Where to buy?

[Fearstyle 0]

Curious to know who you guys bought your plotters from?

I have been looking on Ebay and may appear that SellTopia is Shill Bidding and because of that I do not want to purchase from them. Granted I want to find a good deal but someone who cheats their auctions like that is just not cool.

- EDIT -

Not replying in this thread any more till i finish my own query as i have found out a lot of useful info thus far thanks to a few mods here on these forums and explained many of the things I had questions about regarding company relation. So till I have all the info in I will post my final finding.

[thredz 1]

I don't know where you pulled that piece of information from.But I know of no shill bidding!All of us guys got our cutters from selltopia on ebay or uscutter.If you want to nuy one,do like every one of us had to do and that's keep placing bids until you are lucky enough to get one for the price you feel you could pay.I guess the popularity of the cutters is what makes you think it's schill bidding,but if it was that type of bidding you would find a lot of negative feedbacks on ebay and a lot of complaints about the bidding in this forum.Check the board!No complaints about the bidding,onyl people trying to help solve tech problems and show off the work they do with their cutters.But if you don't want to bid,go to uscutter and pay the full price!

[TaterNuts 3]

No Shill Bidding that I know of, just great deals.

I believe what you are reffering to is bid SNIPING, this is not controlled by US Cutter nor Selltopia.  This is done by the bidders.  (Its how i won my machine) You place a bid within the last minutes or seconds of an auction so that you may get a better deal.

[Fearstyle 0]

No Shill Bidding that I know of, just great deals.

I believe what you are reffering to is bid SNIPING, this is not controlled by US Cutter nor Selltopia.  This is done by the bidders.  (Its how i won my machine) You place a bid within the last minutes or seconds of an auction so that you may get a better deal.

there?s no way for someone to mistake Sniping and Shilling two very different things .... But we will see I?m doing a little qeury and we will see... Shilling is so comon on ebay its expected in 1 out of  5 ebay sellers if not more at times.

[Guest fivestar]

Why would you think they are shill bidding?  I got mine for 262.00, now if they was shilling they would of certainly took it up farther then that and I have seen their auctions go for cheaper then that.

Go with whomever you feel comfortable with, I will stay with Selltopia/Us Cutter.

[TaterNuts 3]

I have been looking on Ebay and appear that SellTopia is Shill Bidding

Just curious... How can this so called shill bidding become apparent?

Is it because Bidder 1 or 2 always seems to win all the auctions???

Let us know please because I also wouldnt want to purchase from someone who condones shill bidding..

I do not think that selltopia does this, but I would like to know how it becomes apparent by just browsing someones listings...

[Fearstyle 0]

Up until recently ebay changed the policy to make the bidders anonymous making it much harder to tell if Shill bidding is happening. There is a really good article about it here: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/corporate/article1267580.ece

I am currently using a eBay tool that will track and update a series of auctions ive added 50 auctions from SellTopia. While as I said being harder its not impossible to see who?s bidding. As of right this moment There is 3 bidders that are coming up simultaneously on more than one auction IE they have bid on the same plotter and hold the highest bid across more than 2 auctions at the same time? While granted it is possible for someone to buy more than one unit at once but it is suspicious that it?s a entry level plotter and its happening at this moment on 3 different bidders. As I log it I will see if there?s more names that re appe

ar as this with winning bidder names as well.

Now while that?s the first thing 2 of the 3 names that come up are repeat winners on only Selltopia items that so happen to be plotters.

But again im going to log as many auctions as I can before I decide to commit to making a purchase. As I am in no rush. As i said theres no way to be 100 % on some thing like this you can only make a educated guess  and it?s a common practice for sellers no matter how you cut it its not like only 3 in 100 are doing it its something that happens practically every other auction.

So for me it?s a matter of is it worth the price its being pushed to vs buying a plotter at a different level.

In no way should this reflect on the brand or quality of the plotter its self.

