jbartwork 1 Posted June 16, 2009 ok I havent posted about bubbles yet and I havent found anything asking this. So I'm working on some magnets with 3 colors. on my second layer Ive been getting a lot of those tiny bubbles, I'm wondering what you guys do when it happens to you, Do you redo them, leave them etc? their not the huge bubbles just the ones you can see when you look at it sideways at the light. thanks in advance for your input Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
midwaste 4 Posted June 16, 2009 Make sure you clean the vinyl before you start laying the next colors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tlzimmerman 11 Posted June 16, 2009 I use them...they go away on their own in time. If they are noticable you can pop em pretty easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcorps 50 Posted June 16, 2009 jbartwork... sounds to me that your technique when removing app tape MIGHT be causing the small bubbles you describe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbartwork 1 Posted June 16, 2009 I clean each layer as I lay them, I havent had any trouble with bubbles until this job, I have no I idea what is going on this time, Im not doing anything different, Im pulling the tape straight across itself doubling is over with a steady pace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcorps 50 Posted June 16, 2009 New or different app tape? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbartwork 1 Posted June 16, 2009 nope, the only thing different is just different colors, same tape, same vinyl type etc. any other ideas or tips? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcorps 50 Posted June 16, 2009 Only thing I could tell you is to watch and notice how your app tape reacts when you put pull pressure on it. When you lay the tape back over itself pull at a 45 degree angle all the way until app tape is off. Notice when you pull that your tape does not start to pucker as you pull the stress puckering can cause tiny bubbles at times. If it does pucker a bit just reposition your hand a tad until the puckers are gone. It is a little technical but you will know what I'm talking about when you watch the tape. There are many other factors but technique is very important. Other factors include, temp, humidity, age of vinyl and even color. Same factors with tape as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarconastic 29 Posted June 17, 2009 45 deg? that's way to high an angle. Unless your referring to the angle down from graphic, then I agree I pull app tape Straight back on top of itself. This eliminates any vertical pull up on the underlying vinyl. here's a pic I found on the web. Good Luck Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest round2racing Posted June 17, 2009 I pull my app tape like that and I still get little bubbles sometimes. I have used a wallpaper seam roller that seems to work nearly all of them out though without dragging a squeegee across the vinyl. It also works really good at pressing down the edges of the lettering and graphics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcorps 50 Posted June 17, 2009 This is a perfect example. Yes, lay app tape back over itself. But note, this image is not pulling at a 45 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarconastic 29 Posted June 17, 2009 What I was referring to when I read 45 deg, was to the angle of pulling the app tape UP the vinyl. You can see in the picture they are pulling down flat on the vinyl back at basically a '0' or '180 deg angle, not sure which is correct :-) Another note to add to this scenario. the tack of the app tape you are using is also important. I see a lot of people recommending 'High Tack' tape in here for various reasons. But when your trying to Layer, or apply vinyl, high tack can be a royal PIA, So check what App tape your using is appropriate for the job your doing. As a last note, spraying the app tape (paper only) with Application fluid after applying the decal and letting it it set for a minute or two will greatly decrease the pulling tension when you remove it. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcorps 50 Posted June 17, 2009 Agreed. What I do sometimes, depending on as you stated, tape type, brand etc... is I soak a paper towel with water and lightly wipe down the newly installed vinyl that still has app tape on it... let it set for 20-30 seconds... then it peels off like butter! Just don't leave it too long! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest round2racing Posted June 18, 2009 So, its the pulling of the app tape that causes the goosebumps? Great information guys, thanks!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarconastic 29 Posted June 18, 2009 From what I have found if you are applying the vinyl correctly, following all the steps for a proper application then there will be very few bubbles. First and foremost is cleanliness, make sure the work surface is clean, Use an alcohol based cleaner, not ammonia (Windex is BAD). If applying dry it's all in the technique you use to squeegee the vinyl down, this takes practice and the first couple dozen you do will inevitably have bubbles. Most of these will disappear within a few days of application. also make sure you are applying enough pressure when you place them on. Looking at the videos that several have posted here and on Youtube, it looks like they are just swiping over the vinyl real quick, but with experience comes strength, they are putting what seems to a new installer, a LOT of pressure on the squeegee. You really have to put some decent pressure down on it to get proper adhesive adhesion. Experienced installers figure out how to apply the most pressure with the least amount work, using the squeegee to it's proper advantage. If your applying wet, there are a few more considerations. First is again technique, working all the app fluid outside to remove it, while at the same time applying the same type of pressure to get the adhesive to bond. Next is time. Don't get in a big hurry when applying wet, even though you have all the app fluid out, there is still a time frame were you need to let the vinyl set for a couple minutes to get the best adhesion. I always spray down the app tape with app fluid and let it set for a few minutes prior to removal. This softens the app tape adhesive but at the same time is giving the vinyl adhesive a chance to bond better with the substrate. All adhesive have a period of time to set before they reach full adhesion. For most it is 24 hours or so and they are set pretty good. That's why we tell people not to use their wipers on rear window installations until the following day, it could conceivably peel the vinyl loose around the edges more than it would in a day or so. Al the things in this thread combined are what you have to figure out, to get the cleanest installation. But the best and most important tool to prevent bubbles is you. Your experience will start to build and your installation technique will improve and all of a sudden your installing 2' x 6' words on the side of a van without even thinking about it, and spending a lot less time popping bubbles or fixing wrinkles etc. It will come and patience is the best asset you have. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbartwork 1 Posted June 18, 2009 Im stupid ok so that job was driving me nuts because I tried laying 6 different car magnets and every one came out with tons of tiny bubbles. I finally just started to look up stuff on the internet and found a place that would do them cheaper so I ordered some. the next day I had to move the "scraps" from the day before and to my surprise almost every bubble was gone. The lesson I learned from this experience is just have PATIENCE. thanks for everyone that has posted to help me and everyone else just starting out in this venture. my advice to others just starting is to try something out before you get the orders so you know what your up against, and to see what time will solve by itself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
