Professor Bauman

[FC8600-75] Nearly impossible to draw on center of sheet

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Hello experts and experienced users,

Recently I've acquired a Graphtec FC8600-75 and after fixing the machine up a bit and making sure it runs the latest firmware and everything works I'm still running into some small issues.

The main issue being that centering my designs in Cutting Master 4 and 5 does not result in centered drawings in the machine. I'm only using loose sheets of 650x500mm for art drawings and it appears that I cannot use any of the centering tools within cutting master itself. I have to manually eyeball to get my design in the center of the preview and then subtract Y-21mm and X-28.5 to get my designs centered.

I also had to put tape on the machine to make sure the Y-axis wouldn't shift.

I haven't found a cause for this discrepancy yet, but I'm assuming this issue exists because the sensors are spaced out and do not measure the exact position of the paper I'm using?

All offsets are set to zero and I haven't been able to find a solution for this issue yet.

Just to make sure:

- My designs are placed in an Illustrator file with the same dimensions as the physical paper
- In Cutting Master 5 I've set the media size to this same size
- Origin has to be 'Lower Right' to allow for manual placement of the file (centered doesn't center it correctly)
- The design is a lot smaller than the media size, say 300x300mm so there is enough whitespace around it
- I'm using custom pens in the cutting tool holder (this should only offset in the Y-axis, but it doesn't)
- The offsets appear in both axes

Is this correct behaviour?
Would there be a way to manually set an offset in the machine or software?

The settings in the screenshot result in a perfectly centered drawing on paper, but in the preview you can clearly see it's offset from the center. If I center the design in the software, it will be offset towards the top and left side in reality so it's always a hassle to get a design perfectly centered, usually wasting at least one sheet of expensive paper.

 

image.thumb.png.84fc8e79b91336394bb37689b6003ff1.png

 

PS, the machine has not decided, that despite the calculated offset it wants to place the design some extra 10mm to the left again. I'm going absolutely crazy, wasting another sheet of expensive paper. I now have one sheet left to produce this artwork. I did a test on a cheap test sheet that I cut in the exact same dimensions and it was spot on. I replaced the sheet for the real deal, making sure everything is absolutely perfectly aligned and nope, computer says no.

PS2, if there is a market for second hand parts, I am willing to take out the board and the motors and sell those for an honest amount and replace those parts with my own choice of closed loop stepper motors and motor controller. Does anyone know what's the best place for me to sell these parts?

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I have never tried to draw on sheets or ever use sheets with my Graphtec. But have you calibrated the cutter to the cutting software?  As in cut/draw a 3" x 3" square and make sure that it measures exactly at 3" x 3"?  That adjustment is in Resolution.  Mine is set at 1016 in/steps.  I have a FC7000 and FC8000. but the same adjustment is made in Resolution in my cutting software.. I use Flexi software. And Graphtec Pro Studio, which is also Flexi software. So you are putting your cutter head exactly where you want it and you are pushing the ORIGIN button on the cutter? You must push the Origin button before sending a job. That Origin point is the measuring point for your design.  Most people here are cutting vinyl on 15"-30"  wide vinyl rolls. Only a couple hand fulls answer questions.  Your cutter will not cut past the pinch rollers unless, you use expand or turn off the pinch roller sensor. I don't know of anyone on here, doing what you are trying to do. 

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I have not used your cutter, but most cutting software cuts as close to the origin as possible. IE if you put a small circle in the middle of your drawing, when you cut it, it will cut at the origin point you set on the cutter. If you want it to cut in the center you need to set your software to WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get)

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I have never tried to draw on sheets or ever use sheets with my Graphtec. But have you calibrated the cutter to the cutting software?  As in cut/draw a 3" x 3" square and make sure that it measures exactly at 3" x 3"?  That adjustment is in Resolution.  Mine is set at 1016 in/steps.  I have a FC7000 and FC8000. but the same adjustment is made in Resolution in my cutting software.. I use Flexi software. And Graphtec Pro Studio, which is also Flexi software. So you are putting your cutter head exactly where you want it and you are pushing the ORIGIN button on the cutter? You must push the Origin button before sending a job. That Origin point is the measuring point for your design.  Most people here are cutting vinyl on 15"-30"  wide vinyl rolls. Only a couple hand fulls answer questions.  Your cutter will not cut past the pinch rollers unless, you use expand or turn off the pinch roller sensor. I don't know of anyone on here, doing what you are trying to do. 

