a cut strip to complete the pressure of cutting thru something that has adhesive on it.. ie heavy drag..but a 3 0r 5 mil sheet of mylar..no adhesive..and again a defined term of CUT THROUGH.. Im a retired graphic designer..read old school and made enough mylar overlays for color maps and thousands of other things..Ive almost gone blind from the flicker of a light table.. Read old school.. it takes little to no pressure at all to cut the sheets..think about when you cut scotchtape on a box to open it.. zip its gone..

Ive asked US Cutter if they make it.. if they have a manual available or would someone read their manual and answer this presale question.. Hey times are hard ..less people are buying anything ..it perplexes me that they wouldnt go and read the manual on the cutter and get back to me.. ( I wont go to why dont they just know their products and answer this simple question )

No one thus far has stepped up and said they bought one so I dont know if they have ever sold one...which is what leads me to wonder if they make it in house..

thx again for weighing in Roger

[Rodger 527]

I am interested in finding out what that means also . I reread your post & got the " cut-thru " part this time . What makes you think you don't need a carry sheet ? What you quoted doesn't preclude it I think it would still need something to keep the blade from damaging the cutting strip .( This part is for anybody who does not understand about backing paper or whatever a Carry sheet is ... The vinyl rolls ( or sheets ) have paper backing attached . You adjust the down force pressure on the blade & the blade exposure measurement so the cutter cuts ONLY thru the vinyl , but NOT into or especially thru the backing paper ) . If you are using stencil material ... ( I assume it does not have any backing material ) it seems you would have to have something between it & the cutting strip so the blade would not cut , scratch , gouge or otherwise damage the cutting strip .

I have a buddy who bought a motorcycle gasket cutting set-up . It uses a regular cutter . the gasket material has backing paper on it also .

Also another thought is the language translation . I am almost sure the MH series is Chinese made . " Cut-Through " might not mean what you are taking it as .

IF you find out , you might be the only person who does know . Nobody else I have ever talked to etc , deals with cutting anything without a backing paper . If that cutter has a way to use unbacked vinyl, stencil material ... might save money over buying the backed stencil material . Many of us use regular vinyl for a 1 time stencil , blasting mugs , mirrors etc . If you find out , let us know .

[baltoed 0]

ROger,..

well I found somethings on my own..guess its too hard for US Cutter to say look here as I waiting past 5 days now

http://support.uscutter.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/80/20/mh-series-user-manual

Havent read it as yet..just came back here to post that I found some info..

Im interested in airbrush stencils...I dont want adhesive backed sheets.. one they cost more..two they will always have residue on them and get dirty with paint and most likely not be reuseable or flipable..

Also someone secretly emailed me and said the cut thru setting moves the blade to a new location that sets the blade into a softer feltbrush type so I assume it doesnt get cut up..I dont need a carrier sheet ( glad my logic is tact haha )

Maybe I will know more after I read the above user manual.. hope its in english and not online translated chinese.. Still dont know who makes it.,.maybe the guy who told me about the setting will read this and tell me he read the manufactures plate and tell me who/where its made as well

Ed

[baltoed 0]

ROger,..

well I found somethings on my own..guess its too hard for US Cutter to say look here as I waiting past 5 days now

http://support.uscutter.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/80/20/mh-series-user-manual

Havent read it as yet..just came back here to post that I found some info..

Im interested in airbrush stencils...I dont want adhesive backed sheets.. one they cost more..two they will always have residue on them and get dirty with paint and most likely not be reuseable or flipable..

Also someone secretly emailed me and said the cut thru setting moves the blade to a new location that sets the blade into a softer feltbrush type so I assume it doesnt get cut up..I dont need a carrier sheet ( glad my logic is tact haha )

Maybe I will know more after I read the above user manual.. hope its in english and not online translated chinese.. Still dont know who makes it.,.maybe the guy who told me about the setting will read this and tell me he read the manufactures plate and tell me who/where its made as well

Ed

well for what its worth.. nothing in the aforesaid document germaine to my question.*heavy sigh*

Ed

[Rodger 527]

shucks , maybe you will find another article . I had to look up the word germaine ( actually spelled germane ) as I never had seen it before . Here is the definition in case some others don't get into town anymore often than me ( I know Bear & Ash ... .ahhh never mind ) : germane = closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent

[Rodger 527]

( This is a " secret " post ) Thinking some more about this .... it would seem a soft backing strip material like feltbrush ( whatever that is ? ) would give much more problems . I would think taping a piece of backing paper ( maybe even duct tape ) over the regular cutting strip would let you use unbacked stencil material .

