rebjr

Contour Cutting with the Laser Point ..

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I could argue the point to no avail. It is not my software that is the problem. I have SBE which came with the LP24 and I bought SignCut, as all of the media I initially saw showed SignCut to be the way to go. SignCut cuts using the USB, but does not follow the path, it is off 1/8" in one direction 3/16th in another. When I use a serial port, well, that's a horse of another color .. I press "cut out" and it rolls the media off the back of the machine not attempting to cut anything.

With SBE, this morning I tried to cut using your method, sent to printer, etc, when it comes back around to the cut it gives me an error message and has everything scattered all over the page.

I have not had the chance to watch your video, I'll do it now, and hope that I will learn much from it. I have already learned a lot from your posts as I am sure many others have as well.

Thanks, Bob

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OK, Eric, I tried and tried again. Following your instructions. First things first, I made a design 2.5" tall, and I placed several of them on a A4 sheet, and I drew my contour lines around them. I moved the contour lines, and converted the image from CDR to cmx, wmf, ai, and a couple of others in this trial. Not different images in the same file, but several conversions overall of the same file and sent at different times, with the same general import problem. All importable to SBE. When I imported to SBE it scattered my images all over the place.

http://www.fivesixdesign.com/hvcontourtest2.html

I must draw the conclusion that as the machine does work as you have demonstrated, that along with it's limitations I have some problem with the learning curve of my own.

Oh to have dexterity of mind and muscle again .....

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Been in my think tank doing review .. the scattered images are most likely due to insufficient RAM in the LP24. This same type of occurance is not uncommon in other mediums when RAM is not available to handle the image(s) sent. At present RAM is not available to remedy this situation.

I am re-reading everything that I can find on the LP24, and rewatching/viewing SBE and SignCut videos/pics to see what I have missed.

There surely must be more than me with a problem, and Eric with a remedy on this forum. Somebody, anybody, chime in!

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The problem is not only you.

I have run out of time ( and patience) to play with it now. When I return form holiday I will play with it more.

Till then all take care and see you in about a month.

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I am not sure where you are going wrong. 

I didnt see where you had saved your file as eps and then imported. I know SBE like eps. Make sure you save it as version 8 in AI when you go to save.

Frankly SB sucks IMO. But it is do-able.

I am not trying to place the blame all on you but as you can see I do it every day all day without problems.

So I would hate to jumo the gun at blaming this or that.

This machine cost 1/4 that of others but other than optic aligning and some having servos instead of steper motors it's all relative.

This is where software comes to play in my thinking.

More so when you spoke of special color software you purchased for Corel.

Eric

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Eric,

I didn't purchase special software for Corel. Color management is an issue with PC's. 995 of the colors that appear on screen do not print that same color. RGB vs CMYK, 2 distinctly different animals. Different monitors connected to the same PC running the same programs more often than not show different colors. Color matching and profiling in MAC is much less a problem than PC's, that is one of the reasons why they are still the predominant choice in publishing. WYSWYG is an almost unknown in the PC world, and is very difficult to attain. With some colors one may have to show a color completely opposite what appears on the screen in order to get that to print. There is a whole industry based on color profiles, but less than 1% of the PC monitor manufacturers even have a profile for there monitors.

If you have done any sublimation then color profiles should not be new to you. The same holds true for any specialty inkjet inks. They all have a profile, and they all must be tuned in to your specific printer/monitor/ and graphics program. If you are buying specialty inks for printing to garments from an inkjet without the profiles the colors will not print correct. Many folks don't give that a second thought, but when I pick a PMS color, that is the color that I want to see on the finished product. And, trust me, when a customer pays some high dollar ad house to desgn them a logo, they aren't gonna settle for PMS 286 if 285 is the color of that million dollar logo.

When you ad a step into the mix (ie: printing from SBE) then you are taking the image which you have created, and profiled in RGB space to print CMYK, and now instead of graphics program (cmyk) to spooler (rgb) to printer (cmyk) to paper (cmyk), you now have graphics program (cmyk) to SBE (rgb) to spooler (rgb) to printer (cmyk) to paper (cmyk). That added rgb step can change the entire color spectrum. It's like making a photocopy of a picture. You take the original and make a good photocopy, but if you take that photocopy and make a duplicate you lose image clarity, and so on, and so on.

