Customer changes :-(

[sublimation 0]

Getting very frustrated on this one. I have a Dr. office for a customer and am doing window vinyl (have finished that part) and a sublimated and vinyl aluminum hanging sign (HAVE NOT finished this part  )

Heres the problem......He has told me what he wants, fonts, colors etc. etc. etc.  and oh yeah...etc. :-

So....I make a mock up ..print it out on 11X 8.5 and show it to him.. he wants a change....so I do another (ya see where i'm going here as you all must have had this problem a few times) and print out a sample....this keeps going ON......I am doing everything he asks because he wants it how he wants it but he keeps changing his mind.....He even thought the 11x 8.5 sample print out was the actual size I was going to put on a 24X12" sign.....friggin 

So heres my ? how many changes do you allow a customer? If they are his changes and not my mistakes....confused on this one as I'm down to about $2.00 and hour after all his crappola

Thanks for any input...{sorry about the Rant  }

[dustinjtrr 0]

well if someone gives me a rough idea and wants me to turn it into something i charge a design fee of $25.  I show them a proof and they get one chance to give me changes.  After that I would maybe do a minor change without charge, and it would have to be minor.  After that I would charge an hourly design fee.

[nonabelle 5]

my customers are allow only two revisions. any thing after that they pay by the hour.

[firemalt 10]

my customers are allow only two revisions. any thing after that they pay by the hour.

That's about all I would allow too... especially if you are doing exactly what he is asking. Just think about how much time and money you are losing each time you have to go home, make changes to the design, print it out, drive back to the doctor's office, etc.

BTW... why not just email the image(s) to him, versus printing them out? This only would save time and money!

[tlzimmerman 11]

Well at this point trying to get my business off the ground, I have a flat design fee and no change fees.  I have had guys be very picky about things.....but the ones that were most picky were also the ones who were most excited and happy when I delivered exactly what they were looking for!  And those are the guys who give you great word of mouth advertising.

Its a catch 22...at least for me for now fighting to get established I am going to work as hard as I can....its not me vs the customer....it should always be working together to achieve a common goal....customer happy and yourself payed!

[nonabelle 5]

Well at this point trying to get my business off the ground, I have a flat design fee and no change fees.  I have had guys be very picky about things.....but the ones that were most picky were also the ones who were most excited and happy when I delivered exactly what they were looking for!  And those are the guys who give you great word of mouth advertising.

Its a catch 22...at least for me for now fighting to get established I am going to work as hard as I can....its not me vs the customer....it should always be working together to achieve a common goal....customer happy and yourself payed!

well yes i totally agree, but u still have to draw a line somewhere.

[Rodger 527]

Well at this point trying to get my business off the ground, I have a flat design fee and no change fees.  I have had guys be very picky about things.....but the ones that were most picky were also the ones who were most excited and happy when I delivered exactly what they were looking for!  And those are the guys who give you great word of mouth advertising.

Its a catch 22...at least for me for now fighting to get established I am going to work as hard as I can....its not me vs the customer....it should always be working together to achieve a common goal....customer happy and yourself payed!

I understand the trouble & time/effort consumption that is being complained about , but I agree 100 % with you TLZimm . 1 of my best friends dad owned a major construction co in Washington DC . He told me several times fat hogs get eaten . What he meant by that was that when a company gets lax , smaller companies that are hungry step up & do what it takes to get the job . I have seen it personally many times in the 33 years that I have been self-employed . I think of the Rocky movie where Mr T was the hungry competitor . With the economy being as it is , I know which business practice will prosper best . 

[sublimation 0]

Thanks all for the input. I guess at this point I'm going to send him (by email ) one last proof and let him know that I will be charging extra for design services from here on out.

I also understand about stepping up when the big guys don't deliver and get lax. This Dr.s office is located in a small mall where our store is. I have 5 stores that I am doing vinyl and sublimation work for because they have all been waiting 6 months for other graphic company's that never come back. ( I guess they are just to busy)

But thats all good for me... I just need to be more patient....the benefits could be great if word gets out that we are fast at getting things done....

[Rodger 527]

Plus the extra work will pay off IF just 1 person tells another prospective customer that you go the extra mile & don't charge for small stuff . I know it gets old very fast , but there is no prize for 2nd place in business except knowing the other guy got the job . I know alot of business that spend alot of money advertising , I think better to " give " labor than spending cash .

[john! 1]

I've also felt prone to this a lot. Thanks to this thread I'm going to  start doing a free design mock up and you'll get 3 revisions, after that it's a $25 fee. I've been cracking down more lately on getting paid for any work.

I had to make a logo the other day from a word document and i was going to do it free of charge but i decided to charge a $25 design fee. 

[Benr98 40]

I'll do a few changes for free but after that...it costs!  The more time I spend on changes, the more time it takes away from other projects.

I've learned one thing...NO free drafts if the item isn't paid for, I got stung twice on that, and there won't be a third. 

[Rodger 527]

I can agree with everybody's points    . The realistic viewpoint IMO , depends on how busy a person/company is . IF plenty or work & business , discounts & freebies don't need to be offered . IF slow  , better to give incentives than sit twiddling our thumbs . I have never made much $ doing that or for sitting staring at the phone wishing it would ring with a customer on the other end 

[tlzimmerman 11]

Yes, every situation is different, and you do have to draw the line somewhere.....but If I am going to draw the line myself I am going to draw it on the customer's side not my side.

[Rodger 527]

That is what I do in all my different business adventures  . It comes back IMO . The customers that take advantage are treated differently .

[Blues 18]

He even thought the 11x 8.5 sample print out was the actual size

That does happen to me all the time.

[firemalt 10]

I've learned one thing...NO free drafts if the item isn't paid for, I got stung twice on that, and there won't be a third. 

Watermark all drafts prior to sending them out, and inform as well as print on the draft that the deisgn/artwork is copyrighted, and you own the rights.

[zigns62 0]

so the customer give you a hand writing page that he want you to retype add graphics to make it pop for his flyer, you do the work, you have been burn before where they take the information and run with it and you never hear back from them. So now you want him to give a deposit before you show him the layout, any other way to do this so you don't lose the clent and your work is not used by someone else?

[acehole 1]

I think we've all ran into this at one time or another

usually from a female customer though