[Guest fivestar]

This is their last completed auction http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Large-25-Vinyl-Sign-Cutter-Plotter-w-Stand-Cut-24_W0QQitemZ300098710239QQihZ020QQcategoryZ26245QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 

You tell me where you see shill bidding going on.  Don't come onto their site and make a claim like that without solid proof.  You're lucky I am not a MOD here or your ass would be banned from this site so fast.  What are you some kind of signwharehouse plant?

Sorry guys but this shit just burns me up.  I say Billy ban his ass.

[thredz 1]

When I tried to get R2,I had been bidding on the 721's for over a week.And at the time I bought mine,I had two other bids on cutters going off close to the same time.I'm sure there are others who do this as well because some of us were or are in a hurry because we are trying to buy something to make a living with.I have also placed multiple bids on embroidery machines when I went from digitizing for a company to doing embroidery myself.And at the price you can get these cutters for if you happen to win them at a low bid,I can see people buying two and having one as a backup.I have both brands of the 24" cutters,but I don't use one as a backup,I use the hell out of both of them.I have seen schill bidding before though.There was a company selling around ten hearses on auctions one week,and there was a guy with the user id of either ringostarkey ot richardstarr one of,but he had placed bids on eight of the ten hearses.I figured it up and he had over $125,000.00 worth of bids on those hearses.When I emailed the people selling them and asked about this guy holding all of the bids they said they couldn't tell me who he was,but they also cancelled every auction they had that day and I haven't seen the hearses or that starr starkey guy since.But those are used cars,and you would expect that to happen when it comes to used car sales.But I don't find it unusual for people to have bids on more than one cutter,or any other type of equipment that will earn an income.

          And Five,I'm not going to ban him.I don't really even care if he's a plant or not.Like Marcus said,these cutters will stand on their own merit.It's kind of funny really.He reminds of that guy dale gribble on king of the hill.Highly paranoid!

[Fearstyle 0]

All im saying it?s a common practice and as I all ready said should in no way reflect the actual product just the Ebay Seller its self.

Common practice on ebay among many sellers that I my self don?t condone and I am just voicing my opinion which is not made up?  yet.

For example this first shot I took at the time I made my last post you will see those starting bigs by those main 2 accounts those accounts Shill bidding goal is not to buy back its sellers own product but to raise the price to what it feels is ok in its terms?

http://fearstyle.com/bids1.jpg[/img]

This is only one example of only two changes while I am recording Every bid change by every person i can get a ebay ID on over a period of time once i can record all that data I will be able to tell if in fact there is a likelihood of shill bidding as of right now to me it seems suspicious and im still not made my mind up. While there is a total of 3 ID?s that keep coming up who bid on the same item on different auctions AT THE SAME TIME. That?s one giveaway but again  nothing set in stone and only time will tell?

But again im in no way saying it?s a bad plotter I don?t know I don?t own one?Yet? well maybe? we will see its all a matter of time.

I have no reason to lie and no reason to bash a company I have no prior relation with and even one im considering buying a product from and this is why im doing this research to see if this vendor on Ebay holds to a practice I don?t condone because if it does then I will choose not to buy from it based on what my findings are while if I  find it does not than I will chose to buy from this vendor.

- EDIT -

The images are being shrunk in size by the forum to preserve its table HTML properties so the images are http://fearstyle.com/bid2.jpg and http://fearstyle.com/bids1.jpg as a direct link in its full size.

[Fearstyle 0]

When I tried to get R2,I had been bidding on the 721's for over a week.And at the time I bought mine,I had two other bids on cutters going off close to the same time.I'm sure there are others who do this as well because some of us were or are in a hurry because we are trying to buy something to make a living with.I have also placed multiple bids on embroidery machines when I went from digitizing for a company to doing embroidery myself.And at the price you can get these cutters for if you happen to win them at a low bid,I can see people buying two and having one as a backup.I have both brands of the 24" cutters,but I don't use one as a backup,I use the hell out of both of them.I have seen schill bidding before though.There was a company selling around ten hearses on auctions one week,and there was a guy with the user id of either ringostarkey ot richardstarr one of,but he had placed bids on eight of the ten hearses.I figured it up and he had over $125,000.00 worth of bids on those hearses.When I emailed the people selling them and asked about this guy holding all of the bids they said they couldn't tell me who he was,but they also cancelled every auction they had that day and I haven't seen the hearses or that starr starkey guy since.But those are used cars,and you would expect that to happen when it comes to used car sales.But I don't find it unusual for people to have bids on more than one cutter,or any other type of equipment that will earn an income.

