Cutting a printed whatever...

[gmatov 1]

Hello,

First post. Cutter not due in till Tuesday, will have to keep it running for my daughters, 2 who will share it for 2 seperate business ventures.

Another thread says: "The roland can be registered to cut out around images - basically so you can print on something, have the cutter look for the registration marks, and then remove the extra material..."

Is that saying my one daughter cannot print, say, a daisy, and have the Refine 25 inch cut it out? I'm speaking of greeting card stock, not thick, not very resistant to cut.

Can it follow a vector graphic (and here, I am already in over my head, but they know way more than I do. All I do is the bankrolling.), cut out a design printed on paper? That would maybe be OK for the one girl, but not at all what the other wants to do. I think she is going to be PO'd if she has to cut out her design and try to register it to print after cutout.

If anyone, including the support team here, can tell me whether it will or won't, if it will, a big sigh of relief, if it won't, I have got to start looking for another cutter, poste haste for the other daughter.

Can the Copam do it? I have read a thread that says the "opto eye" can't follow an outline, just used for detecting size of material.

Help would be appreciated.

Thanks much.

Cheers,

George

[marcuso 15]

None of our current machines can read registration marks.  We are looking at carrying machines that do in the future, so stay tuned.

[gmatov 1]

marcuso,

Is there any way to work around this, in software? I can see say the tip of a daisy petal as the registration or "origim point". Why can't it cut that daisy?

What machine am I going to have to go to to do this right now, seeing as you are looking to do so in future?

I thought this machine was supposed to be able to follow red lines and blue lines and green lines, etc.

I am not complainig too much, it will do what my other daugter wants, but itt was supposed to work for both of them.

Ah, well, guess I have to try the laser cutter. Whether IT will follow an outline, I don't know

Cheers,

George

[kenimes 42]

SignCut has a registration mark feature that wll allow you to manually set.

[gmatov 1]

Ken,

Thanks. My daughter thinks she can do just that. I think she intends to make a mark on her printed material, or in the file she feeds the cutter. "Cut starts here, cut to here, follow outline of picture, finish here.

Set up the cutter yesterday, cut a few "Tests" in matte photo paper, knife in front position.

Couple questions, while I'm in this thread. I see the fibre cutting strip you mailed me about. Can that be bought for replacement, if and when it should get too ragged, like the nylon replacement strip I bought with the machine?

The pinch roll on the head end of the machine does not move. At least not with any force I am willing to use on it till I learn whether it should or not. It looks to have kind of a round rivet head under the left edge, looking at it from the rear. I don't know whether that is to keep it in that position, or it is a limit to keep it from bieng moved any farther left, looking at it from the rear side. The other two slide like grease through a goose.

I inadvertently moved the head when I was cutting the wrapping off it. Does it reset when you press the reset or source or whatever control. It does come to rest against what I thought was a reset button for a circuit breaker, but now think has to be a home limit switch.

Bought 4 meg RAM for it. What little paperwork comes with the machine does not tell you where that GOES. Is there a better breakdown manual available on line for this machine? Extra/replacement motors are available from you, motherboard, too. Where in the heck do they go?

Even more OT from my original question, machine comes with SignCut PE. I thought it came with LE. Bought what amounts to a second copy, for 60 bucks. Can I use both, for 6 years use? License is for 3 years on the one that came with it. Use both, or ask to return one for credit toward maybe a spare motherboard?

Hope this isn't too confusing. Any answers to this post will not be apparent to anyone reading my original question.

My daughter is the brains when it comes to this Photoshop and Illustrator stuff. PSP is about my limit. If she can get this thing to cut out a preprint, and explain it well enough to me to repeat it, I'll try to post it. If I am not clear, I'll try to get her to join and clarify things. Meanwhile, if anyone else knows how to do this, please let me/ all of us know.

Thanks.

George

[TaterNuts 3]

gmatov...

Good Luck with contour cutting around printed images.

I just want to give you a heads up on what you may encounter.

