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mistwist

FC8600 can't cut detailed designs

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I just bought this FC8600, new, and now after set up I can't cut my more detailed designs(It seems over 200 of my designs would have to be edited to work with the Graphtec). These are tested designs that I cut on a WAY to big Roland(64") and a Cricut. The Roland great, the Cricut does amazing. I bought this so I could get ahead on production while not tying up the Roland(thats why we originally bought the Cricut but business has outgrown its production capabilities) but at this point it I think I have wasted my money, I don't have time to edit 200 designs. I have ordered a 60 degree blade but I am not really hopeful at this point. I just won't cut clean and finish cuts.

So my question, how can it be that a Cricut and an ancient Roland can cut these designs but this can't? Is it me or is this cutter not just capable of cutting something this detailed? 

Current settings..
Force: 14
Speed: 5
Accel: 2
Offset: 0
 

Bison-MountainsPF.jpg

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That design is not really very detailed. It would cut fine even with an MH or SC2 unit !

Something ain't right. Wait a bit for a Graphtec user to chime in here with their ideas as to what might be happening.

 

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  Is this cutter brand new or new to you? I have a Graphtec FC7000 and a Graphtec FC8000, both 30" I have no problem cutting very detailed designs. That is my business niche'.  My designs are a lot more detailed than that.  You are not showing what your problem is.  You are not showing what the design looks like after cutting. We can tell a lot from looking at cut vinyl.  Too many people use wrong instructions when setting up blade depth. People think you use a credit card or post it notes to set blade depth and that is just wrong and too much blade exposed out of the blade holder. (Even after cutting for years).  You have no idea how many people will say The blade depth is correct," I used a credit card to set it" And that is about 10 times too much blade exposed out of the blade holder. "Or it is cutting the vinyl with barely a mark on the wax paper backing."  (That does not explain how far the blade is exposed out of the blade holder).    Make sure that you have not broken your blade tip off. Very easy to do, if too much blade is exposed out of the blade holder..  You should be doing TEST cuts from the Machine TEST feature before doing any design cutting, That is how you set up your cutter. The blade depth must be correct first, or all of your other settings will be off also. Show your TEST cuts.  (The Square and triangle) TEST cuts must be correct first. Without showing what is being cut, we have no idea what you are talking about.  Also, make sure you have the flange correctly holding down the lip of the blade holder.  We have seen that also,  Also make sure the cap is tight on the blade holder.  A lot of us cutters use a 60 degree blade for cutting everything. Setting blade depth is all about, using the least amount of blade exposed out of the blade holder. The correct combo is less blade, more force. 

  This works correctly for any vinyl cutter. To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing. You should barely see and feel the blade tip out of the blade holder. Regular sign vinyl is only 2-3 mil thick. You only cut with the very tip of the blade. When you think the blade is so far in the blade holder, that you think it would not even cut, that is probably correct. 

No mention which cutting software you are using,  That cutter came with Graphtec Pro Studio which is rebranded Flexi Sign Pro. (for windows) The best that you can get. 

You stated this cutter is new.. So, why haven't you contacted Graphtec tech support? They are your tech support. The cutter would be under warranty, if it was new.

 

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26 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

  Is this cutter brand new or new to you? I have a Graphtec FC7000 and a Graphtec FC8000, both 30" I have no problem cutting very detailed designs.  My designs are a lot more detailed than that.  You are not showing what your problem is.  You are not showing what the design looks like after cutting. Too many people use wrong instructions when setting up blade depth. People think you use a credit card or post it notes to set blade depth and that is just wrong and too much blade exposed out of the blade holder. (Even after cutting for years).  Make sure that you have not broken your blade tip off. Very easy to do, if too much blade is exposed out of the blade holder..  This is the correct way to set your blade depth. You should be doing TEST cuts from the Machine TEST feature before doing any design cutting, That is how you set up your cutter.  Show your TEST cuts.  (The Square and triangle) TEST cuts must be correct first. Without showing what is being cut, we have no idea what you are talking about. 

To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing. You should barely see and feel the blade tip out of the blade holder. Regular sign vinyl is only 2-3 mil thick. You only cut with the very tip of the blade. When you think the blade is so far in the blade holder, that you think it would not even cut, that is probably correct. 

