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Graphtec CE7000 Push Rollers

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Any update on this issue ? The only heavy bunching im getting from my plotter is whilst cutting 24' media. Though whats weird is that I can long narrow media (more than 9 feet) and it tracks just right

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Hi,

I'm new here, I just signed up in the hope someone can tell me if this issue is now fixed? I ask because I was literally about to order a Graphtec CE7000-60 after looking for a vinyl cutter for the last couple of months and then I came across a YouTube video showing the problem. There were a few comments by others with the same issue, one of the users said:

Quote

Some days ago, they got new information from the manufacturer regarding to this problem. They will now send me some kind of an additional material guide, that I should mount on the backside of the machine, which should reliable fix it. I'm looking forward to get and test it. They told me that 2-3% of the total shipped machines have got this problem. I'm a bit wondering why an additional part should solve this problem. At this amount of affected devices, they should replace them, because it's a defect ...

and when the user was asked if the guide fixed the problem, they said:

Quote

absolutely ... it works fine for me, never had this issue again

If the worst case is waiting for a guide that will 100% fix the problem, I'm OK with that.

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1 hour ago, New2022 said:

Hi,

I'm new here, I just signed up in the hope someone can tell me if this issue is now fixed? I ask because I was literally about to order a Graphtec CE7000-60 after looking for a vinyl cutter for the last couple of months and then I came across a YouTube video showing the problem. There were a few comments by others with the same issue, one of the users said:

and when the user was asked if the guide fixed the problem, they said:

If the worst case is waiting for a guide that will 100% fix the problem, I'm OK with that.

when I got mine they sent me the new material guides and I worked with graphtec a while trying to cure the issue - I finally fixed it when I sent the ce7000 back and got the fc9000 - hurt the pocketbook but sure cuts fine 

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On 7/25/2020 at 2:12 PM, Dakotagrafx said:

I am wondering if this is what the original poster had encountered.  I have a lot of seat time on the graphtecs and this is a new one on me - will probably have to wait till first week of august before I can call graphtec support but it is not the amount of rollers causing this, there is something else going on.   

I did notice the new graphtecs are produced in thailand :/

P7250812.MOV

this is from the one I had - 

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On 8/10/2020 at 4:21 PM, Dakotagrafx said:

update - I am not going to do extensive testing until my fever goes down (3rd day and lower gi issues) but graphtec sent new "guides" with a 1/4" raised nylon strip that at first try seems to feed better 

new strip.jpg

this is the difference in the new and old guides.

maybe someday I will get the opportunity to play with another ce7000 and see if they fixed the issue 

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1 hour ago, Dakotagrafx said:

when I got mine they sent me the new material guides and I worked with graphtec a while trying to cure the issue - I finally fixed it when I sent the ce7000 back and got the fc9000 - hurt the pocketbook but sure cuts fine 

 The FC9000 is way out of my budget, I would have to look at a different brand of cutter.

 

1 hour ago, Dakotagrafx said:

this is from the one I had - 

 

1 hour ago, Dakotagrafx said:

this is the difference in the new and old guides.

maybe someday I will get the opportunity to play with another ce7000 and see if they fixed the issue 

 

I'm now not sure if I should order one.

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5 minutes ago, New2022 said:

 The FC9000 is way out of my budget, I would have to look at a different brand of cutter.

I'm now not sure if I should order one.

If you can manage to find someone's New Old Stock of a CE6000 series, that might be worth looking into.

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I was just going to say the same thing,   You may still be able to find a New,  or Open Box  CE6000.60    or Slightly used .  I bought my Graphtec new in 2008, I have never had any problems.  In some cases you may find someone getting rid of a FC, because they may want to downgrade.  I have seen very nice FC units sell for cheaper than a New CE. I got one like that. 

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On 1/27/2022 at 5:04 AM, haumana said:

If you can manage to find someone's New Old Stock of a CE6000 series, that might be worth looking into.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 5:09 AM, MZ SKEETER said:

I was just going to say the same thing,   You may still be able to find a New,  or Open Box  CE6000.60    or Slightly used .  I bought my Graphtec new in 2008, I have never had any problems.  In some cases you may find someone getting rid of a FC, because they may want to downgrade.  I have seen very nice FC units sell for cheaper than a New CE. I got one like that. 

 

I had a look but I could only find one place selling the CE6000 new and they were charging more than the CE7000.

I emailed Graphtec asking about the issue and they responded stating it was a problem with early machines and it has been fixed on newer models. They also said they haven't had any reports of the issue on newer machines. After reading that and because of the great deal I was getting I went ahead and placed an order. I also ordered two rolls of vinyl, a 310mm x 5m roll to test for the left roller issue and a 610mm x 5m roll to test for the issue @puchacho mentioned above.

