ok, set me straight on some vinyl printing.

[freezermink 3]

so forgive me for my ignorance on the subject, as i've really just started with this venture.  i've been searching the vast internets, mostly on this forum for the answers to my new found quest to be able to print on vinyl. i've got a few questions (which will probably seem very basic), but most of the threads on here concerning this subject are unclear or incomplete, and some posts seem to be quite misleading.

1. i have an mh721.  it does not have the ability to contour cut.  i know that this is a problem.  is there a solution to that issue or am i doomed before i begin?

2.  assuming that i am not doomed and that there is a way to get around the contour cutting, what is the most effective and least expensive way for me to get starting in printing on vinyl?  here is what i have learned:  for my purposes (mostly for fun, possibly a bit for profit) the epson wf1100 with the eco-solvent inks seems to be my best bet. 

3.  if the wf1100 is the way to go, what is the process involved?  will i need to cut all my vinyl down to 13", print what i want, then run it through the cutter?  (here's that damn contour cutting thing again).

4.  when printing, again assuming the wf1100 option, are there certain vinyls that i HAVE to use, or certain vinyls that i can NEVER use?  (i would love to be able to use the oracal 651 stuff, among others, as thats what i am stocking now and intend to continue to do.)

5.  if i am to purchase the epson wf1100 printer, are there conversion kits that i can purchase to convert it to solvent based inks or is it as easy as purchasing and installing, for example, the cobra pigment ink cartridge kits?

6.  there has been many opinions on laminating or clear coating vinyl.  what is the real verdict?  is laminating as simple as layering on clear vinyl?  what types of clear coats are available? 

i'm sure there are going to be those 'well you should have started with a contour cutting plotter', 'why don't you sell your POS and get a real cutter', or 'pony up the big bucks and buy some REAL equipment'.  well yeah, that'd be great and all, but I have what i have, and i'm really incredibly happy with it so far.  i won't be printing much, but the option would be nice, so something inexpensive and effective is my goal. 

thanks guys, for your patience with me and any help you can give.  my hope is not only that i may be able to understand this process a little better, but that this thread may possibly shed some light on some misconceptions that may be out there. 

thanks again for your time. 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

There is a method for contouring with a non contour cut plotter, I think the method was described using a p-cut - search the forum and you will find it

the 1100 does not have eco sol ink - you cheapest entry into eco sol is probably around 12-14,000.  the 1100 can print on inkjet vinyl like sihl and then laminate - don'e expect this to hold up like eco sol printing so for fun ok.

the sihl comes in sheets or rolls

Only inkjet vinyls like sihl and mactac

cobra pigment printer best option there is no conversion as the eco sol inks would eat the internal components of the 1100

6 yes just like layering or use frog juice

[stetson5331 80]

Ok I can give you an alternative.This option requires no investment in new equipment..Outsource your printing and contour cutting to one of us here on the forum that has the eco printing and contour cutting for you at wholesale prices..Contact Neron, jfought or me and theres a few others that have this feature in place already...

Hope this gives you a little more to think about...

stetson5331

[jfought 120]

Ok I can give you an alternative.This option requires no investment in new equipment..Outsource your printing and contour cutting to one of us here on the forum that has the eco printing and contour cutting for you at wholesale prices..Contact Neron, jfought or me and theres a few others that have this feature in place already...

Hope this gives you a little more to think about...

stetson5331

this would be your best option for getting print done until you get the funds to do it right. i know that the 1100 will work but....

[NiteWalker 10]

so forgive me for my ignorance on the subject, as i've really just started with this venture.  i've been searching the vast internets, mostly on this forum for the answers to my new found quest to be able to print on vinyl. i've got a few questions (which will probably seem very basic), but most of the threads on here concerning this subject are unclear or incomplete, and some posts seem to be quite misleading.

1. i have an mh721.  it does not have the ability to contour cut.  i know that this is a problem.  is there a solution to that issue or am i doomed before i begin?

2.  assuming that i am not doomed and that there is a way to get around the contour cutting, what is the most effective and least expensive way for me to get starting in printing on vinyl?  here is what i have learned:  for my purposes (mostly for fun, possibly a bit for profit) the epson wf1100 with the eco-solvent inks seems to be my best bet. 