No mention which cutting software you are using,  That cutter came with Graphtec Pro Studio which is rebranded Flexi Sign Pro. (for windows) The best that you can get. 

 

It is brand new. Problems include sharp points aren't sharp and if they are they are not completely cut, a TON of hang nails, and its nearly impossible to weed, where with he Cricut or the Roland it is one pull and it is done.

After reading your posts here last night I reset the blade depth, this was the results.... Notice the test cut, the lines on the triangles have hooks at the end. On the wolf the points were not cut completely, plus it had quite a few hang nails and was nearly impossible to weed.

Using Illustrator plugin, but CutMaster 4 produces the same results.

PXL_20220618_151819070.jpg

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Your TEST cut is not even correct. That is incorrect blade offset, shown in your user manual.   Make sure your cutting settings is either being ran from your cutter OR your cutting program.  Just because you change your settings in your software, does not mean it it changing it on the cutter.   I use Flexi software.  In my Graphtec menu is> BACKGROUND SETTINGS, There is CONDITION PRIORITY.. I make all of my changes in the Flexi program.  There is MANUAL OR PROGRAM.  I select PROGRAM in my CONDITION PRIORITY. I am running/making changes from the Flexi software program.  I also make all of my changes from the Graphtec Cutting Controller, right from my computer.  FORCE, SPEED, OFFSET,QUALITY is always changed on my GRAPHTEC CUTTING CONTROLLER  (WINDOWS ONLY)  I never make changes directly on my vinyl cutter.   To be able to use and make changes on the GRAPHTEC CUTTING CONTROLLER,  The cutter has to be sitting there ready to cut.  Using Graphtec software only  Command is COMMAND>GP-GL   Any other brands of software like Flexi VINYL MASTER, ETC is COMMAND>HP-GL.  

graphtec blade offset.jpg

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Also, something you will want to do, is go into Background settings,  Step thru to INITIAL BLADE CONTROL POSITION  > PUT ON> OUTSIDE.   THEN ENTER

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" ...at this point, I think I have wasted my money ..."  

Get it set up right, and then you'll be getting your money's worth. The speed factor alone will be a good thing. Crank that baby up a few notches and let 'er rip!

"Is it me or is this cutter just not capable of cutting something this detailed?"

It's you.
Mz Skeeter is giving you an invaluable tech-support session, listen to her.

 

 

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6 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Your TEST cut is not even correct. That is incorrect blade offset, shown in your user manual.   Make sure your cutting settings is either being ran from your cutter OR your cutting program.  Just because you change your settings in your software, does not mean it it changing it on the cutter.   I use Flexi software.  In my Graphtec menu is> BACKGROUND SETTINGS, There is CONDITION PRIORITY.. I make all of my changes in the Flexi program.  There is MANUAL OR PROGRAM.  I select PROGRAM in my CONDITION PRIORITY. I am running/making changes from the Flexi software program.  I also make all of my changes from the Graphtec Cutting Controller, right from my computer.  FORCE, SPEED, OFFSET,QUALITY is always changed on my GRAPHTEC CUTTING CONTROLLER  (WINDOWS ONLY)  I never make changes directly on my vinyl cutter.   To be able to use and make changes on the GRAPHTEC CUTTING CONTROLLER,  The cutter has to be sitting there ready to cut.  Using Graphtec software only  Command is COMMAND>GP-GL   Any other brands of software like Flexi VINYL MASTER, ETC is COMMAND>HP-GL.  

graphtec blade offset.jpg

Settings have been changed through the Graphtec Cut Controller only, then sent to the cutter. The CutMaster 4 plug-in does reflect those settings, though the only real way to tell is by adjusting cut speed, that I can tell. The users manual that I can download from Graphtec doesn’t address cut issues at all, hence the reason I am so frustrated.  The test cuts I have run all the possibilities for offset & accel,  the current settings above are where the cut is the closest to being correct. I have a feeling if I could get the triangle to not cut with hooks I might be ok but I am out of ideas. 

