whats up with oracal

[ajgarber70 0]

i have used the bgs and when i make 2 or 3 layer stickers and i wet it down with water and soap i never have a problem with it but with the new oracal i am useing when i wet it to stick the next layer to it the backing paper absorbs the water and after it dryes out the sticker is just wavey and crinkeled up why. 

[MaderDesign 3]

Just a question, which Oracal are you using? And here is another. Why are you wetting it down with your layering them on top of each other? My understanding is only time to wet app is when applying the vinyl to a car or object. Another way would be registration marks to line them up without doing it wet.

[ajgarber70 0]

it is the 651 i am useing water in a spray bottel with a drop or 2 of dawn i know i need reg marks but cant seem to figure that out i have tryed to make a square box out to the side's of the project but it wont show up when i cut it. im useing signblazer and it dont have the reg. marks with it plus i have a internet job to make some 2 layer 22x36 numbers so i need to layer them so the customer can just apply it all in 1

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

I thought Dawn was a no no because of the wetting agents and the grease cutters attacking the adhesive? 

[ajgarber70 0]

might be right on that i just do it because i see where people say to use a drop or 2 or soap and before i got in to this the local signshop always told me to do it that way??? the problem i have is if the backing paper on oracal gets wet then when it dries it looks very wavey not flat just like a bunch of pot holes all over?? the water never soaked through the bgs backing paper and always turned out awesome when finished...plus anytime i try to layer dry its either crooked or full of air bubbles

[midwaste 4]

I tried layering 2-color wet on the backing paper one time, and got the same results, the paper was all wrinkled up.

Not sure why this wouldn't happen with BGS, though.

You should learn how to do dry layering if you are going to do it on the backer.  The reason your registration squares might not be coming up/cutting in SBE is because they arent exactly the same color as the color you are cutting.

Alternately, you could build something like the Speedpress: http://www.speedpress.com/products.asp?id=16

Practice makes perfect..

[ajgarber70 0]

thanks i'm trying to layer them dry but it is getting bad now i am trying to put the last layer on the middel layer first i'm getting it lined up good but when i try to pull the tape off it is lifting the oracal vinyl up just enough for it to get air under it and then it is full of bubbels but no bubbles between the two layers just the layer that's on the backing papper??? i am useing the clear transferrite 1310 could that be the problem now trying to do it dry it almost seems like it sticks to hard to the oracal but releases fine from chrome??

[ajgarber70 0]

how do you know if you get a bad roll of vinyl because it almost seems as if it shrinks up when i pull it off the roll before i stick it to anything and it has bubbels in it from where it shrinks up i think. i like the way the oracal weeds out but with as much trouble im having with it i think it might be better to stick with the bgs. i have to get a roll of white and i am thinking about giving it another try with oracal from the local place in nashville instead of the place online i got it. it just seems weird because bgs,lg,schein and avery i have not had this problem at all. so that why i am thinking now it just might be a bad roll

[Guest HowardI]

Just a little bit of FYI on the reg marks.

Use a plus sign or x or something for reg marks and make them a color that is NOT part of the design.

When going to the cut screen choose the color you're wanting to cut AND the reg mark color (use the control key on the keyboard while clicking on the colors to turn them on and off individually)

This will allow you to cut each layer with the reg marks.

Application fluid has the surfactants needed to do a wet application without the ingredients that destroy the adhesive on the vinyl. 

Howard Irwin

Support Specialist

US Cutter

425-481-3555

888-298-8143

  - Option 2

[tekcorps 50]

Wow, layering wet on your table. That is heading for disaster. Backing paper will wrinkle when it has been wet.

Try peeling off the backing paper when it has any to the slightest moisture in it. Be pulling your hair out in seconds!

Anyone that has experienced this knows what I mean.

With the others on this one ajgarber70, registration marks. Figure you out a system that works for you and practice it dry. Only way to roll.  

[Booper 2]

You gotta do it dry brother, go on Youtube and type in 4 layer decal and watch the video of how the guy does it, he peels the backing paper off and repositions it so that the registration marks are exposed and lines it up with the lower layer, then peels the backing off and repeats the same process for each layer.  Notice he is using Oracal 651. In my opinion you will be happier with the Oracal than the BGS long term.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

You gotta do it dry brother, go on Youtube and type in 4 layer decal and watch the video of how the guy does it, he peels the backing paper off and repositions it so that the registration marks are exposed and lines it up with the lower layer, then peels the backing off and repeats the same process for each layer.  Notice he is using Oracal 651. In my opinion you will be happier with the Oracal than the BGS long term.

+1

[ajgarber70 0]

thanks everyone i will try everything today watch the video and try some more on getting the reg. marks to work i got the marks to show up last night by welding them but it then become part of the design that i did not like. so i will try the other way thanks everyone.

[ajgarber70 0]

well i give up on oracal i just cant seem to get it to work no matter what i try to stick it to it just wont stick wheather im trying to make a 2 layer sticker with it or just by it's self. it's like i stick it and it is good then i walk away come back and it is just full of littel pin hole bubbles it just wont stick so do you all think it might just be a bad roll?? i have never had this happen with bgs lg,or avery everything goes good with that. but this oracal is about to hit the burn pit it is the 651 brilliant blue..

[midwaste 4]

well i give up on oracal i just cant seem to get it to work no matter what i try to stick it to it just wont stick wheather im trying to make a 2 layer sticker with it or just by it's self. it's like i stick it and it is good then i walk away come back and it is just full of littel pin hole bubbles it just wont stick so do you all think it might just be a bad roll?? i have never had this happen with bgs lg,or avery everything goes good with that. but this oracal is about to hit the burn pit it is the 651 brilliant blue..