[2CT Media 25]

How about putting Clear thick application tape on one side of the stencil and cutting through the material into this backing paper. The app tape cleanly removes from the material and allows for cut through processing. Its a little more labor on your end but that's how I contour cut my printed magnets for what its worth

[deth502 39]

i had always heard and was always under the impression that the forward position on the carriage was for the plotting pen.

ive made lots of stencils, but they were always from adhesive vinyl. i did once use a special reuseable stencil material, but that too had a backing like the vinyl, and was very slightly tacky on the back. afa just cutting a flat out trough and through stencil, ive never tried it, frankly, because the image would be very limited in design without the backing to hold everything in place. i can see your point about it not being re-useable, but you usually cant get much detail in a reusable stencil in my experience. there are special vinyls that will leave no residue, and with a disposable stencil, getting dirty isint an issue.

yes, i realize i didnt do a damn thing to answer your question. i just gave you the method i use and the reasoning for it, and i would bet, the majority of the members here do the same, which is probably why no one has any specific answers to the question on your method.

[baltoed 0]

shucks , maybe you will find another article . I had to look up the word germaine ( actually spelled germane ) as I never had seen it before . Here is the definition in case some others don't get into town anymore often than me ( I know Bear & Ash ... .ahhh never mind ) : germane = closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent

Well CRS is starting to set in ( cant remember sh*t ) so I gotta use my vocab while I still have it..*wink*

Ed

[baltoed 0]

i had always heard and was always under the impression that the forward position on the carriage was for the plotting pen.

**** See you assumed because your were not told in the user manual USCutter supplies ****

ive made lots of stencils, but they were always from adhesive vinyl. i did once use a special reuseable stencil material, but that too had a backing like the vinyl, and was very slightly tacky on the back. afa just cutting a flat out trough and through stencil, ive never tried it, frankly, because the image would be very limited in design without the backing to hold everything in place. i can see your point about it not being re-useable, but you usually cant get much detail in a reusable stencil in my experience. there are special vinyls that will leave no residue, and with a disposable stencil, getting dirty isint an issue.

yes, i realize i didnt do a damn thing to answer your question. i just gave you the method i use and the reasoning for it, and i would bet, the majority of the members here do the same, which is probably why no one has any specific answers to the question on your method.

well still thanks for weighing in..though Id disagree about level of design. it truely is more of a template.. we are talking airbrush here not color xerox and sure its not exactly the same but it give more repeatable results and a good jump off point for making a lot of tshirts *similar* Anyways.. it remains a part of the industry and brings good profit to some.. I've observed a seller on Ebay selling about 500 a week these days.. thats profitability in my book.. gimme some..hehehe

Ed

[Rodger 527]

well still thanks for weighing in..though Id disagree about level of design. it truely is more of a template.. we are talking airbrush here not color xerox and sure its not exactly the same but it give more repeatable results and a good jump off point for making a lot of tshirts *similar* Anyways.. it remains a part of the industry and brings good profit to some.. I've observed a seller on Ebay selling about 500 a week these days.. thats profitability in my book.. gimme some..hehehe

Ed

Deth is telling you correctly . MR300s made some decals to put on model cars . 1 was a Nomad decal that was on the fender ( TINY !!! ) . You can make some VERY intracate stencils with vinyl that no other material I have seen would have a chance with a cutter . Vinyl is so cheap , it is best to make a 1 time stencil like Deth suggest . I use Oracal 651 for a sandblast stencil , but the 631 is for painted walls & comes off alot easier so that might work for you ... Making a T-Shirt stencil use thin cardboard & tape some backing paper on the cutting strip . You might need a better cutter to cut stencil material or cardboard

[baltoed 0]

Roger..Deth was correct in stating it had nothing to do with my question ..I am in quest of why the duel settings is on the MH series, The carrier sheet..Im sure I would give in and get one to use on nonadhesive mylar 3 or 5 mil. And if the MH adverts in Ebay didnt specifically state it had a cut through setup ..and they then told me that it didnt ..Id never started this whole thing.. but I think you confuse a printed sheet of vinyl or a decal ..and a stencil which is cut through and paint is applied later.. Hey no arguement with me on print..Did I ever mention I was a Graphic Designer for over 35 years.. no dont think I did.. its not *germane*..haha.. had to use it again sorry.. Some day..if I moved to say painting cars or bikes or models I can see a lot of use for making a vinyl cutout stencil. For repeating the same shape or piece of art over and over...but for one off..ie origional one of a kind types frisket and go a long way

[Rodger 527]

Deth is correct in that vinyl will cut with MUCH more detail than any other material widely used , especially non adhesive/ paper etc backed stuff . Have you been talking to USCutter or the other E-bay MH sellers ?