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5 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Also, something you will want to do, is go into Background settings,  Step thru to INITIAL BLADE CONTROL POSITION  > PUT ON> OUTSIDE.   THEN ENTER

It set to that. I’ll goof with it some more when I get home tomorrow (I had to walk away from it and the boat seemed a good place to go) and post more pics.

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You purchased great Graphtec tech support with this cutter... Time to use it.  First thing that I would do, is ditch the Cutting Master 4 program and use the Graphtec Pro Studio software, that was mentioned earlier.  It is  made by SAI,(Flexi sign pro),  a much better professional software. Valued $1000 +.

No matter which brand of vinyl cutter you are using,  that is incorrect blade offset that you are showing. That applies to any vinyl cutter set up. Roland blade offset is  at .025mm ,  Graphtec is 0

Graphtec ANGLE offset is 30.  Blade offset is 0   The  lighted display on your Graphtec vinyl cutter should be reading  CBO9U+0  S5 F14         As you stated your settings were above.    

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You cannot start blaming the hardware, until you've had a chance to test it with other software.

Be patient with dialing in the machine until you find the 'sweet spot' of blade depth, speed, and force. It was a learning process with my first cutter (LaserPoint), and another learning process with my Graphtec CE6000. It is what it is, and I would have liked to be able to dial in the Graphtec quicker because I had cutter experience, but every machine is different, so it is what it is.

If you're wanting more accurate detail, wait until your 60* blade comes in, hopefully you ordered a Clean Cut Blade.

You'll get there. Don't give up on the machine. Just find smaller designs to get your feet wet with this cutter.

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On 6/18/2022 at 5:51 PM, mistwist said:

It set to that. I’ll goof with it some more when I get home tomorrow (I had to walk away from it and the boat seemed a good place to go) and post more pics.

ok, just checking, many come here and see a little j in their design (which ruins their design) and can't get rid of it. 

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22 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

You purchased great Graphtec tech support with this cutter... Time to use it.  First thing that I would do, is ditch the Cutting Master 4 program and use the Graphtec Pro Studio software, that was mentioned earlier.  It is  made by SAI,(Flexi sign pro),  a much better professional software. Valued $1000 +.

No matter which brand of vinyl cutter you are using,  that is incorrect blade offset that you are showing. That applies to any vinyl cutter set up. Roland blade offset is  at .025mm ,  Graphtec is 0

Graphtec ANGLE offset is 30.  Blade offset is 0   The  lighted display on your Graphtec vinyl cutter should be reading  CBO9U+0  S5 F14         As you stated your settings were above.    

CutMaster 4 has an Adobe Illustrator plugin which makes it super simple, in fact it was a BIG selling point for me. That and that I could use it with Mac(though I have yet to be able to...yet.) I fought with Graphtec Pro Studio the other night for a few mins on my Windows machine, and it is definitely a getting used to it thing, but I am much more comfortable and proficient with Illustrator. I am just not a windows person I guess.

You mentioned Graphtecs excellent support, I don't know if this is something new or what but you have to send them an email now and THEY will determine if you need support. Even if you call you get sent to voicemail that says to email them then hangs up. Given their lack of online available documentation(I am assuming it is included on the CD/DVD because I don't have anything, windows or Mac that has a CD/DVD drive) I guess they would be overwhelmed if they offered phone support. I called to see  if I could use a USB type C adapter, as that is all Macs have now and got sent to voicemail and told to email them after sales didn't know the answer to my question.

PROGRESS! I did finally eliminate the hooks on the triangles(In Graphtec Controller offset it is now set at -3), I still have hang nails and incomplete cuts but I am gaining. I think a 60 degree blade will help with the hang nails, but I am not sure about the incomplete cuts. Any Ideas? Weeding is a little better but with incomplete cuts it can only be so good. 

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17 hours ago, haumana said:

You cannot start blaming the hardware, until you've had a chance to test it with other software.

Be patient with dialing in the machine until you find the 'sweet spot' of blade depth, speed, and force. It was a learning process with my first cutter (LaserPoint), and another learning process with my Graphtec CE6000. It is what it is, and I would have liked to be able to dial in the Graphtec quicker because I had cutter experience, but every machine is different, so it is what it is.