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we look forward to your review on this after you receive the new plotter - fingers crossed that the early problems are fixed - it sure did drive up the price of the remaining ce6000's

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@New2022 If you don't mind, please keep us posted with your experience with the new (and improved) CE7000.

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Yes, please do.

If improved, I might think about selling my 6000 60 plus to get the 7000 for the few features the 7000 has over the 6000.

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50 minutes ago, pawdell said:

Yes, please do.

If improved, I might think about selling my 6000 60 plus to get the 7000 for the few features the 7000 has over the 6000.

actually biggest mistake I ever made - hold onto and love that ce6000  IMHO

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3 hours ago, pawdell said:

Yes, please do.

If improved, I might think about selling my 6000 60 plus to get the 7000 for the few features the 7000 has over the 6000.

Get the 7000, but definitely hold on to the 6000.

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22 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

actually biggest mistake I ever made - hold onto and love that ce6000  IMHO

 

19 hours ago, haumana said:

Get the 7000, but definitely hold on to the 6000.

Thanks. I see they had problems with the 7000 from the beginning which really surprised me that they didn't catch it. I am hoping they fix it someday. For how I use the cutter, I couldn't have two cutters at this time. I am happy with the 6000 for what it is allowed to do, so no rush at this time. Thanks for the replies.

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I'm definitely not the right person to review this machine but I will post describing in detail what I did to test for roller issues.

The CE7000 was delivered last Monday but it wasn't until Thursday I was able to set the machine up fully. I first tested the roll of 310mm vinyl and I had a few issues with the roll falling off and some bunching on the left side, after more testing and no more bunching I put the earlier problems down to my inexperience with vinyl plotters. During this time I didn't write anything down, so on Saturday I did more tests with the 310mm vinyl roll.

  1. 97.961" was passed through the machine before the roll fell off, no bunching.
  2. I rerolled the vinyl and set a 16ft pre feed, during this the roll fell off but I let it continue until the core, which was hanging on by some tape, reached the machine feed. As the vinyl was exiting the machine it was starting to curve upwards due to the build up of vinyl on the floor. No bunching.
  3. I did a cut which came out fine. At first I tried to set the blade automatically and then I realised, three attempts later, it wasn't working due to my vinyl being too thin. This was later confirmed by the manual.

On Sunday I tested the 610mm roll of vinyl:

  1. 12" passed and bunching occurred on the left side.
  2. I realigned the rollers and rerolled the vinyl and it passed through 10" before bunching on the left side.
  3. I realigned the rollers and rerolled the vinyl and it passed through 32" before bunching on the left side.
  4. I realigned the rollers and about 50" passed before bunching on the left side.

I then connected the media basket:

  1. I rerolled the vinyl and 19" passed before bunching on the left side.
  2. I rerolled the vinyl and 17" passed before bunching on right side.
  3. I adjusted the roller on the left side to about 12mm from the left side of the vinyl and I adjusted the roller on the right side to about 20mm from right side of vinyl. No bunching on left or right side but I had to stop at just over 107" because the vinyl was literally going up into the air from the media basket
  4. I reversed all 107" of vinyl and let it fall into the rear basket and then I fed the vinyl back through to the front while keeping an eye on both rollers and just tapping the middle of the vinyl with my finger every time it started to rise (so it would collapse into the basket). I started hearing a noise which turned out to be the detached core rattling, it then fell into the media basket. I stopped the pass through and it had reached 165" without bunching.
  5. I reversed the vinyl letting it fall into the rear basket and I adjusted the right roller to about 16mm from right side of vinyl and then set the pre feed to 16ft. It all passed without any bunching and then automatically reversed.
  6. I set the right roller to about 13mm from right side of vinyl and set the pre feed to 16ft, it passed without bunching and automatically reversed
  7. Just before this post I tested passing 16ft of vinyl through again with the vinyl that had been left in the rear basket since Sunday. It all passed without issues even though some of the vinyl had taken a new shape  (no longer flat in places).

Given my vinyl passes without issue after a pre feed, could my earlier issues be more to do with the vinyl type and my lack of experience with these machines? The vinyl being wound too tight (is this even a possibility?), the CE7000 maybe being more temperamental than previous versions or some sort of mix? In the videos I watched with the bunching issue, the bunching happened every time the vinyl passed through the machine, even when it wasn't rerolled. Users with similar issues said their machine would get to X and have bunching whereas my issues happened at different times and only when I had rerolled the vinyl or when it was first used.