 

Thanks a lot, I did some checking with your comments and those of @darcshadow but the calibration for the steps/mm is spot on, I quickly designed a ruler and made a testprint:
PXL_20230412_122403897-01.thumb.jpeg.cd2ab915ee2f9491541a07c2c5b4ad82.jpeg

 

I then did some checking on setting the origin in the machine. First I have set 'Expand' to +10 which expands the canvas in all directions. After that I went down and chose the option 'Area', which allows you to set a zero point for the XY 0,0 point. After that it asks you to define the top-right corner to which I simply move the machine all the way until it stops by itself and set that as the top-right corner.

Then I go into Cutting Master 5 and click 'Poll Size'.

After his I center my design on the paper and click 'Output':
image.thumb.png.0ed2cb4c9b538db300650b13cf97ecfa.png

 

It then comes out like this on a 500x650mm sheet:
image.thumb.png.4888de18a19d1034b93517d2f2a9189b.png

 

Left spacing is 51.5mm right spacing is 48.5mm which makes the width of the rectangle 400mm wide. The entire image is still offset by 1.5mm

I'm currently trying to draw a similar image with the tool offset by 1.5mm towards the Y+ axis under 'Conditions'. I'll update once I know if that helps. The downside of manually setting the points is that the machine forgets this info when I place a new sheet. I would like to save these settings permanently...

A small update: setting the offset under 'Tools' helped me get rid of most of the misplacement along the Y-axis. The machine is not as accurate in the X-axis sadly. I'd still like to know if it's possible to save the manually set origins.

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I'm assuming poll size tells the machine to measure the paper? You still have to remember there is going to be unusable space at the end of the paper that the rollers hold onto and the machine is not going to account for this because in the vinyl world you don't worry about how much vinyl is at the end, you are just going to cut it off and continue to use the roll.

You are trying to use the machine as a plotter, which is not what it was designed for and thereby missing some of the abilities a true plotter would have. You seem to be getting pretty close to your goal, but as you've discovered it's just going to be a matter of trial and error to find the settings and conditions that work for you.

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I'm assuming poll size tells the machine to measure the paper? You still have to remember there is going to be unusable space at the end of the paper that the rollers hold onto and the machine is not going to account for this because in the vinyl world you don't worry about how much vinyl is at the end, you are just going to cut it off and continue to use the roll.

You are trying to use the machine as a plotter, which is not what it was designed for and thereby missing some of the abilities a true plotter would have. You seem to be getting pretty close to your goal, but as you've discovered it's just going to be a matter of trial and error to find the settings and conditions that work for you.

Well, maybe, but not completely. Graphtec offers a small range of pens and special settings to use a pen. I wasn't expecting it to be plug & play, but I already had to solder back a new USB connector and fix a whole host of other issues with the machine since nobody ever took any time to do maintenance on the poor thing.

I'm glad it's getting there. Your comment made me realize that to get my design in the correct spot in the X-direction, I would probably just have to write down the actual length instead of the polled length. I reckon that could work. I'll give it a try right now! Thanks for that insight :)

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Well, maybe, but not completely. Graphtec offers a small range of pens and special settings to use a pen. I wasn't expecting it to be plug & play, but I already had to solder back a new USB connector and fix a whole host of other issues with the machine since nobody ever took any time to do maintenance on the poor thing.

I'm glad it's getting there. Your comment made me realize that to get my design in the correct spot in the X-direction, I would probably just have to write down the actual length instead of the polled length. I reckon that could work. I'll give it a try right now! Thanks for that insight :)

Also bear in mind that the polled length or either axis is not measured by the actual edge of your paper. Meaning that the cutters poll is to define how much actual working space is within the cutting area between the rollers side to side and between what you tell it is the origin and when the back of the paper comes off the sensor on the back. You could easily place the paper to one side a bit and inadvertently throw off the side to side result or get the paper crooked and have problems that way. I don't use your brand, but my Summa has a sensor on the back and there is a given amount of space left at the end so that the vinyl/paper does not roll past the pinch rollers. Mine leaves about an inch on the back. 

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