          And Five,I'm not going to ban him.I don't really even care if he's a plant or not.Like Marcus said,these cutters will stand on their own merit.It's kind of funny really.He reminds of that guy dale gribble on king of the hill.Highly paranoid!

The fact you are open to the idea of me doing my own research and the fact that you do agree it happens is something that stands forward. And yes there are exceptions like you mentioned but the chances of it happening consistently over a  period of time with the frequency and amount of the bids is how you can tell. Being that the semi anonymous bid change on ebay it takes longer and have to use different methods of getting the information.  When I see a seller doing shill bidding or I suspect it I just don?t buy from that seller.

Its like if you go out and buy anything if the practice of how its built or sold does not fit with your morality or standards you can choose not to buy it.

So let?s see after a week or 2 I might end up with a cutter from selltopia and I might not just sharing my 2 cents and what im doing with the rest of you.

[Guest fivestar]

If I am reading that correctly you're basing your "findings" on 99 cent bids?  I'd buy them all day long for that price.  Care to explain this "top secret" software's meanings?

[thredz 1]

I see the highest bids on your highlighted bids to be $130.50 by dirtcar.Schillbidding?The only other bid over .99 was $102.00.I think your research is flawed.And from the looks of the tabs,when I see the my proxy which must refer to you,you have $240.00.The highest bid highlighted is $130.00,I would say that your proxy shoots that bid all to hell!And if you think 240 is a good bid,then that right there could be your problem.I would bid that amount all day long if I thought I could get them for that and turn around and sell them for a huge profit!But I guess if you did that many proxy bids it would count you as a schill bid because only other people who would bid that many times must be schill bidders.And to me saying proxy bid is like saying sniper.But I don't have problems with snipes because if I have something that's worth a lot more money than I set the opening bid at,I'll close the auction two hours early if there are no bids.And you are aware that there are people who buy things off of ebay and turn right around and sell them for a profit on ebay right.I know of a girl up north who buys all the cheap guitars she can.Then she takes the necks off and sells them and usually the body as complete.But she has been know to completely break down guitars and sell them piece by piece,making more money than the original seller could have ever made selling that same guitar complete.Now if you can show me where those .99 opening bids are jacking the prices up,then I might consider you theory.But for right now,from the pics you've shown your theory doesn't hold water.Just my 2 cents!

[Fearstyle 0]

can only output during a refresh without stopping the system from recording to do a mass timeline output ill post my finding at that time.. Just showing 2 of the 3 names that keep coming up... one of the 2 in those images had 7 bids totaling around 7800 at one point my system and i have no pending bids on ANYTHING hence why it auto enters my last used bid so the last item i purchased was 240 it enters 240 but does not flag the auction to bid but still has a preferred # based on your last purchase. You should also see a few in there for 140just bought new CNC bits for my shopbot and a replacement moto for a Vac Hold down system on my Shopbot...

One of the reasons im looking at plotters is to complete my Prefab LAB. Currently have a 4' x 8' shopbot just upgraded it actually. a small Versa Laser. Right now i want to complete it with a small 3 axis mill like a engraving style mill and a plotter. That?s the total goal.

- Edit -

Bottom line is if its on the up and up than it will show it after im done? and ill end up with a cutter? Haven?t decided between the two different ones there (MH721 and CP-2500)  and if find else wise u loose a sale from me big deal. Only reason I posted here was to find out where everyone purchased their cutter from? So to stop this from turning into a flame war im stopping posting till I finish recording and post my timeline..

[Guest fivestar]

Well here is dirtcar7x's feedback........hhhhmmmm looks like he is a shill bidder to me...... http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=dirtcar7x

and here's hydro7766's http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=hydro7766  another shill.......hell he even bought alot of vinyl from people....damn dude do some research before you come into forums acusing companies of things.

