toddlamp

Strange cut on CE6000-60

Recommended Posts

I just setup my new CE6000-60 and have been cutting various designs and came across an issue I can't seem to figure out on my own.  The picture attached shows a strange cutting error that I would normally blame on incorrect offset.  At least on my FC4100-75 I was told that for Graphtecs the offset is always zero and even if that is still the case with the CE6000 I tried different offsets and it did not make much of a change.

 

I double checked the design and did not see any rogue nodes that would cause the cuts to be off like they are in the picture.  Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

post-24609-0-89266800-1362792308_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, give some more info.  What speed? Quality?, are you sure your blade is set correctly. Force?  Are you pre feeding  you vinyl like you should be?  Never  pull  from a roll while cutting...   What cutting software?

 

Post the file.  that whole letter looks a bit off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The film being cut in the above example is Oracal 751.  Speed is set at 10cm/s and force is 15.  Acceleration is 1.  I am pretty sure that my blade is set properly but is there a procedure to follow to make sure?  Yes, I always pre-feed enough vinyl for the job.

 

Also Step Pass is 1, Offset Force is 4, and Offset Angle is 30.

 

I use the Cutting Master 3 plug-in within Illustrator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 is a lot of force for 751 vinyl. I only use 11-12 for 651.  

 

Back off the force.   Set you blade depth correctly. I have posted this a zillion times.

 


To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 is a lot of force for 751 vinyl. I only use 11-12 for 651.  

 

Back off the force.   Set you blade depth correctly. I have posted this a zillion times.

 

To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing.

 

I will back the force and try again.

 

As for setting the blade depth I have done as you posted before (when setting up my FC4100 and the new CE6000) and the problem I ran into was when I was weeding the adhesive/glue seemed to reconnect after cutting.  This caused lifting while weeding.  Only setting the blade depth father out helped to fix that problem.  At the same time I ran into corners lifting while cutting which I knew meant the blade was out too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
do you have your blade offset at zero?  you should.

 

Yes, blade offset is 0 and always has been except for two or three cuts when I changed it to try to fix the above issue.

 

And you should never be pulling vinyl from the roll while cutting,  should be plenty of slack,

 

I always give enough slack for each job.

 

So I just tried setting the blade depth as you suggested.  I took the blade holder in hand and struck some scrap vinyl manually.  With the blade at the length it was it nearly cut through the backing!  So I decreased the blade and kept trying until I could get just barely a mark.  Inserted the blade holder back into the machine and set cutting force to 10.  The cut I did next made no mark on the backing.  I upped the force to 13 and tried again; same thing.  You stated that for 751 your force is 11-12.  The material I am cutting now is 3M 7125 (2 mil cast same as the 651).  So where do I go from here?  Is it the blade length or do I keep upping the force?  You seemed to think 15 was really high but seeing that I sent the blade length as you instructed I have no choice but to up the force.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you don't need a mark on wax paper backing , just saying, don't go beyond that.. Did your vinyl cut correctly  the first time?  If it did, then don't worry about the backing. marks, unless it cut the backing..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the Graphtec tech taught me,  put the blade all the way in the holder, push the blade holder down to the cutting strip, while in the carriage,now turn the top of the blade holder and look at the blade against the cutting strip, get down eye ball with it.  as soon as you see daylight, the blade is set. You should just barely see that blade.

 

If your having so many problems, then contact Graphtec tech support.

 

Every machine can have different force levels, but if you look at your user manual,  or your Graphtec Cutting Controller.it gives the force tolerances for different vinyls. You should at least be close.

 

Make sure you haven't damaged the blade tip...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the Graphtec tech taught me,  put the blade all the way in the holder, push the blade holder down to the cutting strip, while in the carriage,now turn the top of the blade holder and look at the blade against the cutting strip, get down eye ball with it.  as soon as you see daylight, the blade is set. You should just barely see that blade.

 

If your having so many problems, then contact Graphtec tech support.

 

Every machine can have different force levels, but if you look at your user manual,  or your Graphtec Cutting Controller.it gives the force tolerances for different vinyls. You should at least be close.

 

Make sure you haven't damaged the blade tip...

 

Thanks.  I will set up the blade this way and see what happens.

 

On a side note, it seems like I can get it to cut designs fine but when I go to weed it's as if the glue on the back of the vinyl reconnects after being cut.  This causes the bits of vinyl to stick together and lift together making weeding a huge chore.  Any idea what could be causing that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks.  I will set up the blade this way and see what happens.

 

On a side note, it seems like I can get it to cut designs fine but when I go to weed it's as if the glue on the back of the vinyl reconnects after being cut.  This causes the bits of vinyl to stick together and lift together making weeding a huge chore.  Any idea what could be causing that?