So, I didn't buy any special programns for Corel. I bought color profiles to work with the various inks and printers that I use, so that WYSIWYG is as close to being attainable as can be with a PC. With that, I still have to use some color substitutions to get where I need it to be.

For somebody who prints red, yellow, navy, royal, black, green, etc., this is not at all important. Unless they use an application that changes the yellow from yellow to green, then they are hollering.

And, image integrity is definately lost in the transition. I don't know if you looked at the bottom 2 pictures that I posted, but SBE did a pretty good job of butchering my image.

www.fivesixdesign.com/hvcontourtest2.html

I will try illustrator 8 and see what happens.

The machine is a worthy machine, again, don't get me wrong. But, by the same token it should not be so difficult to perform this simple task in either SignCut or SignBlazer. And, the machine should be recognized as a printer, as is the case with most every cutter that I know of. That allows one flexability.

I have been using Corel since day one, that's a long, long time ago. 1989 to be exact. So, I am partial, and I have used it with a number of cutters. I dare say that I will not switch my design methods to anything else, I am too old. And to be honest, my success or failure has nothing to do with this machine. My income won't suffer one way or the other. But it is aggravating.

Arrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... rant .. pant n' rave .....

Anyway, so long as I don't run out of my meds my temper and blood pressure should remain manageable .. LOL ..

Didn't get your message until late, maybe we can talk tomorrow.

Bob

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Sheww. hold on let me catch my breath......  ;D

Ok, Yes I completely understand color management.  If you haven

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Eric,

And, of course as you must be aware, Adobe on MAC runs differently than Adobe on a PC.

Beyond the color management, I still have the problem, and I am sure that it is someplace in my set-up, that I can't get SBE to get to the point of cutting.

With SignCut, according to their info one can print in an entirely different program, set up registration marks in that program, etc., and then go to the cutter. That is where I feel SBE is lacking. I have sent SBE a message but so far no response.

In SignCut I am able to do everything, except my cut patch does not align at all. It cuts correctly, but it is off centered, as is shown in my pictures on www.fivesixdesign.com/hvcontourtest1.html

Have you looked at www.fivesixdesign.com/hvcontourtest1.html  ?  Do any of your lines bold up when sending to the printer via SBE as mine did?

I can't help but feel that I am being anal in my search for an answer here. I got way off issue with my rather lengthy color rant. But, SBE did butcher my logo, and that p'd me off and I took it out on the color, which it may or may not have an effect on.

I do a lot in PhotoShop, have little use for Illustrator, but folks who weened on that run circles around me.

Are you using a MAC by any chance? Not to start another discussion, but if you are that may explain some things. MAC's do do things different.

Thanks for sticking with me so far.

Bob

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I have the same problem, it cuts good most of the time but when it gets to the top left of my sheet, its a bit off. I did try compensating by offsetting the reg marks which kinda worked but still a bit off.. I want it perfect.

If this were A/V I would say that the cutter's linearity is off..

Wayne

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Eric, enjoyed the conversation .. I hope that I retained half of what you said ;-)

Wayne, Are you using SBE or SignCut? USB or serial?

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Same Here ;D

I am still on the war path with you.

I love solving problems.

And someday down the road soner or later i may run into this my self and not have the time to find the fix, so nows the time IMO.

Eric

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Eric, enjoyed the conversation .. I hope that I retained half of what you said ;-)

Wayne, Are you using SBE or SignCut? USB or serial?

I am using SBE and USB....

I did speak with Ken earlier and he suggested that possbily the rollers are slipping we can tighten them up apparently, which made me think, I never really thought of that, I am going to check this weekend.

WAyne

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True but I am not on board with that my self from what I have heard from you.

You say it cut great, everything is the right shape etc it just is not aligned.  It's cutting 1/8 off on the right side and giving 1/8  on the left.  If the rollers were slipping It would not be consistent.

But it's possible.

Eric

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Eric,

Still having trouble with my 'chine doing what I want it to do .. contour cut. I did do some regular everyday layouts t'other day, stuff that would be considered "normal" vinyl cutting, did it with the pen tool, worked fine ....

