jskwarek

Have I met the limits of my LPII

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Trying to cut a fairly detailed vector of a tree with roots. Using good Oracal 951 material. Have tried slowing the cut down, speeding it up, changing pressure but no matter what I do, I can't seem to cut the details I'm looking for without the blade lifting the decal during cut and ruining it. Have I simply met the limitations of my LPII plotter? Is there something else that I can try to get better cuts without the vinyl lifting from the backer paper?

 

TIA, Jason

20161005_150819.jpg

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Ouch...that hurts to look at!  

Unfortunately I have no suggestions....

but I'm sure someone will come along with some input.

Sue2

 

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951 with fine detail -best chance is new blade and absolutely the least blade exposure to get thru the vinyl after you check inside your blade holder for any vinyl bits or pieces 

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Sue2, tell me about it. 

Dakotagrafx, Thank you for the advice. I'll put a new blade in, now and see what I get from that. Already checked the holder and it's clean as a whistle. I'm using a 60° blade with 135gf and 500mm/s for speed. The cut depth seems right on, as I can barely see the lines left on the backer paper but it's destroying the vinyl. 

Wish me luck on the next attempt. 

JS 

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Well... Some progress. I slowed the speed to 200mm/s and exchanged blades for a new 60° blade. This time it started out well, but the intricacies of the cut started to fail towards the end. Where the narrow roots are being cut, they would lay flat but when the blade would re-position anywhere around the lines that had already been cut, it would start to lift pieces from the vinyl. My blade offset is currently set at .31mm and the Overcut is at 1.02mm in SCALP, do those seem correct? I don't think it's a offset setting as it's cutting well, it's just weeding itself and destroying itself during the cutting process.

Thanks again for the insight,

Jason

20161005_155823.jpg

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not a clue on scalp as I was never a fan of it - been a long time since I dialed in a value cutter so will wait for some advice from the people that have their lp2 dialed in

 

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You seem to have bewn doing this, a while. The LPII has treated me well. However, might be time to upgrade if I'm going to get more into fine detail work, what plotter wpild you recommend I look at?

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I am a long term graphtec addict - just bought another ce6000-60 as I upgrade my equipment every year or two - had 6+ ce500o's few ce3000's and one old fc4100.  for fine detail nothing will touch them that I have found (owned several roland but haven't tried summa) 

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It isn't cutting a second image in those areas is it?

Cal

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Cal, I've double and triple the file and it is only cutting one path. I think the issue might be the width between the cuts is to thin causing the lift when the plotter makes the second cut.

 

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Dakotagrafx, Thank you for the advice on the new plotter. Does Graphtec make a 30" wide model? I've got a lot of 30" material for my LPII and would hate to spend the extra $2K to go to their 48" model when the biggest I would ever need is 30".

 

JS

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I've noticed my LPII does the same thing too with fine detail works.

I've also noticed lately when doing 2 layer works, the layers go out of skew as well.

My have to check out the Graphtec myself.

Which program are you using with is slice&dice?

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33 minutes ago, slice&dice said:

Yes, there is a 30" model  (Graphtec FC8600-75)

 

Ouch, looks like I'm going to have to start saving my pennies. The FC8600-75 looks like the top of the line. Ringing in at $4700 all in, that's a lot of vinyl for me to cut to recoup costs.


 

14 minutes ago, JLS Design said:

I've noticed my LPII does the same thing too with fine detail works.

I've also noticed lately when doing 2 layer works, the layers go out of skew as well.

My have to check out the Graphtec myself.

Which program are you using with is slice&dice?

I too have noticed that the LPII doesn't do well on intricate later work. I think that's just what we're going to get from a mid-level entry machine. I've really enjoyed the LPII, it's done great. I just think as I learn and grow, I'm starting to outgrow it's capabilities. My problem is I've got about $1K tied up in the LPII and all accessories. Seems to me the next step up in equipment takes me from a $1K all in plotter to a $4k+ plotter to keep my 30" cutting width. What am I missing, is there really not a in-between step?

JS

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You could keep an eye out for a used cutter.  There have been some listed on this site on and off.

Sue2

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jsk -  I was looking for a 30 inch machine too and stumbled across the Summa (SummaCut D75R). Found them to be around 1K less than the FC and superior IMO other than less cutting force. Tracking is literally the best in the industry. They were the originators of the optical eye and they offer lifetime free live tech support regardless of whether you are a first owner or not. Built in Belgium and are absolutely rock solid. In the states they don't have dealships they all run through their own system. I have been running mine hard for about 3 years without a single issue. 

