Overkill Lab

Laser Point 3 not closing cuts, particularly horizontal.

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I was really hoping to remain a silent lurker in the forum background, but issues with our Laserpoint3 3 has led me to start posting.. 

This machine is about 6.5 months old. It's never given 100% perfect cuts, but mostly something that we've settled for or had to manipulate our vector images to compensate for. Lately, we've been doing smaller cuts (~1" letters or shapes) and are really seeing the discrepancies in what should be happening, and what is not. 

The primary issue is particularly focused on the horizontal cuts--parralell to the cutter--being misaligned, therefor not closing, and causing havok. Nearly all "vertical or vertically sloped" cuts aren't terrible but still not 110%. 

After talking with wildgoose for a bit and troubleshooting for the last 3 days, I had a theory that the issue may be in feed/grit/knurled rollers. This theory is based on the way the closing line is not matching back up with the beginning cut, mostly on horizontal lines, as if the Rollers are not putting the vinyl back to the origin of the line.

We've adjusted offset all the way through the scale, calibrated the LP3 numerous times with poor results, have been using VinylMaster and SignCut2 to compare, rotated cutting strip, new 45 blade, inspected and cleaned the carriage Rollers and track, and pulled the side covers off to look for any damage. The one concern that we've discovered holds up with the grit roller theory.  The stepper motor and grit roller motor use the same timing belts, B103 MXL, 10mm width. The tension on the stepper motor belt is TIGHT. The roller motor belt is LOOSE. So loose that it was partially off of the plastic drive gear, but still seated in the metal pulley. I've spoken to Peter and Greg at USCutter about this issue now. Unfortunately they cant give me an approximate idea of how tight that roller motor belt should be, nor do they have any replacements. Greg has put in a request for a motherboard replacement, but they are out of stock, and no ETA for them. Nor, do they have any LP3s in stock to pull a belt from, or even replace this cutter under warranty.. Kind of a bummer to be told they can't do anything for us, and don't know when they can. 

So here I am, with a few pics, with more pics and video to share if anyone is willing to assist with this debacle..  The Square/SQ. vector is .5" tall, and WEST is 1.125" tall. Also there is occasionally a strange cut at the beginning of each cut cycle where it makes a small 3-4mm dash before it begins the actual design cut, this can be seen with or without a weed box. Can anyone maybe pull a cover off and give insight to how tight their grit roller belt is? Maybe someone has a B103MXL (82mxl) belt they'd be willing to sell so we can test the belt theory? They don't seem to be available in the US, and shipping from China is estimating 1-3 months away from most sellers and suppliers..  Or, does anyone have any other input to try? All suggestions are SOOOO GREATLY appreciated. 

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first thing I get from the picture is I do not see roller marks on the vinyl from that roller - why?  appears to not be tight enough

Having not been in the conversation up till now I also have to ask - How did you set your blade exposure - extra blade is extra drag - but the roller thing is my primary concern

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We have also been through the ringer with the basics.. Blade depth/exposure, inspected and thoroughly cleaned holded, tiny amount of clipper oil, ensuring pinch and grit Rollers are shiny clean, always pre-feed vinyl, have ran pen tool tests, reboot cutter clearing memory cache.. 

We ordered a new cutting strip and blade holder just to help rule those possibilities out.. 

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Dakota, that is the middle roller...  We rarely use it, but have tried it with no improvement...  28" cutter, using 24" vinyl, outside pinch Rollers both sitting approximately 1" from vinyl edge.. All 3 pinch Rollers are set at the same tension, but primarily use the 2 outers.

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There are too many bad instructions out there for setting blade depth. Never use a credit card or post it note.  Even UScutter has it wrong.  Here is the correct way.   Just put that belt number in Google search, it comes up at many places. 

To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing. You should barely see and feel the blade out of the blade holder. Regular sign vinyl is only 2-3 mil thick. You only cut with the very tip of the blade. 
 
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Absolutely, thank you Skeeter... I've read that countless times from you. Lol.  I've been a forum lerker for over a year before slowly integrating into a poster.. 

 

I agree the belts can be found online, in an array of pricing..  Unable to find any in North America..  Hoping to resolve this issue before the estimated Chinese delivery date of sometime in April or May.. 

I considered swapping the stepper belt with the roller belt, but neither of them have a tensioner, so I don't think I'd gain anything... I'm not even certain that the roller motor belt should be this loose or tight, USCutter doesn't have that answer.. 

