What to do when clients want stolen art

[Guest Schramm]

Well I am pretty sure you all remember my laundry door glass (see below).  Well Thursday I blasted it into that german antique glass hating each minute.  My fabricator came and picked it up Thursday night and broke it.  IMO this was an OMEN and so I was asked (of course) to do it again.  The glass arrived today and so I though since I took the time to take pics of the original that I didn't like that I would send a pic to the cabinet company and ask them to show it to the client to make sure that was going to make them happy.  In the meantime I did a new design that I really (and people I showed here really like).  When posed with options he blew up saying that none of this was the original design that he wanted.  Let me explain:  Being in the glass industry I know my internet competition meaning people doing the same thing and you get acquainted with their work....  Originally the cabinet company came to me with a design that easily I could re-drawn and stole from someone I know but I declined as that was their art.  I called them to see if they would sell me the cut vinyl for the design they wanted and they said nope and I left it at that.  Because of this I had to wait a month and I drew about 10 designs prior to getting approval on the basket.  Both me and my wife said once I did the sample that it looked more like a bread basket then laundry basket but they insisted.  When it broke I thought well I have pics of the piece before it broke and emailed it to him and asked him to take it to the client - tonight he told me to either take the design off the other website and draw it for free or he was done!  When I sent him the design he basically said steal the other or piss off.

Well to make a short story looooooooong.....  I pissed off......

Here is what I would like to know from you all here.... 

1.  Looking at the 2 designs below tell me which one you feel would work better into a french design.

2.  If posed with an option to re-draw and etch what they want even though you are stealing someone elses art would you do it for the money?

3.  When does the customer become wrong?

[prestonservco 26]

I like the one without the basket.

[leadermon 0]

So the basket was your design and the second one is from someone else ?

I will "play" with other art I don't have a license for but won't sell or give the file away. I would not poach someone else's work and I think you were in the right.

The money in this industry is in the design and intellectual property. I used to do video work and spent way too much time chasing people using my clips in violation of, or worse yet without, the license agreement. If we steal from one another..we all loose. Hell, I will sign my work over if someone asks..most of the time. Just don't take it and call it your own.

Tell them to pound sand and/or get the license to use. I wouldn't balk either. BTW..the large car 631 wall vinyl I don't own. I will never sell that as it would bring the average customer to tears to install. It's on my wall above my own work station.

[Guest manwayvan]

1st off the customer is always wrong but they pay so we all agree to let them think their right.I prefer the second just because I like boarders but I like the simplistic of the top design..it fits the older style more I think..but first off is this for the door that cost more than my house? If so your a brave man to even attempt to blast sand at something that expensive.

[wwpro 1]

Using that way of thinking this cannot be reproduced ever, because I assume someone, one time came up with the design.

I know what you're trying to say, but if using 2 words and an oval and some curves is stealing someone's artwork, our field would be really limited.

[Guest Schramm]

As for the designs these both are mine.  I am not showing the one they want as it is someone else's design.  I have no issues designing my own as I do it daily..  My issues with the cabinet company as they will not let me talk to the client, they want to dictate to me how it should be done then yell and scream at me for nothing.

The 2nd design is mine as well so the oval and 2words is not what I'm saying.  Below is the link to the design they want!

http://www.wgsartglass.com/cabinet_glass/collection/laundry.htm

[Guest Schramm]

Using that way of thinking this cannot be reproduced ever, because I assume someone, one time came up with the design.

I know what you're trying to say, but if using 2 words and an oval and some curves is stealing someone's artwork, our field would be really limited.

While I agree in part, if you drew it and some else stole it just because they could is that fair?

This is deeper then words the design in my last post is what it is all about.  I have my own imagination so why wouldn't I want to do it and know it's mine and not just a copy?  That to me is a cop out.

[harmfulgraphics 1]

My issues with the cabinet company as they will not let me talk to the client, they want to dictate to me how it should be done then yell and scream at me for nothing.

Did the cabinet company hire you?  If they did, wouldn't that make them the client?

Harm

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Using that way of thinking this cannot be reproduced ever, because I assume someone, one time came up with the design.