Last night I did an ARMS test cut which came out fine... eventually (my mistakes). Are there any other recommended tests to do on a new machine?

 

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4 hours ago, New2022 said:

I'm definitely not the right person to review this machine but I will post describing in detail what I did to test for roller issues.

The CE7000 was delivered last Monday but it wasn't until Thursday I was able to set the machine up fully. I first tested the roll of 310mm vinyl and I had a few issues with the roll falling off and some bunching on the left side, after more testing and no more bunching I put the earlier problems down to my inexperience with vinyl plotters. During this time I didn't write anything down, so on Saturday I did more tests with the 310mm vinyl roll.

  1. 97.961" was passed through the machine before the roll fell off, no bunching.
  2. I rerolled the vinyl and set a 16ft pre feed, during this the roll fell off but I let it continue until the core, which was hanging on by some tape, reached the machine feed. As the vinyl was exiting the machine it was starting to curve upwards due to the build up of vinyl on the floor. No bunching.
  3. I did a cut which came out fine. At first I tried to set the blade automatically and then I realised, three attempts later, it wasn't working due to my vinyl being too thin. This was later confirmed by the manual.

On Sunday I tested the 610mm roll of vinyl:

  1. 12" passed and bunching occurred on the left side.
  2. I realigned the rollers and rerolled the vinyl and it passed through 10" before bunching on the left side.
  3. I realigned the rollers and rerolled the vinyl and it passed through 32" before bunching on the left side.
  4. I realigned the rollers and about 50" passed before bunching on the left side.

I then connected the media basket:

  1. I rerolled the vinyl and 19" passed before bunching on the left side.
  2. I rerolled the vinyl and 17" passed before bunching on right side.
  3. I adjusted the roller on the left side to about 12mm from the left side of the vinyl and I adjusted the roller on the right side to about 20mm from right side of vinyl. No bunching on left or right side but I had to stop at just over 107" because the vinyl was literally going up into the air from the media basket
  4. I reversed all 107" of vinyl and let it fall into the rear basket and then I fed the vinyl back through to the front while keeping an eye on both rollers and just tapping the middle of the vinyl with my finger every time it started to rise (so it would collapse into the basket). I started hearing a noise which turned out to be the detached core rattling, it then fell into the media basket. I stopped the pass through and it had reached 165" without bunching.
  5. I reversed the vinyl letting it fall into the rear basket and I adjusted the right roller to about 16mm from right side of vinyl and then set the pre feed to 16ft. It all passed without any bunching and then automatically reversed.
  6. I set the right roller to about 13mm from right side of vinyl and set the pre feed to 16ft, it passed without bunching and automatically reversed
  7. Just before this post I tested passing 16ft of vinyl through again with the vinyl that had been left in the rear basket since Sunday. It all passed without issues even though some of the vinyl had taken a new shape  (no longer flat in places).

Given my vinyl passes without issue after a pre feed, could my earlier issues be more to do with the vinyl type and my lack of experience with these machines? The vinyl being wound too tight (is this even a possibility?), the CE7000 maybe being more temperamental than previous versions or some sort of mix? In the videos I watched with the bunching issue, the bunching happened every time the vinyl passed through the machine, even when it wasn't rerolled. Users with similar issues said their machine would get to X and have bunching whereas my issues happened at different times and only when I had rerolled the vinyl or when it was first used.

Last night I did an ARMS test cut which came out fine... eventually (my mistakes). Are there any other recommended tests to do on a new machine?

 

glad you got your plotter to work properly - one note is to always prefeed and never have the plotter pull directly from the roll.   as to the earlier post - I have personally had a dozen graphtec plotters over the years with no issues until the ce-7000 - having run many many 50 ft rolls thru them am fairly confident in my technique.     
I am curious your earlier "bunching" - was that due to pulling from the roll or an indication of the same issue as earlier described cropping up.  can you take another roll (as most of us change colors many times during a week of cutting and have no problems for the 16ft like you did with the roll that was left in the media basket for days?
Hoping your earlier bunching is because you "rolled the vinyl" and had the plotter pull it from the roll and that the issue has indeed been fixed. 

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18 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

glad you got your plotter to work properly - one note is to always prefeed and never have the plotter pull directly from the roll.   as to the earlier post - I have personally had a dozen graphtec plotters over the years with no issues until the ce-7000 - having run many many 50 ft rolls thru them am fairly confident in my technique.     
I am curious your earlier "bunching" - was that due to pulling from the roll or an indication of the same issue as earlier described cropping up.  can you take another roll (as most of us change colors many times during a week of cutting and have no problems for the 16ft like you did with the roll that was left in the media basket for days?
Hoping your earlier bunching is because you "rolled the vinyl" and had the plotter pull it from the roll and that the issue has indeed been fixed. 