Hilarious , you just bring up " printed " sheet of vinyl & think I might confuse that or a decal with a stencil . I make cut vinyl decals which i use as stencils . I am sure you don't quite understand & would if you seen the process in person . How are you going to use a stencil to air brush shirts ? Seems the parts that hold the interior pieces would make it look stenciled

[deth502 39]

im guessing that hes just using the stencils for general shapes and what not, and adding the detail by hand with the airbrush. something beyond my skillset. (to clarify, exactly what rodger and i are referring to, heres a incredibly drawn out 4 minute video that should have taken 30 seconds.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7fK1vo3GCc&feature=related

the one attempt i made at trying to make a reuseable stencil, i got a small piece of the material from walmart (specifically marketed as a reuseable stencil material). it was quite thick and stiff, probably some kind of mylar or pvc based material. it did have a backer sheet, and a very weak adhesive on one side, almost like touching a tack cloth. i didnt have very good results with it, but i contribute that totally to user error, im sure with enough playing with the pressure, blade exposure, and speed, i could have got it running nicely. it still didnt "cut through" but the backer on it was only about the thickness of a piece of saran wrap on the back of it.

point to all that being, its not my area, so i cant say for sure, but maybe the process mentioned involves a different material than your thinking of try to use? either way, im not sure why they would say "cut through"

frankly, if you set the blade depth just right, i dont see why you couldnt cut through and maintain a somewhat decent cutting strip life. that said, if i were to try it, id probably just run a layer of masking tape along the cut strip and have at it. when the tape started getting scored badly, change it out. much more convenient and cheaper than buy a new cutting strip every time.

[baltoed 0]

Deth; Placing the tape is a good idea..there is single and double faced foam tape available for years now to do such a job..about a 1/16 think if memory serves me correctly...

take a second, log into ebay and type airbrush stencil. You will probably get over 1000 hits..and by no means are they simple

Here is one such store

http://stores.ebay.com/airbrushing-stencils

All of these are made from 3-5 mil mylar or plastic..no backing..art supplies have tons of cut sheet and roll..see websites as Dick BLick.

I find myself repeating the same things all mentioned in the first question.. 2 locations.. one for cut through..never touches the strip..if you need a carriersheet or not..

I was hot to purchase..now much cooled..I expected an informed reply from US Cutter about the duel location..when it was not forth coming I turned to here; the users; looking for a informed reply....life is harder than it should be. US Cutter imports these MH series from China.not Japan as they allude to. As the american buyers have low opinions of chinese made products you shouldnt go and try to fool them..I speak of the japan made advert line..They didnt specificly say it was made in Japan..they threw in a comment hoping you would assume it.. Old sales ploy that I have seen used to allude from the actual.

The documents provided as support to these MH series are minimal at best. I have phone numbers and addresses to the manufacture in China but not an email. If I had the email Id be in contact already as this is way too hard to get a simple piece of info. So here is where it stands. Me..the newbie *believes* that the unit has a cut through mode. It also appears that it doesnt need a carrier sheet as the cutter blade never gets close to the carrier strip everyone is afraid to destroy.. It appears that this is the ONLY cutter that has this setting and that is perplexing as it seems so obvious a decent thing to have from the perspective of a airbrush stencil cutter. even the hand dauber people..( sponge applying ) *BUT* I reiterate, Im a newbie so I cant fully go with just my gut feelings on this..The worst thing of all this makes me fearful to purchase with such lack of handholding taken here not by your guys but the company and them never getting back to my questions online here or in Ebay..they answered one finally about shipping size box when its broke down...the poor documentation. And the statement by them that if you buy from them thru Ebay and it comes to me DOA..its my problem and they wont replace/reship. That if I cant live with that..dont buy from them..WOW..a bankruptcy waiting to happen or just pure arragance? Here I watch returned items..non functional placed right back into stock..right back on the shelf to be sold again...again as maybe someone wont return it next time. warranty here in this city's mall the electronics or anything else is 3 days.. Doesnt that inspire confidance?>\ How do I know USCutter isnt of the same ilk? Yes fearful at best describes my demeanor.