I know what you're trying to say, but if using 2 words and an oval and some curves is stealing someone's artwork, our field would be really limited.

I believe that particular restroom sign is in the public domain.

[Guest Schramm]

My issues with the cabinet company as they will not let me talk to the client, they want to dictate to me how it should be done then yell and scream at me for nothing.

Did the cabinet company hire you?  If they did, wouldn't that make them the client?

Harm

Normally I talk to the homeowner and then do the work for the cabinet company.  Right now I do work for about 12.  I tell them up front that sometimes talking to their client helps me understand what will work best and I never have an issue.  This guy I do direct business with as I use him to cut my frame designs on a CNC router that he owns.  Problem is that he is a friggin know it all!

So I will give you this senerio, his client wants the design from the online glass etching company and I said I wasn't going to steal the design.  A month passes and he comes to me and says that is what she wants so cant this one time you do it?  I said no but I can design her something that may work.  I supplied him with 4 designs of which my least favorite was the laundry basket.  They chose the laundry basket because it was a scene and on a shorter piece of glass say 50"T x 24"W this would be ideal.  This glass is 84"T with and arch and 27"W leaving it hard to layout as the proportions don't work out well.  Normally I would decline the job but told him I would do it as long as he had 100% approval.  The homeowner was force fed this design and she doesn't 100% like it but he will not take any other design to her.

Last night I told him that I am passing on the job

[rrc1962 0]

Below is the link to the design they want!

http://www.wgsartglass.com/cabinet_glass/collection/laundry.htm

I like the one with oval, but they are both better than the one in the link.

[Guest Schramm]

Using that way of thinking this cannot be reproduced ever, because I assume someone, one time came up with the design.

I know what you're trying to say, but if using 2 words and an oval and some curves is stealing someone's artwork, our field would be really limited.

I believe that particular restroom sign is in the public domain.

John is right on the money.  That design and a number like it were released of any copyrights back in the 80's.  The original designer probably made a boat load of money.  That art is Royalty FREE.

Honestly and I am not pointing a finger but if people that want in this business don't know how to design they really should either take a class at night at a local college or go to work for a company and get a regular paycheck.  I don't say this to be rude but there will be a time (more often then not) when customers will come to you (once again this is aimed at no one) and say here is what I want this to say can you lay it out for me.  If you cannot do that, how do you plan on running a business?  In real life 50% of your business will be design but if you don't know how to do that you will constantly be stuck cutting pirated decals at $4 a pop on ebay...  Honestly is that how a business should be ran?  I think the majority of us on here have basic knowledge of design and layout but if you are one of the people that don't - educate yourself, ask questions and get to the point where you can say WOW I did that?  Anyone can steal a design, anyone can profit off the sweat of others but to be successful you have to have drive.

By no means am I perfect, don't claim to be and I falter as much as anyone.  I am very good at Corel Draw but I switched over to Mac so now I use Illustrator CS4 and I am taking classes at my daughters computer art class just to get the hang of the differences.  There is no shame in not knowing, but I have no respect for someone that wont try to learn and just fed themselves off of others....

[Guest Schramm]

Below is the link to the design they want!

http://www.wgsartglass.com/cabinet_glass/collection/laundry.htm

I like the one with oval, but they are both better than the one in the link.

I hate the one in the link and I know the guy and I have all the art that he does and can re-produce the same stuff that he makes HOWEVER I do not have nor do I want the washboard.  Yuck!

[BannerJohn 1,324]

I think you were smart to pass....in the end it's the person who has to live with it that you have to make happy. And if you force something on them that they really don't want, the more they look at it, the more they won't like it.

Let someone with less scruples steal the design and do it. IT's not like you are hurting for work.

[Guest Schramm]

John,

Your right and that is why I told them to come and pick it up today UNDONE!  I am the only glass etching company in my area and I don't know any for about 100 miles around me.  I do business with a lot of people and in the 2 years since I have been back in Illinois I have never had one time where this happened before.  I like money as much as the next guy however I am not going to steal to get it and I do not feel good giving junk to a customer that they do not want based on the promise that they will like it.  This glass is $2000 and while I hold no responsibility to what would happen if they didn't like it, I feel a ethical obligation to do what is right over personal gain!