Thanks.

The problems I first had were from when the roll was brand new, hadn't been prefed and I was rerolling the vinyl as tight as possible after each use :lol:. I didn't know I shouldn't be doing that until reading your post, so thank you :). I only have two rolls of vinyl, but as a test I got the 305mm roll (I incorrectly stated 310mm earlier) and I pushed the inside core until vinyl protruded from the other side to loosen it, like so:

20220210_075455.thumb.jpg.5b48f17092d54757fb5d01c145b31f08.jpg

I then pushed both ends of the vinyl so it went back to the core width and I did a 14ft pre feed which went through perfectly. I then rerolled the vinyl as tight as I had been doing and manually started to feed the vinyl through the machine, within seconds there was bunching on the left side and the roll fell down. I did the same test and more vinyl passed but there was bunching. Lastly, I rerolled the vinyl and then loosened it as I did above and then I manually fed the vinyl until 142" went through with no bunching. I think it's safe to say my issues were due to the vinyl being rolled too tight.

I'm not sure if this will help anyone, but If buying a CE7000 it may be worth asking the seller if they know what firmware version the machine has to see how old the stock is to minimize the roller issue. My machine had firmware version 1.22 (now updated), version 1.22 was released in May 2021, version 1.23 was released in November 2021 and version 1.24 was released in December 2021.

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4 hours ago, New2022 said:

Thanks.

The problems I first had were from when the roll was brand new, hadn't been prefed and I was rerolling the vinyl as tight as possible after each use :lol:. I didn't know I shouldn't be doing that until reading your post, so thank you :). I only have two rolls of vinyl, but as a test I got the 305mm roll (I incorrectly stated 310mm earlier) and I pushed the inside core until vinyl protruded from the other side to loosen it, like so:

20220210_075455.thumb.jpg.5b48f17092d54757fb5d01c145b31f08.jpg

I then pushed both ends of the vinyl so it went back to the core width and I did a 14ft pre feed which went through perfectly. I then rerolled the vinyl as tight as I had been doing and manually started to feed the vinyl through the machine, within seconds there was bunching on the left side and the roll fell down. I did the same test and more vinyl passed but there was bunching. Lastly, I rerolled the vinyl and then loosened it as I did above and then I manually fed the vinyl until 142" went through with no bunching. I think it's safe to say my issues were due to the vinyl being rolled too tight.

I'm not sure if this will help anyone, but If buying a CE7000 it may be worth asking the seller if they know what firmware version the machine has to see how old the stock is to minimize the roller issue. My machine had firmware version 1.22 (now updated), version 1.22 was released in May 2021, version 1.23 was released in November 2021 and version 1.24 was released in December 2021.

even with the fc I don't let the plotter pull the vinyl off the roll - I still unroll what I think the project needs off and let it hang out the back so the plotter isn't pulling any weight except the hanging vinyl - glad you are making progress

 

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I don't think I have ever pre-fed the vinyl on my 6000. But, I usually place a weed box around my design and that gets cut first, so the job kind of pre-feeds the roll for me. Since the box represent straight lines, those pen down moves are fairly calm, I'm guessing that is why I get away with it. That and the vinyl roll stock shafts are riding on bearings.

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I don't prefer not to have the vinyl jump, and to put the grit rollers under unnecessary torque, so everything gets pre-fed. If the vinyl roll is too light, there's a chance that the torque alone can cause the roll to jump and come off the rods.

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When the roll gets too light, I do place a 3/4" or 1" steel  pipe in the core to keep it from jumping off. I wonder if my acceleration is a bit lower as I don't see any violent moves while cutting the weed box (that would put the grit rollers under high stress). If I send multiple copies from software, I'm not going to pull out 40 feet ahead of time - or, at least, I don't want to as I don't have a pre-feed basket to keep the vinyl clean before running it through the cutter.

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The hollow core rods are functional, but the first thing I did was swap them out for solid rods, it doesn't flex as much under the weight of a new 50-yard roll of reflective.

 I don't have a lot of working room, so I while on a good day, I can cut about 200-yards of vinyl, I will only do it in 3-ft. to 4-ft. increments, especially since the "guaranteed accuracy" length is just under 7-ft. I take the time to roll what is finished before I have the cutter do the next set.

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