What are you applying it on?  Are the bubbles there when you first apply it?

[ajgarber70 0]

i have tryed just about all the ways possiable when i do it wet i cant push out the bubbles.when i do it dry it turns out great but after a min or so bubbles just start popping up everywhere. i even poke them with the x-acto knife to let the air out and it still wont lay down flat it's almost like there might not be enough adhesive is spots all over the vinyl. does that make since? thats why i have asked if it might be a bad roll this is the first roll of oracal i have worked with so i do not have another roll of oracal to compare to. but like i said before i have had no trouble with other brands just like doing it wet on the backing paper i have never had a problem with other brands absorbing the water to make it look like it has pot holes all over.the only thing i see diff. is all the other brands backing paper is very slick as if it lets the water run off without absorbing the water and messing it up but the oracal backing paper is more ruff feeling like paper and absorbs it right up and when it dries it sorda shrinks it some what and causes it to be all ruff.. i thank everyone for your time and help...

[midwaste 4]

Any vinyl backer papers face is going to be wax-coated.  I haven't used many other types of vinyl besides oracal, but all backer paper is just that, paper.  If you get water on the cut edges or the back, its going to absorb and wrinkle.

I would definitely try a different roll of Oracal, I have never had vinyl stick flat, then later pucker up.  Nor have I ever popped any bubbles and not had them stick.

[ajgarber70 0]

thanks midwaste that's the boat i am in. i to have never had vinyl that sticks great then bubbles arise later and never have i had vinyl that when i stick a hole in the bubble it still wont stick back down,even with vinyl i use to have made at the local signshops over the years before i got in to it i have always been able to stick a pin hole and it lay flat and stick thanks another question i have is when you guys and gals buy new vinyl do you start working with it at the beginning of the roll or do you roll some out then start with it. i have been cutting off about 1 foot to get the scratched up off then i use it. also what is the best tape to use with oracal 651 i have aplitape 4075 that i got from us cutter when i bought my cutter i would like to buy some clear so what does everyone reccomend on the tape to use. thanks

[tekcorps 50]

I'd have to ask what you are using for liquid since you are laying it down wet. Also, are you getting all the liquid pushed out from under the layer?

[Booper 2]

Im stumped brother, Ive done layered decals that have sat around for months and never had that happen in Oracal. There is always a chance that it is a bad roll of vinyl but in the world of vinyl makers Oracal is one of the biggest and the best. The fact that you PREFER BGS makes me think its more operator error than vinyl issue, and that is in no way meant as a dig at you, but I would wager that if you took a pole of all the veteran cutters on this site they would pick Oracal over BGS 1000 to 1. 

Im hoping there is a really easy quick answer to your issue, but it may be one of those situations were someone with more experience needs to come and watch you work to point out the problem. But like I said its totally possible the very first roll of Oracal you have ever used is bad, anythings possible.

[ajgarber70 0]

the oracal is the middle layer i have used both spray bottle of water with a drop or 2 of dish soap like i have read people have said to do plus thats what i was always told by the local signshops when they use to make my sticker's before i got in to it with my own cutter.and i have used the act/on tac plus i have tryed doing it dry same results but when i do it dry it turns out great till the bubbles arise minutes later. i just think i have a bad roll or something. like i said before it is my first roll or oracal so i dont have nothing to compare it to other than i have not had this happen with any other brand i bought the oracal from signwarehouse i would have bought it from us cutter but i had to have it fast.

[Booper 2]

PM me your address and I'll send you a couple feet of some oracal I have here. 

[ajgarber70 0]

i do love the oracal very easy to work with it lays flat on the tabel and easy to weed unlike bgs it's on a small roll so when you cut it off the roll it is curled up wont lay flat hard to work with. i think i will go to nashville this week and buy another roll of oracal white then i might be able to see if it is me or if i got a bad roll thanks for all your help everyone..and thanks to us cutter also for the forum and great things they have as well.  

[ajgarber70 0]

OK I HAD FORGOT THAT THE LAST PERSON THAT LETTERED MY CAR GAVE ME A PIECE OF BLACK 651 AND A PIECE OF FLUORESCENT YELLOW.BOTH ORACAL. I MADE A 2 LAYER STICKER WITH THEM THEY DONE GREAT. I DONE 1 DRY AND 1 WET AND IT DID NOT MESS UP THE BACKING PAPER AT ALL.THEN I MADE 2 MORE WITH THE BLUE AS THE TOP LAYER ON BLACK 1 DRY 1 WET BLUE STILL DID NOT DO RIGHT.IT WILL NOT STICK DOWN RIGHT. IT'S LIKE THE GLUE ON THE BACK OF IT AINT COMPLETLY ALL OVER IT'S LIKE IT IS MISTED LIKE SPRAY PAINT SO IN SPOTS IT WONT STICK. MAKES SINCE TO ME NOW. OTHER THAN THAT I NOTICED THE BLACK AND YELLOW ARE VERY SMOOTH AND GLOOSY AND THE BLUE IS VERY RUFF TO THE TOUCH AND DULL. SO NOW WITH THIS EXPERIANCE DO YOU ALL THINK IT MUST HAVE BEEN A BAD ROLL.

[midwaste 4]

I think the blue is Oracal 631, now that you said it is matte.  It has a low-tack adhesive designed for temporary installation.