If you're wanting more accurate detail, wait until your 60* blade comes in, hopefully you ordered a Clean Cut Blade.

You'll get there. Don't give up on the machine. Just find smaller designs to get your feet wet with this cutter.

I did order the cleancut 60. 

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I'm a dual platform person, however, I spend the majority of my time on Macs. Right now, the top priority is getting clean cuts, so let's get this done one step at a time.

The best way to tell if the cutter is going to perform to your standards, and get the clean cuts you're looking for, is to test it across multiple software if necessary to see if you're getting differing results with the same image. If you are, then it's the software that you should be looking at.

I get that the AI plug in was a huge selling point for you, but it's not quite time to throw out the baby with the bath water. Have you downloaded and installed Graphtec Studio? I would select on design which will be your benchmark to test across the board. You know the results that you're getting from going the Mac > AI plug in route, so merge that design into Graphtec Studio and see what those results are. You can also test the design on a Windows machine. Window is not going to be you go to right now, but this is part of the process of elimination to get your machine dialed properly.

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I don't use Cutting Master 4 software., I don't know of anyone on here that does,(that answers questions).

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7 hours ago, haumana said:

I'm a dual platform person, however, I spend the majority of my time on Macs. Right now, the top priority is getting clean cuts, so let's get this done one step at a time.

The best way to tell if the cutter is going to perform to your standards, and get the clean cuts you're looking for, is to test it across multiple software if necessary to see if you're getting differing results with the same image. If you are, then it's the software that you should be looking at.

I get that the AI plug in was a huge selling point for you, but it's not quite time to throw out the baby with the bath water. Have you downloaded and installed Graphtec Studio? I would select on design which will be your benchmark to test across the board. You know the results that you're getting from going the Mac > AI plug in route, so merge that design into Graphtec Studio and see what those results are. You can also test the design on a Windows machine. Window is not going to be you go to right now, but this is part of the process of elimination to get your machine dialed properly.

I actually haven't been able to cut from AI on my Mac yet, that was what I called Graphtec about, Can I use a type C adapter or do I need to buy a USB hub? 

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You have never shown a picture of your blade holder with the blade sticking out of it.  Incorrect blade offset, and not finishing cuts, are signs of too much blade sticking out of your blade holder./ or broken blade tip.  That blade tip should be so far into your blade holder that you would think it would not cut, You shouldn't see the blade tip.  You use the force of the machine to cut with. If the blade depth is set correctly, it is not possible to cut thru the wax paper backing, no matter how much force. Also a drop or 2 of light oil in the blade holder to make sure the blade spins freely. Very hard to see a broken blade tip with the naked eye. Blade tips break very easy.  If you run any type of business, you should keep spares.   Graphtec tech support now says to contact your dealer first, before contacting Graphtec,  So, what did your dealer say?  It looks like Graphtec has delegated more tech support back to the dealers selling their machines.  I only needed tech support 1 time, back in 2008,  TOP  notch service. 

Please CONTACT DEALER FIRST for First Level Support, before contacting Graphtec for any technical issues.

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3 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

You have never shown a picture of your blade holder with the blade sticking out of it.  Incorrect blade offset, and not finishing cuts, are signs of too much blade sticking out of your blade holder./ or broken blade tip.  That blade tip should be so far into your blade holder that you would think it would not cut, You shouldn't see the blade tip.  You use the force of the machine to cut with. If the blade depth is set correctly, it is not possible to cut thru the wax paper backing, no matter how much force. Also a drop or 2 of light oil in the blade holder to make sure the blade spins freely. Very hard to see a broken blade tip with the naked eye. Blade tips break very easy.  If you run any type of business, you should keep spares.   Graphtec tech support now says to contact your dealer first, before contacting Graphtec,  So, what did your dealer say?  It looks like Graphtec has delegated more tech support back to the dealers selling their machines.  I only needed tech support 1 time, back in 2008,  TOP  notch service. 

Please CONTACT DEALER FIRST for First Level Support, before contacting Graphtec for any technical issues.

