Is the saying "Not of this world" or NOTW copyrighted?

[prettybird 0]

Hello, does anyone know if the saying "Not of this world" or the NOTW sign is copyrighted?  I had these items for sale on one of my sites and someone just emailed me and said this:

I am writing to inform you that your use of "NOTW" and/or the phrase "Not of This World" infringes our copyrights and trademark rights. We demand that you immediately cease and desist all manufacture, sale, and/or offer for sale of "NOTW" and/or "Not of This World" labeled products, and that you cease and desist any and all other infringing use of "NOTW" and/or "Not of This World".We reserve the right to take all legal action necessary to protect our rights.

info@c28.com

I've seen a lot of other people selling these (especially the NOTW) on ebay and stuff. 

Anyone know?

Thanks!

[kyjeeper 1]

How very christian of them.  Do they have proof of a trademark of the phrase?

[boomerbabe 0]

On this site http://www.uspto.gov/index.jsp I found Not of This World and NOTW both trademarked to a company in California. If someone else other than the company that owns the trademark is selling then they will likely get the same email you received. To save yourself a legal hassle, I would stop selling these items. Just advice, not a legal opinion.

PJ aka boomerbabe

[Guest crshirts]

I believe it is copyrighted.....they have a website

for clothing line.

Carl

[kyjeeper 1]

On this site http://www.uspto.gov/index.jsp I found Not of This World and NOTW both trademarked to a company in California. If someone else other than the company that owns the trademark is selling then they will likely get the same email you received. To save yourself a legal hassle, I would stop selling these items. Just advice, not a legal opinion.

PJ aka boomerbabe

Good find!  I second this advice, while "not of this world" is technically from a bible verse, it sounds like they have no problem going after people who use it.

[prettybird 0]

Seems kind of strange that they could copyright a bible verse but I think I will stop selling it to avoid any hassles. I did ask if they could send me more information but I haven't had a response from them yet.  Thanks for the input!

[midwaste 4]

I'm willing to bet that if you put "John 18:36" next to or under it, you'd be ok.  At that point, it becomes a quote, not a brand, and you should be fine. 

I cannot believe that the USPTO allowed a Marked Drawing Code 1 (typed drawing, basically the words alone, with no special logotyping) on the words "not of this world"!  However, the trademark only refers to clothing, not signage, etc.  I'm not sure if that gives you a leg to stand on or not.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, that's just my 2 cents.  Personally, I'd call their bluff.

[bizzytop 1]

I had a guy pull the same thing with some shirts I was selling with OMFG, he produced a copy of the trademark paper work, the worst part was that those letters have been around for a long time and he submitted the paper work about a year before he emailed me.  Guess no one before him had thought about submitting the paper work for it, he did and well now he owns them.  Sad....  I looked him up on the patent website and there it was...  I would stay way from this you don't need the head aches.

[Guest Schramm]

They are copywritted and protected as such!  I would stop selling them as they could get you banned from ebay!

[tlzimmerman 11]

Looks like it refers to clothing and tattoo type stuff to me, i would call em on it if you are selling decals.

If you put the bible verse..then I think that would double protect you, personally I think they are chasing straws, their trademark should apply to the phrase only as used on clothing, and their logo for use in advertisement for anything.

Not a lawyer....nor do I play one on tv, but I think they are overstepping.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

they have a trademark, but not a copyright. You can't copyright something that is in the public domain,or something that you didn't create.

So, the phrase itself, as long as it is not an actual copy of their logo, or representing their products, is fine.

This is how Apple computers was able to use the Apple name and image for years even though the Beatles had trademarked it in 1967. BUT once they started selling music, they got sued.

Ford motor company owns the term MUSTANG as  a car brand, but there are plenty of products out there with the MUSTANG name on them...the list goes on.

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

Ebay was taking down peoples auctions because they had the term "wall words"  in their titles,,  These were people selling wall art decals

WALL WORDS Is a registered trademark  for this company     I noticed it in the Ebay community forums. People who were taken down were  complaining.   I still see a bunch up though.

http://www.wallwords.com/

[Guest YHC]

See I think this kind of crap is stupid. I can see if someone was using the word or term to pretend they are that business but to not be able to discride something your selling is a bunch of crap I'll break out the dictionary and just start trademarking the words in it.

Sorry for the rant but this kind of stuff gets under my skin. Theres a point when your trying to protect your business name and image and theres just plain trying to be a pain in the ass.

Ebay was taking down peoples auctions because they had the term "wall words"  in their titles,,  These were people selling wall art decals

WALL WORDS Is a registered trademark  for this company     I noticed it in the Ebay community forums. People who were taken down were  complaining.   I still see a bunch up though.

http://www.wallwords.com/

[Guest Schramm]

Long before I ever bought my first cutter (actually what got me interested in them 10+ years ago) was the company Wall Words!  I use to buy everything for my decorative painting business from them.  They are the ones that started the wall art revolution many many years ago.  I dont know how in the world you can copywrite simple words HOWEVER when it is specific to a business that is as established as Wall Words that may be how.