Photoshop is good, however its a raster image program... Illustrator is also good, however, you cant cut directly from illustrator.

You must export the file and then re-import the images in SignCut.

Now, based on my experience, The printer that you are printing on and the plotter must be calibrated exactly the same in order for this to work... However, Its hard, very hard, to get it exact.

So since you cannot print from signcut, and you cant cut from adobe, this is where your problems are going to come in...

Its hard, very very hard to get a satisfactory cut from manually registering the graphic in the machine.

but, if you can get it to work, your a better man than I am, because after several several attempts at doing it i just gave up.

Keep us posted on your progress and if you do get it to work, let us know how...

[kenimes 42]

I know we have the plastic strips available, but I did not see any felt-like strips in our inventory. I assume they last alot longer because most of your cutting is done over the plastic strip anyhow. Not sure if it would ever need replacing, I have never had a customer ask for one.

The carriage or "head" will reset to default origin when you press the reset button, all the way to the right of the cutter. Usually does it on its own when powered on as well.

The 4mb chip goes on the motherboard, located underneath the right side of the cutter. About 4-6 screws to remove to expose the motherboard. There is a motor on each side, one for the belt and one for the feed rollers, inside the case.

When you load SignCut from the CD it gives you a 30 day trial to the PE version. During this time, you can use PE or simulate the LE version to see the limitations of LE. Then you can decide which you would like to purchase with your purchase ticket. Either the unlimited LE version or the 3 year PE version. 98% of our customers go with the PE version because of the limitations of LE.

[gmatov 1]

Tater,

It won't be me that's a better "man", it will be she. She THINKS she can do it. I hope she is right.

Absolute calibration between priner and cutter. I don't know how she is going to get around that.

She does understand vector graphics, as does my other daughter, who will also use this machine. I dl'd Inkscape for her and she said she uses it all the time, already.

Silly me, to think they're not ahead of me on such matters.

I'll let you know if she does get it to work

Cheers,

George

Ken, you posted while I was typing this, warning came up when I went to submit, read your post.

Thanks for all the info. Two questions remain.

The head end pinch roll is either fixed there, or it is jammed somehow. I still don't want to try to force it off that "rivet head like" projection under the edge of it. I don't know if it is supposed to be fixed there, or if that is a mechanical stop.

The other is the 2 copies of SignCut, the one that came with the package, and the one I paid 60 bucks for. Since one is "free" with the cutter, we have a 3 year license available to us, via the certificate. Do we use the extra, purchased certificate to extend that to 6 years or should I go back to USCutter and ask for a refund for the unopened copy and send back the certificate as well, or credit toward additional spare parts?

Thanks,

George

[marcuso 15]

Ken,

Thanks. My daughter thinks she can do just that. I think she intends to make a mark on her printed material, or in the file she feeds the cutter. "Cut starts here, cut to here, follow outline of picture, finish here.

Set up the cutter yesterday, cut a few "Tests" in matte photo paper, knife in front position.

Couple questions, while I'm in this thread. I see the fibre cutting strip you mailed me about. Can that be bought for replacement, if and when it should get too ragged, like the nylon replacement strip I bought with the machine?

The pinch roll on the head end of the machine does not move. At least not with any force I am willing to use on it till I learn whether it should or not. It looks to have kind of a round rivet head under the left edge, looking at it from the rear. I don't know whether that is to keep it in that position, or it is a limit to keep it from bieng moved any farther left, looking at it from the rear side. The other two slide like grease through a goose.

I inadvertently moved the head when I was cutting the wrapping off it. Does it reset when you press the reset or source or whatever control. It does come to rest against what I thought was a reset button for a circuit breaker, but now think has to be a home limit switch.

Bought 4 meg RAM for it. What little paperwork comes with the machine does not tell you where that GOES. Is there a better breakdown manual available on line for this machine? Extra/replacement motors are available from you, motherboard, too. Where in the heck do they go?