[TaterNuts 3]

Is this for real??? Seriously??? OMG...

It looks to me that someone takes ebay WAY to seriously...

When I won my plotter, I put bids in on everysinge one that was for 99 cents....  Seriously... If you would of done your thing back in December, You probably would of seen my username all over your sheet...

Personally, I like to keep it simple, very simple...  Selltopia's plotter are one of the lowest priced plotters on ebay...  Dont you think that if there was the so called, "Shill" Bidding going on, would they still be the lowest priced? Highly doubtful...

Heres some advice, and I highly reccomend that you use it...

Put your high bid in, and, if you dont WIN it for that, move on.  What do you think that these machines are worth?  You really think that you are going to win a .99 cent auction? Seriously?  This is pretty much ridiculous...  And if you see someone buying a couple of machines for a couple hundred bucks, that means there shill bidding???  These plotters are an extremely good value... You dont think that there are sign shops across the country that are winning these auctions and selling these for huge profits?

Just because someone is bidding on more then one, doesnt mean that there shill bidding... This is an auction, thats what the auction is for... BID TILL YOU WIN...

[kenimes 42]

Bottom line is if its on the up and up than it will show it after im done? and ill end up with a cutter? Haven?t decided between the two different ones there (MH721 and CP-2500)  and if find else wise u loose a sale from me big deal. Only reason I posted here was to find out where everyone purchased their cutter from? So to stop this from turning into a flame war im stopping posting till I finish recording and post my timeline..

I would suggest trying for the CP-2500.......one of the best we sell.

Good luck.

[britgear 0]

As the one who manages, lists, answers the questions from bidders, fills the orders, ships the Cutters.  I can assure you we DO NOT bid on our own auctions!  I get this question at least once a week, if not more.  Mostly from newbees to eBay.  I / we do not have the time for shill bidding.  We are too busy filling orders !!  Check our completed auctions for prices and buyers.  It is not unusally to see the same bidder on many auctions, I see it every day.  Once they win the item they want, that's it.  Unless they want another machine (yes, many buy more than one.)  We also see people buy these and turn around and sell them. 

We have the best prices going on eBay and anywhere else in the world for that matter.  If someone can show me where to get a better deal, please let me know.  We sell every item we list, unlike our competition (check their completed items.)

So, if you want the best value going, you will buy from us : )  If you want to pay more thats your option. 

So, 'Fearstyle' GOOD LUCK Bidding !!!

Cheers,

Mick

Selltopia

BTW

If I don't respond to you, it's because I am too busy listing and shipping Vinyl Cutters.

[marcuso 15]

Fearstyle has taken the honor of being the first person banned from our forum!

I take accusations of shill bidding very seriously.  We do not shill bid!  eBay has a shoot-first ask questions later attitude towards shill bidding, and they would not hesitate to shut down our account if there was any evidence of shill bidding, and eBay has much better tools to find shill bidders than Fearstyle.  I actually am aware of this because our account manager has told us that we have been investigated for shill bidding in the past (probably a competitor submitting a complaint).  eBay is the lifeblood of our business, and we wouldn't do anything to jeopardizes that relationship....

Now, back to Fearstyle.  He was in no way contributing positively to the forum, and his accusations without basis are not welcome here.  He was wasting the time of the contributors to our forum, so I decided to kick him off.  I no longer welcome him as a customer.  Unfortunately, he did not include his real name when he registered.  If anybody knows his eBay ID, let us know, and I will block him from bidding on our products.  Thank you all for your confidence and support.  It is appreciated.

We have heard from several companies that we work with that there are competitors going around posting baseless negative comments in forums as a competitive tactic.  While we will post negative comments about our competitors, we will always identify ourselves and our comments will be justified.  I give you my word that we will never use these tactics.  I don't think that Fearstyle is a competitor, I think he is just a guy that has a very negative attitude, but keep that in mind as you see negative posts in the future.  It is best not to give these people any attention, as the more the issue is raised in the forum, the more visibility it gets.  What I am saying is feel free to ignore it.