3.  if the wf1100 is the way to go, what is the process involved?  will i need to cut all my vinyl down to 13", print what i want, then run it through the cutter?  (here's that damn contour cutting thing again).

4.  when printing, again assuming the wf1100 option, are there certain vinyls that i HAVE to use, or certain vinyls that i can NEVER use?  (i would love to be able to use the oracal 651 stuff, among others, as thats what i am stocking now and intend to continue to do.)

5.  if i am to purchase the epson wf1100 printer, are there conversion kits that i can purchase to convert it to solvent based inks or is it as easy as purchasing and installing, for example, the cobra pigment ink cartridge kits?

6.  there has been many opinions on laminating or clear coating vinyl.  what is the real verdict?  is laminating as simple as layering on clear vinyl?  what types of clear coats are available? 

i'm sure there are going to be those 'well you should have started with a contour cutting plotter', 'why don't you sell your POS and get a real cutter', or 'pony up the big bucks and buy some REAL equipment'.  well yeah, that'd be great and all, but I have what i have, and i'm really incredibly happy with it so far.  i won't be printing much, but the option would be nice, so something inexpensive and effective is my goal. 

thanks guys, for your patience with me and any help you can give.  my hope is not only that i may be able to understand this process a little better, but that this thread may possibly shed some light on some misconceptions that may be out there. 

thanks again for your time. 

1. I know some cutters can do it, with manual contour cutting the process is more involved and you have less predictable results.

2. The way I went (and don't regret it for a second): I bought an Epson Workforce 1100 from Cobra Ink with pigment inks and 50ml external tanks. It prints beautifully and it's been a workhorse. It's my second favorite machine aside from my Graphtec CE5000-40.

3. You need aqueous printable vinyl; I've used Papilio waterproof and soft white waterproof vinyls, Mactac JT1958P and Sihl 3988. Of those 4, the Sihl 3988 is my favorite. It's bright white, prints beautifully, and is very durable. The Mactac JT1958P is very nice too; bright white like the Sihl 3988 but a bit thinner. It's hard for me to find though. The two papilio vinyls are nice, but have a yellowish tint to them.

As for the process, I cut my rolls down to 12" (since the rolls I buy are in 12" increments) and then cut sheets of whatever length I need for a particular job. A common size I use is 12"x9.5". I cut the sheets to length using my Dahle 550 Professional Rolling Trimmer. It works great. Very quick and accurate cuts. Then it's just a matter of loading the design in RoboMaster Pro, making the cut lines and sending to the printer. Once it prints I laminate it and then put it in the cutter for contour cutting.

4. See #3.

5. I'm not bothering with solvent inks until I can afford a nice solvent printer, which will take a long while. But for now, the WF1100 with pigment ink CIS is working great and making me money. The important thing, and I can't stress this enough, is that if you go this route, MAKE SURE you get external tanks. The money you save on ink is incredible.

6. I use film laminates. I don't want to deal with the fumes of sprays and the film laminates are easy to apply. I've been using 3M 8518 and 8519 (sample rolls they sent me) and I have a roll of Oraguard 210 semi-gloss on the way. The 3M laminates are nice; I like the 8518 more, even though I prefer a semi-gloss finish. I've also tried papilio polyfocus glossy laminate and waterproof semigloss overlaminate. Both are good, but out of everything I've tried, the waterproof overlaminate is my favorite. The papilio laminates aren't very cost effective though. I'll probably stick with Oraguard 210. It's easy to find and pretty cheap.

[freezermink 3]

Ok I can give you an alternative.This option requires no investment in new equipment..Outsource your printing and contour cutting to one of us here on the forum that has the eco printing and contour cutting for you at wholesale prices..Contact Neron, jfought or me and theres a few others that have this feature in place already...

Hope this gives you a little more to think about...

stetson5331

i totally understand where you're coming from.  if, for some reason, i found some client that needed a large quantity done and i couldn't provide it, this is exactly where i would look.  however, i think you're missing my point.  i'm not looking to outsource a sticker or two if i decide, on a whim, that i want to make one or give one to a friend, etc.  i'm not really in this with that intent (yet).  i would simply like to know what is possible and what is not, so that if, down the road, i can spend $2-300 and obtain my own means of simple printing for fun and a small bit of profit, it'll actually be worth the investment.  i'd love to be able to have the clients to outsource the stuff.  when i do... you guys are the ones i'm going to call, asap! 

already the posts on here have solved many of the issued i was confused about.  specifically - a few posts had mentioned solvent inks and pigment inks in the same context with the epson - as well as using 'whatever' vinyl, not the vinyls you guys suggested above. many thanks guys!