Even more OT from my original question, machine comes with SignCut PE. I thought it came with LE. Bought what amounts to a second copy, for 60 bucks. Can I use both, for 6 years use? License is for 3 years on the one that came with it. Use both, or ask to return one for credit toward maybe a spare motherboard?

Hope this isn't too confusing. Any answers to this post will not be apparent to anyone reading my original question.

My daughter is the brains when it comes to this Photoshop and Illustrator stuff. PSP is about my limit. If she can get this thing to cut out a preprint, and explain it well enough to me to repeat it, I'll try to post it. If I am not clear, I'll try to get her to join and clarify things. Meanwhile, if anyone else knows how to do this, please let me/ all of us know.

Thanks.

George

Once you remove the sidecap, the installation of the 4MB chip should be pretty self explanatory.  I suggest that you do some tests with the 1MB chip before you install the 4MB chip.  I don't think the 4MB chip will offer you any benefit.

As far as registration marks go, you should be able to basic contour cuts with manual registration mark setting.  I have seen some instructions floating around, but I will have to dig them up....

As far as spare parts go, I wouldn't worry about the machine having issues.  We have plenty of spare parts on hand, so don't worry about it until the time comes and then we would be happy to give you directions over the phone.  We simply don't have the resources to make repair manuals at the time - there are currently other priorities.  As far as the fabric cutting strip goes, make sure your blade is exposed just enough to barely cut through the material.  It should always cut over one path, so you shouldn't need to replace the material.  I have some of the material available, but we have actually never had a request for it, and I assume it is because it does not wear out.

With regard to the extra copy of Signcut, I don't think you can add another 3 years.  You can contact Signcut to ask.  If the software is still sealed, you can send it back to us for a refund.

[kenimes 42]

"The head end pinch roll is either fixed there, or it is jammed somehow. I still don't want to try to force it off that "rivet head like" projection under the edge of it. I don't know if it is supposed to be fixed there, or if that is a mechanical stop."

It is stuck (jammed) on a screw. Just pop it loose to the left.

[gmatov 1]

Marcuso,

Thanks. I wasn't ignorant of how to install the RAM, just wher'nhell it goes.. Same as a BIOS chip.

The test cuts we did didn't show ANY cutting of the fibre strip. I think I have the blade sticking out just enough to go through the matte photo paper.

Spare parts, I am sure you can get to me quicker than the machine. That was 10 days, but clear across the country, by truck. Package of parts, priority mail, less than 3 days, at least for anything I have sold, as far as Oregon.

If you do find the registration mark thing, let me know. My kid played with it, or tried to last night. Called me from work today, "Hey, what kind of return policy do they have?" Turns out she can't get anything to go to the machine from the computer. And, she doesn't like that she has to import into SignCut from Adobe.

Wants me to try to return it and buy a Roland.

I have it connected with parallel port, no printers installed on the machine I took over to her house. Checked that today.

Hey, if I have to get her a Roland, she isn't going to get a 24 inch. 8 1/2 inch will be the cash limit. I can get a Laser cutter/engraver for about the price of a Roland GX24.

Kenimes,

Thanks. I just watched the videos dl'd from Rabbit. All the pinch rolls move on their machine. Looks just like yours, but the stand looks to be more substantial. No matter. I like it, she doesn't, but the reason she gave me is she feels "more comfortable" with the Roland. I asked how many times she has used a Roland. Never, but that's not the point. I am a little po'd at this point.

Just as I have been at her insistance that I buy a 6 thou laser cutter from one company, rather than a 4 thou from another company, because the salesman told her it was better, and have found that SAME laser from another company for a bit over 2 thou.

I would love to buy that laser cutter, mostly for her, but it would do a few things I want to do also. It doesn't meet the sweet talking specification of the 6 thou vendor, though.

I'm closing out now. Blood's getting a little overheated.