I contacted the dealer first, they told me to call Graphtec, because they weren't sure. This wasn't about the issues I am having now but a question on whether I needed a USB hub or a Type-C adapter to use it with the mac. I emailed the dealer again this morning, about the current issues(told them they should hire you btw..LOL) waiting to hear back now. 

You can't see the blade, I can barely feel it if I run my finger over it. I have fine tuned it to the point I am rarely getting unfinished cuts now, still getting the run offs at points but I am gaining, on it I think. I had quite a few orders this morning so I cut the larger ones on the Graphtec and they cut well. The dealer told me this cutter should cut down to 1-2mm easily, I don't see it happening but on the larger designs it did well. Unfortunately the smaller designs are my bread and butter. For instance, that buffalo I cut down to 5" on the longest side.

 

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I have no problem cutting very small details on designs, with either of my FC units.  I can cut Avery chrome at .25 inch. TEXT no problems. (Any size smaller would not have enough adhesive to even stick properly long term.. ) Several of us on here were put to task to show a person who was using a value cutter, the difference between the quality of cuts between a Graphtec and a value cutter. He was sold right away.   There are several photos. on this forum from Mr300s and  Dakotagrafx  showing how detailed and small a Graphtec will cut.  Dakotagraphx, now has a FC9000.  I have a FC7000-75 and a FC8000-75, (similar to the FC8600)  Both cut equal. I only use bare bones Flexistarter as my cutting software, with a XP computer. 

No one was telling you to design in Graphtec Pro Studio.  Only to use it as a cutting utility, to see if there was any difference cutting between Cutting Master 4 and Graphtec Pro Studio (cutting). You stated you already had 200 designs. Like most artists, your designs are saved.  It can import .ai and many other file formats. Import/CUT.  You also never stated, how you have your cutter  receiving instructions. on Manual or PROGRAM.  Looking at trouble shooting on your CUTTING MASTER 4.  You can only change settings/instructions with the cutter on PROGRAM.  Same as the Cutting Controller. Until you use a different cutting software, you don't know what your problem is. Vinyl cutters receive instructions differently from different softwares. We always suggest trying a different cutting software. That is routine with any trouble shooting. Member Haumana suggested the same thing above. We are just volunteers here and have seen the same problems over and over. Vinyl brand, type,  and age also has a lot to with getting good clean cuts. 

mr300s design.jpg

dakotagraphx_design.jpg

CUTTING MASTER 4 PROGRAM.jpg

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6 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

I have no problem cutting very small details on designs, with either of my FC units.  I can cut Avery chrome at .25 inch. TEXT no problems. (Any size smaller would not have enough adhesive to even stick properly long term.. ) Several of us on here were put to task to show a person who was using a value cutter, the difference between the quality of cuts between a Graphtec and a value cutter. He was sold right away.   There are several photos. on this forum from Mr300s and  Dakotagrafx  showing how detailed and small a Graphtec will cut.  Dakotagraphx, now has a FC9000.  I have a FC7000-75 and a FC8000-75, (similar to the FC8600)  Both cut equal. I only use bare bones Flexistarter as my cutting software, with a XP computer. 

No one was telling you to design in Graphtec Pro Studio.  Only to use it as a cutting utility, to see if there was any difference cutting between Cutting Master 4 and Graphtec Pro Studio (cutting). You stated you already had 200 designs. Like most artists, your designs are saved.  It can import .ai and many other file formats. Import/CUT.  You also never stated, how you have your cutter  receiving instructions. on Manual or PROGRAM.  Looking at trouble shooting on your CUTTING MASTER 4.  You can only change settings/instructions with the cutter on PROGRAM.  Same as the Cutting Controller. Until you use a different cutting software, you don't know what your problem is. Vinyl cutters receive instructions differently from different softwares. We always suggest trying a different cutting software. That is routine with any trouble shooting. Member Haumana suggested the same thing above. We are just volunteers here and have seen the same problems over and over. Vinyl brand, type,  and age also has a lot to with getting good clean cuts. 

mr300s design.jpg

dakotagraphx_design.jpg

CUTTING MASTER 4 PROGRAM.jpg

I didn't think anyone was telling me to design in GPS, I would have completely discounted the reply if they were. I have been messing with GPS today and honestly there is no difference in the cut and the cut panel is exactly the same as Cut Master 4, with the exception of Crosscut. I can't find it in GPS, but I haven't really looked hard either yet. Both make me feel like I am working with a Windows 95 Program. This is a big industry, it is hard to accept that none of these cutter manufacturers have kept up with software advances.

