Thinking about closing down

[codogs 0]

I agree 100% with your last comments about some of the shoddy work that's out there SignAmigo.  I don't know if it's because some people don't take pride in their work, don't have the skill set, are lazy or did the job too cheap and just rushed to get it done.  Either way, it's a shame and I've seen it done by both large and small sign shops.  I do think the customer can be blamed partially in some of these cases for wanting the job done on a shoestring budget for some of the eye soars that are out there.

[SignAmigo 1]

I agree 100% with your last comments about some of the shoddy work that's out there SignAmigo.  I don't know if it's because some people don't take pride in their work, don't have the skill set, are lazy or did the job too cheap and just rushed to get it done.  Either way, it's a shame and I've seen it done by both large and small sign shops.  I do think the customer can be blamed partially in some of these cases for wanting the job done on a shoestring budget for some of the eye soars that are out there.

Amen!

[Guest round2racing]

I haven't done anything "major" yet.  I have done a few bean bag game boards, a few race cars (mine also), my racing trailer, my car, a friend's car, and some etched pilsner glasses.

I treat everything like it is a $1000 job.  Even though I only made $35.00 on the game board graphics (RTA), I treated it like a $1000 job.  I want people to get quality work and tell others.

I'm not looking to compete with the big sign companies, I just want their "rejects".  LOL

I have to say, there are some really great comments on this topic and everyone is being very courteous.  Keep It Up!!!!!!!

[john! 1]

I just need to get into a new mindset and restart everything but am having trouble 

[Guest round2racing]

Reset the Brain......

Weekend at a hotel with the wife, hot tub, champagne, nice dinners in room........

Just did that a few months ago, had a blast with my husband in Indy and spent maybe $200.00.

Best $200.00 I ever spent.!!!!!

[Rodger 527]

I just need to get into a new mindset and restart everything but am having trouble 

I know what you mean. I have had to do that several times ( business getting non-profitable & recessions ) . It is hard to be happy when the nice gravy jobs come very seldom instead of on a regular basis . Tough times & tightened belts 

[lueman 19]

I keep hearing the same theme and I have found that it's very true! A lot of people get into this market, but just like computer makers and cars only the ones with talent survive. Good luck to all, and keep your quality high, you'll survive.

[Jay2703 704]

I keep hearing the same theme and I have found that it's very true! A lot of people get into this market, but just like computer makers and cars only the ones with talent survive. Good luck to all, and keep your quality high, you'll survive.

I think talent and the ability to fill the nitch that others haven't. Like John found the small order nitch that the big companies didn't want to do. Also the ability to recreate themselves when others start filling the same nitch.

[NukleoN 34]

I'm a video-game artist, have been in the biz for 20 years. I got laid-off late last year and have been looking for other revenue streams. I got a cutter since I've been buying decals for a few years, but also because the decals I want sometimes don't exist. I also want to design my own decals since I already have a solid art collection and vectorizing is super-easy. There's something really satisfying about seeing your art in vinyl!

I never planned to sell skulls or popular-brand logotypes or peeing Calvins that 9 kajillion other people sell. Heck I don't know how people compete in that market. Instead I plan to do custom jobs or sell art I make myself, this way there are no design fees, no competition (I hold my copyrights and my art would be unique) and hopefully I can make some headway. If someone rips off my designs I got all the time in the world to sue them and make even more money. This is why I plan to list my decals as photos of decals and not any actual bitmaps. Paranoid I know, but necessary. I think it's more exciting for customers to see real product than bitmaps anyway.

I don't know how people survive on more generic art but I am guessing it's volume and repeat-business from other stuff, and some easy signage can rake in big bucks, no doubt. Coming from the design side first, I expect I will probably get requests to do a existing logos or text/signs, which is fine, but hopefully there is a market for original art on decals. I also think people kinda like stuff unique to them, especially if they're a repeat-customer who can have a hand in a new-design.

We'll see....I kinda think of it not just a sticker but a tattoo you can stick somewhere...very personal and custom-made.

For those who aren't artists....some people had some good ideas. Buy a collection of vector artso you can sell it...and sell stuff other people aren't selling..find a niche. Sometimes you can hire artists for cheap, like college students or younger artists trying to establish themselves, and if you hire an artist as 'work for hire' you will own the .EPS and can sell it forever.

I'm also thinking another good idea is decal customizing. Offer a set design but allow color choices by the customer. For instance, a girl with hair-color chosen by the buyer. Green, yellow, orange, the sky's the limit. Perhaps, a series of items in a particular decal could be customized like hair, dress, accessories, etc. All of this design flexibility could be built into the price. So then you would have not only original art but more customization on top of that. Once you have the .EPS, changing colors is trivial since multi-layer decals require a color change anyway.