As far as your design I would say it's possibly the LP2 but could still somewhat be the set up or even the file. If you have a file that has really sharp points the knife can catch when going from one direction and having to spin almost all the way 180 back. I typically go in and add a couple control points (nodes) just back from the tip and then remove the tip creating a more rounded point which will help the blade make the corner smoother. In the end product you can't see that the tip is missing most of the time. 

For multi layered work the higher end machines are absolutely going to show you a nice improvement. This was one of the first things I noticed when I upgraded. (I used to have a P-Cut very similar to your LP2). I never felt comfortable using the auto weed lines with my old cutter because it was not accurate enough to safely jump down through the middle of a line of text without clipping into letters. Once the new cutter came online that is no longer an issue at all. 

 What about cutting down your 30" vinyl? You'd waste 6" on whatever you have in stock but.... I have the 30" capability but only actually use it once or twice a year if that. Before stumbling almost accidentally across Summa, Graphtec was my original first pick due to the proven reliability they have and you will not go wrong going that direction. 

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2 hours ago, mfatty500 said:

May I ask how many Swear words were used in the making of that Graphic? :D

Enough that I had to ask forgiveness, HA!

 

 

1 hour ago, Wildgoose said:

jsk -  I was looking for a 30 inch machine too and stumbled across the Summa (SummaCut D75R). Found them to be around 1K less than the FC and superior IMO other than less cutting force. Tracking is literally the best in the industry. They were the originators of the optical eye and they offer lifetime free live tech support regardless of whether you are a first owner or not. Built in Belgium and are absolutely rock solid. In the states they don't have dealships they all run through their own system. I have been running mine hard for about 3 years without a single issue. 

As far as your design I would say it's possibly the LP2 but could still somewhat be the set up or even the file. If you have a file that has really sharp points the knife can catch when going from one direction and having to spin almost all the way 180 back. I typically go in and add a couple control points (nodes) just back from the tip and then remove the tip creating a more rounded point which will help the blade make the corner smoother. In the end product you can't see that the tip is missing most of the time. 

For multi layered work the higher end machines are absolutely going to show you a nice improvement. This was one of the first things I noticed when I upgraded. (I used to have a P-Cut very similar to your LP2). I never felt comfortable using the auto weed lines with my old cutter because it was not accurate enough to safely jump down through the middle of a line of text without clipping into letters. Once the new cutter came online that is no longer an issue at all. 

 What about cutting down your 30" vinyl? You'd waste 6" on whatever you have in stock but.... I have the 30" capability but only actually use it once or twice a year if that. Before stumbling almost accidentally across Summa, Graphtec was my original first pick due to the proven reliability they have and you will not go wrong going that direction. 

Thanks Goose. I did see the Summa brand but didn't know anything about them. It's not that I don't mind spending the money on quality but have to be smart enough to know that I don't run a vinyl business. I do enough business sales to pay for my toys. Too many other projects to jump in with both feet but do sell a lot of custom graphics in the auto world, which is what got me into the vinyl business to begin with.

I've also thought about cutting down my 30" material, I've only got 6-7 30" roles so not a huge deal there. You're right in my 1.5 years of doing this, I've only needed the width a few times. The main reason I bought the LPII was specifically to make graphics for my race car, that's really the only graphic I need to cut in 30" and guess I could use a buddies plotter if I needed to make it again.

IMG_4252.jpg

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Nice looking car. I would bet you a dollar you can cut that graphic to fit on a 24" sheet but you'd have to do a few of those parts in separate pieces. With a quality cutter you can get accurate enough that the pieces all fit together pretty good. 

I'm not trying to convince you to go buy a Summa just letting you know its a viable option. Still pretty spendy as compared to a 24" CE6000. In your shoes I'd go the Graphtec and if you find later that you need a bigger cutter you will be far enough along to sustain the investment. 

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Wildgoose, After much thought, I think you're right. The Graphtec 24" seems the way to go. It's not like the LPII is going anywhere. I could always use that for the few occasions I need a larger format, or at least until I work through the 30" roles that I have. I've tried to do separate pieces on the LPII before but tracking not being the greatest, it was passable but not perfect.