I set everything through the controller, I don't bother with setting anything through cutmaster. Is that what you mean?

I usually cut Oracal 651, a new roll. I was wondering if perhaps something a little thicker might cut smaller designs better? 

I am still making gains though.

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skeeter hit is right on the head early on - the offset definitely was not at 0 to begin with - I have had some software change the settings (flexi) on the plotter when I sent the project to cut.  I have owned several roland and graphtecs and the graphtecs hands down will cut much finer detail than the rolands.   not sure if skeeter mentioned it but I think the 8600 has a 2 position blade holder retainer - the blade holder needs to be in the back part of that retainer (blade position one)

FC8600 Series Vinyl Cutters, Cut Plotters, Vinyl Cutting, Roll Feed Cutters  | Graphtec America, Inc

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I had that written once, and removed it.. I try to give people a little credit that they do have it in the correct position in the carriage head, BUT the last Graphtec person that came here for help, had the blade holder in the front,  cutting over the groove, and ready to throw his cutter out the window.  Glad you posted it AGAIN. It crossed my mind again to post it, when the OP said he thought thicker vinyl would work better.  Why?  Thinner vinyl works better, not thicker. You would hope that people could see whether they are cutting over the groove or the teflon cutting strip. But I guess not, Said he been cutting for 19 years. ^_^ Said worst cutter he ever ran. Blah blah blah. Nothing but user error. Those 2 holes are there for a reason. 

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58 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

I had that written once, and removed it.. I try to give people a little credit that they do have it in the correct position in the carriage head, BUT the last Graphtec person that came here for help, had the blade holder in the front,  cutting over the groove, and ready to throw his cutter out the window.  Glad you posted it AGAIN. It crossed my mind again to post it, when the OP said he thought thicker vinyl would work better.  Why?  Thinner vinyl works better, not thicker. You would hope that people could see whether they are cutting over the groove or the teflon cutting strip. But I guess not, Said he been cutting for 19 years. ^_^ Said worst cutter he ever ran. Blah blah blah. Nothing but user error. Those 2 holes are there for a reason. 

Blade is in the proper location, having the cut channel was another big sales point so I knew ahead of time it had to be in blade position one for regular cuts.

I was thinking thicker material would give me fewer hangnails. 

I had to do a new design this morning with a ton of palm trees, which means a ton of fine points, the number of hang nails was manageable, the run offs(shaggy long strand of vinyl at the tip or the points) however were not, I am thinking the 60 degree blade will help with both issues?

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I don't even use a CLEAN CUT blade.  I have been using Seiki Blades since 2008,  I can get around 9 months use out of them.  Both 45 and 60 degree.  I cut almost daily.  5 blades for around $25  FREE ship from Nevada.  My niche' is large, very detailed designs. 8-16 ft long.   We spent A LOT of time with that last guy, who claimed to have been cutting for 19 years, ONLY to find out, he had the blade holder in the wrong hole. This is why we ask a ton of questions. This is why we ask for pictures.  People think they know it all. You would be surprised at the people who come here and "CLAIM"  "I KNOW I have my blade depth correct",  I am not going to change it, I have been cutting like this with my last cutter for years." only to find out they set it the depth of a credit card. Which is about 20 times too much blade exposed.. And what i say to those people.  "GOOD LUCK,  Contact your tech support. "  I don't work for UScutter,  I am just a member here, like you are. Nothing more. If I feel like answering a problem, I will, If I don't, I won't. 

You could also have a slight problem with the blade holder, possibly being off.  Spares from Ebay work just fine. Many buy them from there.  Never hurts to have a spare.  I got my last from UScutters. "other"  Ebay store for $10. 

Because there is so much out there still about using a credit card or post it notes, we stuck the instructions to the forum years back.

 

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