[bigjimt 1]

Well John.........I have been in the sign business 50 years........and its always been as Banner John says..........just do good work and a fair price... and yes others will come and go....I have seen all the big prices some claim to get........but they don't tell you about what they don't get.......I have a friend in this business who will call me and rub in a big deal.........then I see him give stuff away just to keep busy..like going to a horse race... every week......for 6 mo. and then you hit a good one get a couple of hundred.......and say I won! (yeah) but don't count all the lost......so what I am saying is all that glitters is not gold.......Hang in there we have all been like you at one time or another..........

[Guest Schramm]

John!,

Sounds like you are just frustrated.  I dont know how long you have owned your machine or what all you are equipped with but everyone starts somewhere.  I am guessing there is bigger and more equipped sign companies then you in the area and when you popped up it probably frustrated them.  Sounds to me that you are marketing to the wrong cliential.  I personally do not do signs and I do nothing locally as my mirrors would never sell in PO_DUNK where I live.  Go to a populated high traffic area in a nearby larger town and make some flyers and walk them business to business until you are exhausted.  You will be shocked at the number of people that are paying way more then your prices and may be willing to change! 

I am not saying this is true of you John but in general when people are ready to toss in the towel, they totally forgot they have options.  Insted of quitting fight back!  Deliver those flyers, talk to politicians (set them up) and most of all find better places and prices on your sundries so that you can deliver the same quality at a lower price.  Dont worry about a customer getting a plotter - they will soon find that there is a lot to it to make/save a buck when they have to buy the materials.  Either way they were not going to be a long term customer.

You have fallen off the horse, so now get up and get back on and ride!!!

[john! 1]

Well alittle update.....

I've come to realize that customers come and customers go. I've been doing this for 4 years now and i must say I'm growing very well with my business.

I'm sure everyone starting out has had thoughts of closing down one time or another after seeing others pricing against you for next to nothing because they don't have any bills to pay for.

I'm currently working on some advertising projects to boost sales. 

[haumana 1,220]

In today's economy everyone seems to be taking a hit.

I don't know what's happening in the sign/banner industry locally, but I'm aware that there are a handful of those business owners here who have no problem asking $500 to do some basic 2-color vehicle vinyl. We're not talking car wraps now, just a very easy logo and minimal text. When I heard that I was simply floored. Those same businesses also charge $400 per 5' x 2' banner, and $1000 for a no-frills sign on some aluminum substrate for the same simple logo and text. I promptly provided my business card that I have as a "day job," wrote, "Vinyl" on the back and told the business manager to call me if they would like to save some money and get top-level customer service.

At those prices I thought that I should ditch the day job and move over the sign business  

At this point, I'm not interested in stealing any business from anyone, but if asked, I am more than willing to see what a client wants and decided for myself whether I'm willing to do it or not. Fortunately for me, I know that I don't have the ability to do large orders, so the smaller client that has never had vinyl done for them is usually the ones that will contact me. I've not advertised. It's through word of mouth and "gifted" stuff that I know get some vinyl business here and there. I'm always amazed at the business diversity that the parents of my niece's soccer team are in. The parents are impressed with their 'end of season' gift that my brother and sister-in-law exchange - usually personalized nalgene bottles, thermos' or anything that will hold some vinyl  

Keep the faith, keep up the good work, and always treat your customer like they are the only customer. They (customers) might stray for a better buck, but when the delivery date is missed, the work is shoddy, and customer service is non-existent, they will come crying back to you and apologizing to you for not knowing better.

Hang in there John!

[Kelleysbiz 0]

Wow ! This thread is quite depressing for this  "Tom Dick or Harry" that just bought my first pro cutter with big dreams...Reality bites sometimes !

[pixnstix 0]

But before you start getting depressed, remember there are 5,890 members of this forum. Clearly there is a viable business model wherever you live, its just a matter of enthusiasm and smart optimism to find the right place for your skill and talent.

Also you would be hard pressed to find anywhere on the globe where vinyl cutter work is not in evidence - look in any street of shopping centre!

[BossThinksImWorking 4]

Don't get depressed. You've got far too many avenues to explore. There's a world of possibilities when it comes to vinyl. It's like others have said, though; you just gotta find your niche. And of course, it doesn't take too many jobs to make your money back at the prices we paid for our equipment. I bought my 1st cutter 15 months ago and my second one 3 months ago. Business is good once you find your sweet spot....

[kart45 6]

This whole post has been a good read and I would like to extend a thank you to all who provided input. 

I bought my 'lil 24" pcut last race season. I had sponsors with checks-in-hand, and local vinyl/sign shops putting me off because my job was less than $500.