Edit: Blade depth is certainly in the realm of where you want it, Skeeter..  Speed is at slowest setting(100), pressure is currently at 70. But, have even dabbled with blade depth and settings to no avail. 

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You're square corners don't look square, I believe you have an offset issue. I don't think that would explain the start/stop cut not lining up but getting the offset correct can't hurt anything.

How does the machines built in test cut look?

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DS, with the machine not connected to a computer I ran several Test cuts from the cutter to rule out cutting strip defects as a possibility...  The LP3 cuts an approx 1.5" square with a diamond inside of it. Those tests still exhibit the same defect of not closing, and by default the corners are not crisp. No adjustments available  on the cutter menu, software only.

Unfortunately I'm at work ATM and don't have any pics of that on my phone, but will definitely post this evening. Some of these pics I've posted are through the process of Vinyl Master and SignCut, adjusting offset.

I've also ran numerous pieces of paper with the pen tool, which I will post pics of this evening as well.. 

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Going through my phone pics, I've found some projects that show these errors and some that are fine.  Oracal 651 and Easyweed..  I've been able to modify image files to correct these miscuts.. But something is off.. 

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When you get home show the outside pressure rollers.   Not real familiar with that model, seems slice n dice recommended them off and on, maybe he owns one 

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That pic of your blade holder looks like a lot of blade sticking out.

I can not see any of my blade. But then I am old and need glasses to see that I still cant see the blade out that far.

Also, it one of the pic's, there is no marks on the vinyl from the rollers. Did you play with the tension on them?

 

 

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That blade depth, should be so far in the blade holder, that you would think it wouldn't even cut that way. It's less blade, more force. 

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Mike, I don't think that is the case, but I've seen other pictures on the forum where it does appear the blade has too much exposure and the original poster insists that the picture shows more than is actually exposed...  I'm gonna say there is roughly .5 mm exposed passed the tip of the holder, which is less than I've ever ran previously, and I upped my pressure to 70 to compensate for that minimal of exposure. For the last 6 months of running this machine I was running with slightly more exposure and pressure at 58. Just put a fresh blade in yesterday. I will of course reset the blade depth this evening and continue 

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20210307_200731.jpgHey there.

I do not own one, but in the photo above you posted, I notice the middle pinch roller is located at the wrong position. The LP3 requires the spring-tension rollers to be set precisely at the white marks along the rail.

 

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Skeeter,  it is less than 1mil exposure.  Roughly half a mil.  I will adjust again this evening and post the results...  With this exposure, it won't cut through the 651 below 66 pressure.  I will adjust in a little more with the scrap test, and up the pressure a bit more.  Thank you Skeeter, DS, Mike. 

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But, you did not say if you played with the roller tension. The would be a big thing on what you are getting. There should be marks on the vinyl.

 

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Slice, I will again move that pinch roller over the grit roller.  It is definitely not aligned with that grit roller, but is not in use with tension on it.  I'll keep it centered over the roller but have always had more success using only the outer pinch Rollers. 

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who said 66 force was correct?  There are not any set in stone settings for a vinyl cutter. Even the same model can be different. You adjust to do it right. It's less blade more force. 

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Mike, definitely getting the knurled impressions on the pinch Rollers in use.  My photography skills are certainly lacking.  The spring tension on all 3 Rollers is roughly medium-high pressure..  Guaging from the threads exposed on the pinch roller tensioner and taking measurements of the springs, they are all set the same and definitely grabbing. Will post pics of these aswell

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Absolutely Skeeter, thank you, just going off of what I've done.  Of course it may not be correct and probably isnt. I'm curious if you would mind posting a picture of your blade depth/exposure from the holder on your setup, just for reference? 

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I run a Graphtec FC 7000-75,  night and day to a value cutter.  Plus the offset is zero.  Graphtecs are set and forget. My cutter can cut .25  Avery chrome vinyl text perfect. 

The most important FIRST thing is to set the blade depth correctly, It's that important.THEN you adjust offset, and over cut. 

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7 minutes ago, LMN8R said:

Mike, definitely getting the knurled impressions on the pinch Rollers in use.  My photography skills are certainly lacking.  The spring tension on all 3 Rollers is roughly medium-high pressure..  Guaging from the threads exposed on the pinch roller tensioner and taking measurements of the springs, they are all set the same and definitely grabbing. Will post pics of these aswell

Ok, but did you change them from when you got the cutter?

 

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