You can find more info about these MH series by running down the Euro sales market ie web searching..having not found an asian reseller as yet.

I will check back in a few days to see if any resolution is offered up here but Im not too hopeful. Maybe someday I will want to do some vinyl..I can see some advantages but not where I am in this learning curve so far.

Ed

[Rodger 527]

The auction in the link you gave says the stencils are cut by laser . Does the MH series do that also ? Ed , you seem like a nice guy , BUT I would not want you as a customer . The mouth you have given USCutter already would make me want to " explain " to you how I felt IF I was them . They are doing great , so your assessment of them isn't relative IMO .

Edit ; Ed , I talked to a guy who knows ALOT about the MH series . here is what he told me

" If I remember correctly, there were two cutting strips on the MH- one was "felt" like, and one was harder plastic. Felt-like strip positioned in front, so when cutting through, it didn't ding the blade. Plastic strip in the back position which is firmer and would ding the blade, but you are cutting material with backing anyhow- not cutting through, so the blade never hits the pastic. Got to make sure the blade does not go very far through the material in to the felt strip, or it could get dinged too.

But also, yes. When cutting stencils, or cutting through any material, it is still a good idea to use some sort of self made backing, just to be safe. Especially with the cheaper MH series."

[AshComputers 197]

Seems to me, the only reason you came on here was to cry about everything. Grow up man, get a life, and stop wasting others time will you?

It's unbelieable that this thread has went on this long.......... UNREAL hahahahaahahahaha

Just shows you the mentality of the beast I guess??

Have a great day, and hope you find another plotter on ebay that will hold a true laser, get some shielded goggles and burn the world down. That will work WELL!!!! Get that... that will stencil cut anything you put in there ! WOW! I'M A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND!!!!

WWWOOOOO HOOOOOOO WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEHEHEHEHEHEHEH

Have a great Day! And props on your new true laser plotter!

Here's the answer to your dual question as well

• Dual position carriage (front position for cut-through, rear position for standard vinyl). Roland compatible blade holder gives you access to the most economical blades available.
• Two fully adjustable pinch-rollers allow you to use a flexible range of materials.
• Superior ball-bearing dual roller media roller system allows you to place material on top of rollers rather than putting roller through material each time.

http://theairbrushforum.com/questions-answers-paint-airbrush-related/2407-thinking-about-vinyl-cutter-machine.html

[baltoed 0]

Roger..Im going to a agree with you that Im a nice guy..and Im very honest and straight forward as well. I dont use subterfuge nor do I allude to things but state them as plainly as I can. That being said..I havent *mouthed* anyone..but said exactly how this little adventure of mine has transgressed. How Ive tried to unearth the information I have sought. What USCutter states in their ads to sell on Ebay and their actions or lack thereof when it comes to their dealings with me. Ive given credit where and to whom credit was due. If it appears to come to bad light then that is solely due to the facts of the case in hand and not one bit of fabrication of mine. The word *mouthed* to me would somehow indicate that I wasnt somehow honest to what has taken place or the facts that are pertinent and that.. dear sir....is just NOT the case. The only thing in all of this that I see that which I do is I do not go back and fix my spelling and grammar errors in all these missives. Dont you think it odd that even as you say mouthed.that they are conspiciously ABSENT in bringing any light to what their picture and statements in their ads mean? Surely you must ?? Suppose they handled all of this differently? Dont you think Id make quite the Champion of their business acumen, their ethics and customer service?

As you say my opinion might be for naught to them. Yet I remain but a humble man with a thirst for knowledge of a subject that they should be eager to supply but have not done?

So Roger.. I guess your third party chat will have to suffice for my answer and,in fact, another question formed in me but I have thus far prevented myself from asking... as to take the thrust of this thread away from its purpose. But Id be remiss if I didnt stop and say thanks for your effort in my behalf.

Blade damage. I take it that blade depth on the MH and economy model cutters have blade depth set by hand? That sounds like a hard task to handle given the tolerances of the materials Id be interested in cutting.. (again 3-5mil) So on the higher grade machines is that a digital setting so as to prevent human error?