So what does a guy do... In my case I saw the people in the local industry that were successful, and thought "well if these guys can do this I think I've got a shot at it"

Got online, ebay led to uscutter, and this forum eventually. Long story short, I was able to make enough to get through the first year and make the sponsors happy. Equipment is paid for. Next step "Oh can you make me some signs for my storefront" or "we just moved into this space and we haven an existing abandoned sign can, can you make me something cheap?"

So it evolved into learning how to (for example) use coro pvc in a sign can. This is where I know I'm gonna piss off the professionals here. Honestly, if I had the paying customers I wouldn't for a second be using the coro in a can like that. BUT, the economy has brought on this low-ball mentality for the customers that I appeal to.

I started with racecars last year at a few tracks, and it has trickled out and grown from there. I still fire up the same pcut, allbeit with new materials and new setups, to punch out the job. I still make some decent money cutting racer number kits and the miscellaneous sponsor logos etc... in the racing world. That's my focus at this point and for the equipment I have I prefer to keep that focus. If/when I need to expand, I will modify my "business model" accordingly. I try to approach every new task with optimism and I always enjoy learning new skills. Sometimes I bite off more than I can chew, but the end result is usually worth it and along the way I challenged myself and learned I could do something I thought I never could.

This leads me to one of my biggest questions. I get frustrated when I get chastised for not supporting or respecting the industry when I produce something like coro signs at a value price (say $800-1200) for a start-up company when they've been quoted at or above the $3k mark for a nice poly sign installed.  I don't have a problem explaining to my customer that I do this as a side to my career (electrical design engineer) and rent my buddies bucket truck for a case of keystone light. I also emphasize that my work is not going to be the caliber of the $3k quote, nor will it be covered under any sort of insurance or service that the professionals possibly would. That said, the work I have done has led to more work from returning customers as well as new customers via referral or just by seeing the work installed.

So I guess in a round-about way, is there a school or class or some sort of education (other than a graphic arts or art/design) that could make me a certified professional I am asking this honestly and not to be an ass. I've tried to research as much as possible and about the only thing I've found is a Fellers wrapping class in conjuncton with 3M (and that's a whole other story on printing & wrapping... not quite there yet )

[lueman 19]

There are many, many trade shows like "The surf show", "The Big Show", "The ISS show" They offer a world of opportunities including seminars and training do a google search for any of the above mentioned shows in your area. They are the number one resource for anyone who wants to do this professionally.

[Guest fivestar]

.

So I guess in a round-about way, is there a school or class or some sort of education (other than a graphic arts or art/design) that could make me a certified professional I am asking this honestly and not to be an ass. I've tried to research as much as possible and about the only thing I've found is a Fellers wrapping class in conjuncton with 3M (and that's a whole other story on printing & wrapping... not quite there yet )

You could always take Fivestar's Certification Class.  It's only $500.00 per day and normally lasts about 2 weeks.  :D You get a nice little certificate after you complete the course.

[sarconastic 29]

Does that include Brunch? And a t-Shirt?

Kevin

[Guest fivestar]

Does that include Brunch? And a t-Shirt?

Kevin

You get a 50% discount on the shirts and brunch is included.

[lueman 19]

Follow-up Post:"The Printwear show", Tampa, fL Sept 25-26 Tampa Convention Center see https://register03.exgenex.com/GcmRegister/Index.Aspx?C=117&M=50000486

[kart45 6]

thanks for the info guys. I'm down with google but searching vinyl design and trade schools & classes didn't seem to bring up much in the way of anything that I could justify spending $$ on at this point. I hadn't thought of Trade shows though... might be able to talk my wife into a so-cal vacation and hit up Long Beach. Too bad it's so early in the year, would be better in April to hang around and catch the LB grand prix

Oh and Fivestar I'll hit you up when I ever make that much .

Count me in if the $500/day covers extra-curricular activities as well  (and it's in Vegas).

[Guest Schramm]

I really dont think that this is a depressing thread but a subject that every person in business for themselves goes through from time to time, myself included!  Business is tough and getting a keeping clients is brutal in this dog eat dog society and piss poor economy.  The fact is that most new businesses dont make it past there first year and many of the ones that make it to year three fail by year 5!  Upsetting?  Sure but nothing is perfect!  Most of those companies lease equipment, borrow money to run or work on credit cards to pay for things.  The more sucessful ones are the ones that dont have a ton of money from the start and use the money that they make to buy bigger and better equipment and advertise smarter.  The idea in business is to work SMARTER not HARDER and if you can acheive that goal then you will do fine.

Note:  From time to time we all need to vent and what a better place then right here?!