Cheers,

George

[rrc62 0]

I tried cutting around a graphic and could not get satisfactory results.  Manual registration just does not work.  You might get lucky and nail a few.  The registration in the plotter has to exactly match the registration in the printer and you can only assume the registration in the printer is perfect.  You'll see what we're talking about when you try it.  The only real way to get profession results here is to use a printer/plotter.  These machines print and cut from the same file and same machine without losing registration between processes.

If her problem is the registration issue for cutting graphics and that's why you're going the Roland route, you might as well go with a Versacamm.  Wish I could afford one.  A Roland plotter will have the same registration issues that the US Cutter plotter has.  Only a Printer/Plotter will solve that problem.  Depends on how much you want to spend.  A Roland Versacamm is around $12,000 give or take.  If you're thinking about an 8.5" plotter, I'd reconsider.  That will be very limiting.  I couldn't get through one day with a plotter that small.  I almost have enough large format work to justify a 60" plotter.

As far as connection, use a serial connection and make sure everything is set up correctly in software.  Even a $12,000 Roland won't work properly if it's not set up correctly.  I don't like using two programs for design and cut either.  I'm using Flexisign which designs and cuts from the same program.  I think Signcut is fine for a hobbyist, but it didn't deliver consistent professional results....for me anyway.  I don't know what the Roland comes with for software, if any.  You may be looking at buying software even after buying a high dollar Roland plotter, so I'd budget for that.  A decent software package can run upwards of $3000.  Other alternatives are Winsign and Corel X3 with the cutter plugin.

Ross

[gmatov 1]

Ross,

Thanks for your input.

Man, I can't afford that VersaCamm. And, I can't see the other Roland products, cutter/plotter, being any better, as to "registration", than this one.

If you have to have the printed matter, with registration mark, perfectly calibrated, this machine and my printer output, I gotta assume the Roland would have to be perfectly calibrated, too, to your particular printer.

I am thinking of using either a period, say exactly 1/4 inch outside the cut area, say the tip of a daisy petal I have mentioned, that can be done, in pixels, I guess, in the photo programs, advance the paper exactly 1/4 inch, press "origin". Should cut from there. How to MAKE that petal the "start" point of the cut, I don't know.

I guess I'll have to print some and cut them to see where it does start. Maybe be better to use that dot as part of the cut. Will always cut from there, direction of cut wouldn't matter.

Have to check that out.

Also finding that it does not cut stuff out of paper all that well. Cutting itself is good, but when you have cut the outline of a letter, and knife goes tou cut out the inside stuff, letter "e" for example, the outline of the "e" gets dragged loose, gets cut up, paper tries to wad up under the knife, quickly goes to pot.

Not a problem with vinyl with backing. Needs carrier sheets, I guess, to hold it down, loose hold glue board, such as Roland sells for 2 for 20 bucks, and I have been told good for mebbe 10 cuts before loses its tack.

Daughter has been told you can buy a spray adhesive to renew it, but seems to me that cutting through paper is going to eat at least a little ways into the carrier sheet, still have to replace them at intervals.

Ah, well, what would I do if I didn't have something like this to do? Vegetate?

Cheers,

George

I'm sorry to carry this post on for another question, this to Kenimes.

Can't seem to send an IM, type, send, check Outbox, nothing there, so are they gettin' et up somehow.

Anyhow.

Ken,

I pushed as hard as I could to free up the head end pinch roll carrier. Will not budge. I need that roll to hold the material down.

Can you tell me, right here, whether I can bridge the head end casting with a 1 X 2 board, same on the carriage, and give it some mechanical leverage? It is jammed over half the diameter of the screw head under the carriage. Slide the center carriage against it, good 1/16 inch gap at the front, slide 2nd and 3rd together, less than 1/32 gap at the front. Stuck tighter'n a bull's butt in fly time.

If I break it, will the Co. send me a new one? Machine Repairman all my life, think I can install a new one.

Oh, yes, when I mentioned I moved the head manually, I forgot to mention that it was off the track. I had read lift up and push in to reraiil it. That was easy.

Cheers,

George

[kenimes 42]

Got your IM and responded.