Maybe it's old vinyl or it got hot or something,,   Does it do the same thing with all vinyl? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I can tell yes, it does.  It just did it with the silver 7125 and pink 651 I was doing test cuts on.  The only way I have found to combat the issue was to extend the blade.  I currently store my vinyl in my home away from direct sunlight and away from heat.  Typical ambient temp is 70 degrees F.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem that I originally posted about definitely seems to be blade depth related.  I noticed that as I went through the various stages of setting blade length the strange, offset, cut I posted a picture of above is was less or more noticeable.  As the blade length is shortened the cut is cleaner.  But as I backed off on the blade the weeding became much more difficult.  I do not seem to be able to fine the proper balance.  This is really getting frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well yes, the cut is cleaner with a shortened blade, from there you use the force to cut thru the vinyl better.  not extend the blade more.  Once the blade is set, leave it there. Use the force of your machine to cut deeper.    The process, should be less blade, more force.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO it seems logical that the bottom of the blade holder touching the vinyl ( & with how much pressure ) has a big effect on how to set the pressure . If not , the blade could stick out 1/4" if the pressure against the backing paper was the only consideration in pressure . Ken Imes handled all of USC's business when I bought my cutters . He is VERY knowledgable & cut vinyl also . I know some sales people might not actually cut vinyl enough to become what I call experienced . From my memory ( since I am too lazy to search for the actual posts :) ) Ken posted many times to use something like 200 or above grams of pressure . The blade IMO should only be far enough out to barely go thru the vinyl no matter how much pressure . From my memory again , John said he has rub marks on his vinyl also ( I get rub marks on white vinyl ) . I reduced the blade exposure several times over a couple years . I was adjusting pressure mainly on the pressure against the backing paper & it was VERY inconsistant . The difference in pressure does not effect my cutting much unless I have too much blade exposed .  grams of pressure is not much actuial weight/force with what i deal with . I think adjusting more pressure mainly helps to cut with a new part of the blade :) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cutter pressure is totally different numbers on these cutters..  There is no such thing as 200,  The force stops at 48... I don't even go over 12.  Your comparing a Value cutter to a professional cutter, which is what we are discussing a ..Graphtec.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well ... Looking back up that nose at ya :) ) I was discussing blade exposure & pressure . I have not looked , but I assume every cutter has a max force pressure rating ? Does Graphtec state it cuts up to 48 units of pressure or an ACTUAL gram measurement ?? I dont care if any specific company does not use actual pressures but " professionally " uses arbatrary numbers 1 - 48 :) , I was advising to use more pressure & crank the blade exposure down to where it is JUST exposed more than the thickness of the material being cut .. My Copams use actual settings which are in 10 gram increments from 50 grams to 500 grams .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does your Copam have a encoder on the Z axis for real time measurements or does it just guess at how much current applied to the coil will make the blade drop? 

 

If you are good with a graphtec you can set it to perfectly cut with any amount of blade exposed. You can tell it where the top of your vinyl is and where the top of your carrier liner is. From there you just key in the thickness of the material you wish to cut and never have to 2nd guess anything. Same blade adjustments for all types including laminated and unlaminated. I tell it in my rip what my material is and never touch it. 

 

What works for one machine does not always work for every other one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my FC7000 is max 600g in 48 steps, That is how it is determined.  I run  force at about 137g, and have ran perfect for years.

 

His cutter  CE6000....300 max in 31 steps.  Unless he has a 48" machine, then the gram force is more.  His force numbers will be higher, than mine because of less gram force per step.

 

So, I have to take back saying his number  Force15 is high, because his cutter does not have the max force my cutter has. It would take more steps for his cutter to get to the same gram force as my cutter, after looking at the different specs of the cutters. But going with less blade, was the correct way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does your Copam have a encoder on the Z axis for real time measurements or does it just guess at how much current applied to the coil will make the blade drop? 

 

If you are good with a graphtec you can set it to perfectly cut with any amount of blade exposed. You can tell it where the top of your vinyl is and where the top of your carrier liner is. From there you just key in the thickness of the material you wish to cut and never have to 2nd guess anything. Same blade adjustments for all types including laminated and unlaminated. I tell it in my rip what my material is and never touch it. 

 

What works for one machine does not always work for every other one. 

I don't know . The Copam does anything I want it to do . I am sure every step up in class & money makes what you are buying superior . I could buy anything I want , I just feel silly buying more than what is needed . Snap On tools are the best bar none . I buy Craftsman , Kobalt & Husky . If I loose them , they get stolen etc , I am not as upset about it . Some people need the better qualities of the higher end cutters , but not most . BannerJohn has been in business for MANY years . Especially with his connection to USC , he could have anything he wanted . He has always used " value " cutters " & speaks highly of them . In hind sight , I did not need a Copam & if I had read/know what I know now , probably would have not bought a Copam . Cutting vinyl will always be in an inferior class compared to custom painted , so that high & mighty " professional cutter " attitude is silly IMO . I go to some car shows .. NOTHING has cut or printed vinyl on the winning cars . I have not been to any shows recently . Last time I went , NOTHING seriously had any cut vinyl or printed vinyl . Cut & printed vinyl is MUCH more practical & affordable . I am proud & enjoy making cut vinyl decals , but don't blow my own horn like some do :lol:  :angel:  :bear: 

 

Oh , 1 more thing ...blade adjustment & pressure adjustment works on ALL cutters .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try doing auto contour cutting on a copam LOL - whoosh00.gif

 

 

give graphtec a call and let them diagnose it - they do all there own support even for usc.  Skeeter has as much experience with a Graphtec as anyone on the  forum - getting advice from people that have never had one is like getting advice on your mercedes from someone that owns a pinto LOL  each machine is different.  what you are describing I have never had on a CE3000, CE5000 or FC4100 all graphtecs. being a new machine it might be time to call them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So regardless of blade exposure and pressure I am still having the problem where the actual glue on the back of the vinyl "heals" itself and reconnects after the cut is done.  Seems as though if I weed immediately after cutting the design weeds without much issue but if I let it sit overnight the same sheet with designs cut at the same time will have weeding issues and I can clearly see the clear adhesive binding the cut vinyl pieces together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now