 

JS

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There are 2 pinch rollers at the top of the blade carriage, under the "lid", that got loose, on MY LPII, and it did the same thing.  Lift the lid, and look at the thumb screws, and see if they are loose, or as in MY case, one of them had actually fallen OFF! I tightened those up, and it works like new!

 

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Let me throw in my 2-cents.

I started with the MH871 32" and at some point, got the SC (my MH had the USB port break when I tripped on the cable -- the replacement board was cheap and simple to install, but in the process of ordering the part from USCUTTER, I decided to spring for the SC and keep the repaired MH as a backup)

A while later, I sold my entire sign shop, and the SC went bye-bye as part of the deal.

After more than a year, I re-opened in another spot, and placed the MH into use again.

Heck, I did a big job today that was worth 1/2 the entire value of the machine!

That MH is a workhorse. To this day, it serves me well, and I have had no problems in cutting all sorts of relatively minature stuff, as well as long vinyl runs, up to 20' or so. Put it together with an older laptop with a serial port, cut with SignBlazer or VM, and go.

 

DSCN0500.jpg

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Having owned a cutter on each end of the spectrum I can say, with fervor, that the quality of work turned out by a high end cutter is definitely something worth experiencing. This is particularly true if you are trying to do commercial quality work. I see a lot of folks talk about how you don't NEED one to get the job done. That may be true as far as NEED goes but don't discount the benefits of having a better machine and the actual savings in waste and productivity that come with them. The perceived savings in initial expense is easily overshadowed by the production rates possible with better equipment.

That being said, yes it is totally possible to turn out acceptable work with a budget machine but to the OP and any other searchers reading this thread make no mistake that there is a HUGE difference. Value cutters are amazing for what they cost and are the ticket for home hobby enthusiasts but when the corner gets turned to commercial work they are really only a temporary solution for the serious business.

The actual quality and cleanliness of the cut particularly on very small text is one good reason as well as far superior tracking on longer work. The detailed precision comes into play when using weeding lines and when trying to weed small text. When I had my P-Cut I would never use weeding lines that cut through the middle of the text because the machine was not accurate enough to have it trim through without cutting into the letters. Likewise I had issues with long (over 30") one piece graphics. By the time the blade made it all the way around it would be off sometimes as much as a 1/4" to 1/2" when it came back to the start point. On top of the accuracy issues the memory and overall cutting process is for less finicky with a better cutter. I used to have to hang around and be ready to stop the machine should something go wrong. Basically I "hovered" over the cutter the whole time it was working. With my Summa I load it up and start the cut and then leave and go do other things. With HTV work I have literally loaded a whole roll and set it to cut hundreds of small left chest designs which were a couple hours of cutting and went to bed. I never could get more than 10 - 15 of the same logo on the P-Cut without wigging out the mother board.

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On 10/5/2016 at 2:03 PM, jskwarek said:

Well... Some progress. I slowed the speed to 200mm/s and exchanged blades for a new 60° blade. This time it started out well, but the intricacies of the cut started to fail towards the end. Where the narrow roots are being cut, they would lay flat but when the blade would re-position anywhere around the lines that had already been cut, it would start to lift pieces from the vinyl. My blade offset is currently set at .31mm and the Overcut is at 1.02mm in SCALP, do those seem correct? I don't think it's a offset setting as it's cutting well, it's just weeding itself and destroying itself during the cutting process.

Thanks again for the insight,

Jason

 

these are the setting on my scalps program..I have never touched them from day one from when i first got my titan 2 , 2 years ago....Scalps is amazing and even better with Ai.. My titan 2 has never failed me at all i must say.it has cut very small cuts without issues.. With that being said my next machine will a be a titan again..

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was hoping Primal would respond, I knew he uses the titan 2 with good success . He is also the 1 that recommended putting a drop of light oil on the end of the blade that goes in the holder which solved a similarl issue I was having with my 54" sc cutter. The size of my business sign is why I went with a 54" cutter to be able to cut 48" material in the beginning. Being a newbie at all this I figured would be easier for me to do it it 1 piece versus trying to learn how to get 2 pieces to line up perfect being so green at this. I was leaning towards a LP2 until I called the guys at us cutter. they were the ones that talked me into a less expensive cutter to start with, then upgrade after I decided it was something I wanted to stick with. I still have a lot to learn, but I am looking at upgraded 24" cutters now. Thinking serious about the Titan 2 unless I decided I want to upgrade to something that will  print. I plan on the upgrade doing most of the work for the shop and put the sc up until need for things bigger than 24"

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