I think a fine line in the sand is drawn when talking copywrite and trademark.  If it is a R registered trademark it deserves the same respect as you would give a copywrite IMO.  Legally I do not know.  I keep to myself and never talk about the questionable on the internet and if I was to do it (not saying I do) I would never post a pic.  I will say this and this is not an issue...  I have many designer mirrors in my house (I dont post pics - nor do I offer it to the masses) of logo mirrors of companies that I really like  Oakley is my favorite when it comes to glasses and I did a black mirror with a silver O (oakleys trademark) that hangs above my desk but I wouldnt and dont do these for others though I am asked all the time!

The big one to watch out for (not the only one but the BD) is the Disney Empire!  Even there fonts are copywritten and many a company has been sued for cutting there images.  When I was a decorative painter and first bought a plotter I used it for furniture design and Disney furniture was HOTTTTTTT!!!  I never got sued, but I did get a letter from them.  I was young and dumb back then and didnt understand that it wasnt ok, but I have grown a long way in business without having to steal others artwork, if you know what I mean!

[tlzimmerman 11]

they have a trademark, but not a copyright. You can't copyright something that is in the public domain,or something that you didn't create.

So, the phrase itself, as long as it is not an actual copy of their logo, or representing their products, is fine.

This is how Apple computers was able to use the Apple name and image for years even though the Beatles had trademarked it in 1967. BUT once they started selling music, they got sued.

Ford motor company owns the term MUSTANG as  a car brand, but there are plenty of products out there with the MUSTANG name on them...the list goes on.

Only thing I would add to this, is or representing products in the same line of work, their trademarks specifically state clothing, they have associated that phrase with their brand of clothing, so you can no longer use that phrase.

However I think decals is another industry, it is definitely not clothing, and doesn't look like they have a trademark that covers it or are in the business.

Same thing with Nike and Just do it, you can't make a shirt that says Just Do It on it.......they have the phrase trademarked because they have associated it with their brand.

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

Here is just an example of Chryslers rules on EBAY if you get caught...  

and notice this phrase"

You don

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

Here is EBAYS VERO test. /tutorial

See if you can pass it.  It is tricky

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/verotutorial/intro.html

[BannerJohn 1,324]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102556/

[boomerbabe 0]

Not of This World registered 2005

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

you see this design alot also and different versions,  but EBAY took down my daughters auctions for it.

  they own the copyright to it.  this is their's version of it.. .. the kids kneeling

http://cgi.ebay.com/Christian-key-chain-Little-girl-at-cross-mix-match_W0QQitemZ200338579980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea51c220c

http://cgi.ebay.com/Christian-religious-T-shirt-apparel-Every-knee-shall-bo_W0QQitemZ200404315704QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9072e38

[BannerJohn 1,324]

There is sometimes a big difference between what is legal and what is right. Should a company be allowed to trademark a common phrase that has been around for 2000 years? Probably not. Does the law allow it? You betcha.

Kids were calling McDonalds 'Mickey D's' for years, then McDonalds trademarks it. Its a lousy world. Money rules.

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

I asked this question once, but at least I asked.  LOL   and here is the answer  for Git-R-Done

Larry the Cable Guy‏

From:  Adrian Stumpf (adrianstumpf@hotmail.com)  

Sent: Sun 3/15/09 11:42 AM

Hi Carolyn,

Larry forwarded me your letter.  Yes, that famous phrase is copywritten.

Thanks,

Adrian Stumpf

Git-R-Done Productions

[Guest Schramm]

I passed the test with all of them correct, but I should as I go to ebay seminars, webinars and so on.  Before I moved to Florida (about 7 years ago) I used to buy out unpaid storage units and sell all the contents much of it on ebay.  When I moved to florida I sold the business and the user name and feedback for a nice sum of cash.  I had 72,000+ feedback and it was 100% positive.  It is very very hard to understand ebays rules and you need to take and sit in on the webinars as they are enlightning to what you can and cannot do.  I have gotten permissions from ebay through VeRO based only on a get it in writing PRIOR to doing it.  If the owner of a trademark or copywrite gives you written permission and you follow the request you will be fine, if not you will be banned quickly or if nothing else the items will be deleted and you will loose both time and money.

I had a item recently get the boot as it had a Honda engine on it but Honda was not the manufacturer of the item and so ebay sent me a note and cancelled the auction.  This stuff happens but the more you know, the less likely it is!

[BannerJohn 1,324]

I asked this question once, but at least I asked.  LOL  and here is the answer  for Git-R-Done

Larry the Cable Guy‏

From:  Adrian Stumpf (adrianstumpf@hotmail.com)  

Sent: Sun 3/15/09 11:42 AM

Hi Carolyn,

Larry forwarded me your letter.  Yes, that famous phrase is copywritten.

Thanks,

Adrian Stumpf

Git-R-Done Productions

lol..there is no such term as 'copywritten'..it should be copyrighted. I hope Adrian knows more about the law then he/she does the English language.

[prettybird 0]

Here is a link to what they sent me when I asked them for more information:

http://www.c28.com/c28_copyright.html

I see a lot of people on ebay selling the exact same version of the NOTW letters that looks like this company's logo.