I have had to use a screwdriver and small hammer to pop a few loose before, and if it breaks, we can send you another pinch roller. I have not had one break yet.

Keep me posted.

[rrc62 0]

Man, I can't afford that VersaCamm. And, I can't see the other Roland products, cutter/plotter, being any better, as to "registration", than this one.

That's right.  The Roland will be no better at cutting out graphics.

If you have to have the printed matter, with registration mark, perfectly calibrated, this machine and my printer output, I gotta assume the Roland would have to be perfectly calibrated, too, to your particular printer.

You can't calibrate one to the other.  The best you can do is try to align the vinyl in the plotter as straight as you can.  If you're cutting one graphic, you may get decent results.  It you are cutting a sheet of vinyl with many graphics on it, the only way to get the last one exactly the same as the first one is if the vinyl is aligned in the plotter perfectly.  The reason they make printer/plotters is for exactly this purpose.  If you're looking for professional results, you need the proper equipment.

Fortunately for most of us, the Refine cutter does just as good a job at what it is designed for as a plotter ten times it's price.  UN-fortunately, sometimes there is not an inexpensive alternative.  IE: Printer/plotters.

Also finding that it does not cut stuff out of paper all that well. Cutting itself is good, but when you have cut the outline of a letter, and knife goes tou cut out the inside stuff, letter "e" for example, the outline of the "e" gets dragged loose, gets cut up, paper tries to wad up under the knife, quickly goes to pot.

Plotters, even the Roland, are designed to cut through the vinyl and not the backing material.  If you can get the paper tacked to a carrier, you'll need t use very sharp blades.  A dull blade will tend to tear, not cut.  Again, the machine is not designed for cutting paper.

[gmatov 1]

rrc62,

I don't know what any of those other machines will do. I DO think that I can make a point on the paper that will get the cutter to cut out what I want it to.

I have been studying th Graphtec Pro, and the pics it shows are TWO reg marks, one top right, one bottom right.

I don't really believe the optical registration it brags about is as good as they say it is. F'rinstance, tack down a piece of paper to a carrier sheet, if you don't have it aligned to the in-out drive of the machine, I doubt that it will hunt all over the place to find the reg mark. I don't think it has the computation power built into it to determine much misalignment. I don't think, either, that it will use the computer's resources to aid in that.

I have 2 kids trying to share this machine, think they are teaming up on me to buy a Graphtec Pro, because it SAYS it will look for those marks and adjust the angle of cut 10 or whatever degrees to cut out the graphic they print. Skewing vynil, if you will.

Still gonna find the outline of a star they print on paper, just because it has REG marks on it, and the cutter has that HOLY Automatic Registration whatever built into it. I don't think it has enough of a computer built in to follow a line, like a plasma or oxy-acetyline burning machine. Half million buck machines, of course you can build a computer into it.

I think a reg mark, right front and left front, look at where the knife falls, will give you a start point, IF the points are part of the file you feed it.

If your machine or the software can do "pounce" or tearoffs, it should just bounce the knife down on the "reg" marks, go to the main outline, which, since you have created them ALL in the same program, SHOULD cut out what you want, or damned near enough that if tou dont have an "outline" that would show a little bit less here, a little bit less ther, should do it.

Since I have to buy them this "God says this machine can do all you want this machine to do." and my kids want me to send tihis back, I am going to bring it home, MAKE the sumbitch do what they say it can't do, and some of you, also say it CAN'T do.

What in the hell I am going to do with it, after, or if, I get it to work, I don't know.

Since I am a little older than a lot of you, with failing eyes, and happy to be machining little things on my little machines, mebbe plotting largish prints to read the dimensions from the tiny prints I am now working from.

Hey, a 7 X 10 print from a book, plotted to a 2 x 4 FOOT print, one I can see the decimals might be a good thing.

Yeah, I think I will keep it.

Cheers,

George

[rrc62 0]

I have 2 kids trying to share this machine, think they are teaming up on me to buy a Graphtec Pro, because it SAYS it will look for those marks and adjust the angle of cut 10 or whatever degrees to cut out the graphic they print. Skewing vynil, if you will.