[Rodger 527]

I have never used or seen a MH cutter , but all cutters are adjusted manually as far as blade depth ( which is done by turning a bolt in the blade holder ) . Cutting vinyl , it is a sensitive setting in order to cut thru the material , but not into or thru the backing paper . Down pressure has a big effect on the blade adjustment & i think the cutter gets it's reading from the point of the blade so i would guess taping some backing paper over the regular cutting edge would be esier & much more consistant . Even with a felt cutting strip, the blade has to stick thru the stencil material some & that is why you have been given the advice about using some sort of backing material . It would have to damage that felt sooner or later & I am thinking sooner . It would seem that would be MUCH tougher on the cutter itself The MH series might hold up to stencil material , but I don't think they are rated for stuff like that , which makes the whole issue moot .

I should have said " BAD " mouthing so you would have understood easier , but did not want to be any more abrasive than what I was . I think you are being dramatic & did demean USCutter several times . You want answers nobody knows ( you might look on a stencil making forum ) & are not satisfied unless you get the answer you are looking for . I have to laugh as I have been guilty of that before . USCutter personel told you that you need a backing material , Deth & I told you need 1 . Turns out you may not NEED 1 . I bet you will wind up using a backing material as living in the Phillipines , it is not going to be easy to replace the felt cuting strip easy or cheaply . I would use 1 if it cost 5 cents to replace the felt cutting strip & I could walk across the street to get it .

The quoted advice came from someone who dealt with MH cutters ALOT . He had no other knowledge or experience in this matter than what i quoted . I did a search & ran into this person who I have known for 4 years . I suggest spending the effort you have worrying about how & why USCutter is not interested in further explaining things to you than what they did .. in searching for somebody who has experience . Bottom line , seems the MH series is the only series that has the dual cutting , dual cutting strip so most likley not much experience easily found or available with the situation you propose ( MH , UNBACKED stencil material , cutting thru )... the MH series are the cheapest , lowest quality cutters ( does not mean they are not a good cutter , especially for vinyl & hobby types ) , Reading the cutters description , i would ( & did ) go with a Copam at least , as they are rated for tougher material , higher downforce etc .

Thanks for the link . I might have them make me some stencils . I am going to check into spray painting some shirts . I will have to find out what kind of paint will work & how long it will last .

Just to make sure .. here is the important part of my friends advice

" But also, yes. When cutting stencils, or cutting through any material, it is still a good idea to use some sort of self made backing, just to be safe. Especially with the cheaper MH series. "

[roxanneupnorth 106]

I think you are mistaken if you think this cutter will do as good of job as other methods.....I suspect that you will need to change blades every few designs......The blades are meant for cutting thin vinyl, not thick mylar.....Also, the stepper motor will wear out very quickly if you are doing heavy work....

[deth502 39]

the guy came here with a question about a cutter, to the cutter sellers website, and cannot get an accurate answer to his question. i can see why he would be a bit disillusioned with us cutter at this point.

i am not sure exactly what hes looking to do, that why i prefaced my comments with that fact, but i offered what little i did know related to the subject in the event that something might have been helpful, it seems that most here also dont know exactly what hes looking to do, so i can see why he would get frustrated there too. cut the guy some slack.

and to baltoed, one thing you have to understand, is that although us cutter hosts this site, and send ppl here for support, they dont take an active role in it. amof, youll be lucky to find a post by anyone that actually has anything to do with us cutter. this forum is made up of just other users that have purchased or are contemplating getting a cutter and came here for questions, just like yourself. some get answers and move on, some hang around.

now, to get kind of back on topic, i just measured some of the reuseable stencil matl i was refering to that i got from walmart, and it mics out to ten thou. iirc, a mil is roughly equivalent to .001", so that would make it roughly 10 mil. (its .012" WITH the backing)

now, slightly off topic, but relating to what i was saying about needing the transfer paper to hold thing together..... here is one of the templates from the link you posted.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Skull-114-airbrush-stencil-template-harley-paint-/320728365943?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aace67b77

this is where i ( and most here, i assume) am lost. in the pic, i dont know weather the colored background, or the white parts are supposed to be the actual template, but either way, there are segments that would be left "floating". i cant see how that design would be able to be made by a single piece template. at best, it would be a pile of pieces, like a puzzle, to put together to assemble the actual template. am i making sense here?