[boosted 2]

all you need is the wf1100, sihl 3988, some sort of laminate(like frog juice) and Flexistarter 8.6 with contour cut.

[freezermink 3]

all you need is the wf1100, sihl 3988, some sort of laminate(like frog juice) and Flexistarter 8.6 with contour cut.

ah ha!  so then i am assuming that though my machine does not have the 'contour cut' capability, i still can perform the process with the correct software.  awesome.  see this is the info i'm looking for.  i knew there'd be ways around some of this stuff. 

[boosted 2]

I don't see it on ebay anymore, but the flexi 10 with contour should do the same exact thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FlexiStarter-10-vinyl-cutter-Flexi-Starter-Sign-NEW-/280600079400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155116c28

I use a four point reg mark, it takes a little longer to line up, but is dead on.

[freezermink 3]

I don't see it on ebay anymore, but the flexi 10 with contour should do the same exact thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FlexiStarter-10-vinyl-cutter-Flexi-Starter-Sign-NEW-/280600079400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155116c28

I use a four point reg mark, it takes a little longer to line up, but is dead on.

makes total sense.  so then the 'contour cutting' function embedded within cutters is simply a method to precisely line up reg marks for cutting outlines. 

looks like the flexi-starter software might be my next purchase... followed by an epson 1100 and some vinyl.  i need a decent all around printer anyhow.  seems like a no brainer.  i have this POS hp printer at the moment and i swear it can sense my anger towards it.  it literally prints whenever it wants to and uses whatever colors it chooses.  speaking of that... can those pigments used on the vinyl also be used on regular paper for basic printing or would i need to swap out cartridges or something along those lines?

[boosted 2]

I don't see it on ebay anymore, but the flexi 10 with contour should do the same exact thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FlexiStarter-10-vinyl-cutter-Flexi-Starter-Sign-NEW-/280600079400?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155116c28

I use a four point reg mark, it takes a little longer to line up, but is dead on.

makes total sense.  so then the 'contour cutting' function embedded within cutters is simply a method to precisely line up reg marks for cutting outlines. 

looks like the flexi-starter software might be my next purchase... followed by an epson 1100 and some vinyl.  i need a decent all around printer anyhow.  seems like a no brainer.  i have this POS hp printer at the moment and i swear it can sense my anger towards it.  it literally prints whenever it wants to and uses whatever colors it chooses.  speaking of that... can those pigments used on the vinyl also be used on regular paper for basic printing or would i need to swap out cartridges or something along those lines?

I use it for everyday printing as well, even some photos.

[jeremySI 18]

all you need is the wf1100, sihl 3988, some sort of laminate(like frog juice) and Flexistarter 8.6 with contour cut.

ah ha!  so then i am assuming that though my machine does not have the 'contour cut' capability, i still can perform the process with the correct software.  awesome.  see this is the info i'm looking for.  i knew there'd be ways around some of this stuff. 

yes you could still contour cut but it is not going to be anywhere near as easy as a cutter with an auto reg mark system.

[mopar691 281]

manual registration is a breeze and very accurate. Takes 10 seconds. and by any right you should be reloading your work anyways after laminate.

it takes no longer than auto registration. if fact if your using arms 4 point, which is way overkill for anything small, doing a 2 point manual is faster.

Before i got my printer i had jb welded a holder for a laser pointer to the side of my blade carriage and just put in the offset within flexi.

Super fast, super easy. Never a issue or a problem using 2 points for anything up to 3 feet plus. 

[Stlouistech 2]

manual registration is a breeze and very accurate. Takes 10 seconds. and by any right you should be reloading your work anyways after laminate.

it takes no longer than auto registration. if fact if your using arms 4 point, which is way overkill for anything small, doing a 2 point manual is faster.

Before i got my printer i had jb welded a holder for a laser pointer to the side of my blade carriage and just put in the offset within flexi.

Super fast, super easy. Never a issue or a problem using 2 points for anything up to 3 feet plus. 

Can you explain how you set the offset of the laser? I am highly interested in this.