Those optical sensors are more for automatic sizing in software to make sure you don't cut where there is no vinyl.  I would want to see the Graphtec do what you want it to do before buying.  The skewing you speak of would have to be done in software.  What software package are they providing with the machine?  Flexi is one of the best and most expensive on the market and it will not do what you're talking about. 

If it could be done reliably on a plotter, I'd be doing it.  I subcontract printed decals because I don't have and can't afford the equipment it takes to get professional results.

What are you using for software?  The Signcut program that comes with the Refine is OK for getting you up and running, but hardly adequate for a business.  If you're not using a decent software package, you should budget that in as well.  That can easily cost more than the plotter.

[gmatov 1]

Ross,

Well, my kid talked me into buying a Graphtec machine.

Got it Saturday, tried it Sunday, couldn't get it to work.

Got hold of the tech people and they straightened her out. Got there today and she brought me sample cuts, card stock glued to carrier sheet. Good cuts except for the glitches in the vector graphic. Daigonal lines I saw on the printed picture, with a jag in them, cut out with the same jag on them.

So, it DOES follow the picture as printed with the reference marks.

Still, I would like to see this on US Cutter machines, especially as an add on. That might be a bit difficult. At 350 for the 721, another 100 would get me to buy one for my other kid. I don't know whether she will take this one to do her work or share the new machine. At this point neither has enough work to monopolize the machine.

If they DO get enough work, of course, they will have to buy their own machines in future. After all, if money's rolling in, spend it.

Maybe I can use what's left of my money to buy a laser for myself.

Cheers,

George

[Amey Design Sign Graphics 0]

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.  I do this all with less that $300 of software and 2 different machines.  I know it gets confusing so I'll try to be as simple as I can.  Here is what I do:

1 - First print your graphics.  No need to calabrate anything a 2" x 2" square is a 2" sqaure on any machine as long as the scaling is set to 100% on both.  I use corel draw x3 (got on ebay for $100) design my graphic and multiply as many times as I want.  After that you must put reg marks on and print them out also.  I use a Epson Stylus Pro 7800 Professional Edition, but any printer would work with the proper media.  Also very important the cut line - countor line must be included in the print before reg marks are added.  I usally make them white so they are not printed.  Then I save the file.

2 - Open the file you just saved after printing and take everything out of the file but the reg marks and the cut countor lines.  Do this without moving a single reg mark or cut line.  Then I save that file with the same name and just add cut after it.

3 - Now here is where I don't think the refine can keep up.  I open the cut file and hit my CoCut icon in corel x3.  CoCut spaces the cut file off the edges 0.097", so I change the setting of the x & y values to -0.097 which all that does is bring the graphic to the edge of the vinyl/page.  Then I tell CoCut to cut the graphic using reg marks and send it to my summa d60.  The summa ask me to set the orgin and then the other 2 reg marks(1in y axis & 1 in the x axis) after I set the last reg mark no matter how many decals I cut the summa is golden!  Now I left out something very important that the refine cannot do.  Most times for outdoor prints you must laminate the print.  That's putting a clear film on toip of the print and makes it thicker.  Think of this like a truck with 15" wheels doing 60mph then put 24"wheels on the truck and go 60mph which wheel is turning faster.  Of course the 15" smaller wheel would have to turn faster.  With the summa I can calibrate for 4 different types of vinyl and control all of that on screen.  That is why if you cut 300 decals the last few are not cut right because your calibrated for thicker vinyl or the machine is not calibrated for the vinyl type your using at all!  But if you cut just a few there perfect.  Please don't get me wrong, this is not a comercial for summa, I just purchased a MH1351 and for the money this is a awesome machine.  I cut withit right out of corel x3 with cocut with no problems at all.  It all depends what you want to do.  And these machines are a awesome starting point for the money.

Hope this helps,

Curt Amey

Amey Design