Ken has offered to send me an RMA, may take him up on it.

I brought in my laptop from home, and it has a serial port on it. Still couldn't get it to work from there either. The folks at SC said that a driver isn't needed when running from a serial direct. But, as the machine itself is not recognized as a device (only the driver is) I have to wonder about that.

Bob

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So you got SB to pen plot a design?

I know you said everytime you went to cut it would error.

So does it only error when after you have printed a cut AND then go to "Cut a print"?

What ever it is is so simple it's going to be funny.

It could be on setting, one number, one simple somthing.

Send me your eps.

Let me try running it.

Eric

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I will send it to you in the morning when I get back to the shop.

As the vector itself is full of lines, I even tried it as a jpeg, no such luck. I wasn't plotting in SBE, I don't think, was in SC I believe, although I did take SBE off my regular machine and put it on the laptop.

I agree with you, I think, in that it is prolly something very simple. Then again, when Ken called me that day it was doing all kinds of weird stuff and based on that he's offered to send an RMA. But, the first time in my life, the first time ever I threw the box away the day I unpacked it. Dumb with a capitol "A".

Oh well.

Got a question that leads to other things tho, and possibly a easy fix. I read someplace, I think, that SBE would cut by color. Is this true? If so, then the registration and all other things sgould not be in play, or should they? It has no "eye" to see the color, now does it?

Also, not sure that I understand the calibration in the SC program for the laserpoint. Whenever I run mine, I start from my far right registration point, it is my "0"x, "0"y. It goes down about an inch and inward about 3/4 inch, draws a cross hair. then returns to the point of origin, then I follow the instructions and reposition the laser to the center of the crosshair. This is supposed to somehow calibrate the offset of the laser. Now, everytime I look at it or think about it applying any logic, it seems that for it to travel that far down and that far across is a mighty huge offset. And, where would one, or how would they apply it?

Anybody got any ideas?

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Hey,

Yes, SB will cut by colors.

If you are cutting vinyl for an example, say it is the US flag. Red, White and Blue.

When you click "Cut" in SB and it brings you to the cutting GUI you will see the three colors on the left hand side.

With vinyl you simply throw in the color you want to cut in the machine and choose that color on the left and cut.

It only cuts the parts in that color.

I cant say I totally understand what your asking on the sign cut thing.

When you print your decal signcut should have already added the Reg marks.

With SB you print the decal and when it prints SB adds the reg marks.

Then you go to Cut a print.

Then it pops up with a align gui. You move the cut head over the first reg mark with the keyboard so the computer can take in the refs then you move it to the second so it can tie in the ref points. Once you do this you click next and it goes back to the home position. (back to the first reg mark) and you click cut.

I know you have sunk a few dollars in Sign cut and I am not saying you should throw it in the waste basket.

But you should really try to use SB to get it going and then move to the third party application such as SC.

You say SB keeps giving you an error when you go to print a cut or cut a print.

But You never told me if you were able to get SB to cut/pen plot going about it the cutting vinyl way.

You did that with SC correct?

Also there

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Actually SC only cost me $38, as they have a variety of plans. I bought it because it appeared to be super easy to use, create your image in whatever probgram you would like, be sure to put registration marks on it, they recommend 10mm, and print it from the application you created it in, then after printing, put it in the machine, and follow the sign cut instructions and voila .. you are off an running. But, that is not the case.

I will try to run something thru SBE again later today to see if I can get it to work. In the mean time ..

What driver did you use?

Are you going direct from the serial port? I currently am, and am having no more luck than I did with the USB/Serial convertor.

Here is an eps and a jpg of my image. I have no doubt that you will get it to work. I also have no doubt that it is either something very, very, very simple, or I have a defective machine. As to which end of the spectrum I am on I know not, yet.

;-)

hv.eps

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hv.eps

post-2303-12986518831067_thumb.jpg

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Heres a screenshot im using a serial cable.It says Blazer.Com1:Comunications Port

untitled3-1-1.jpg

I just noticed my blade offset is set at 0.00 what should it be set at? it cuts perfect

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You can change the offset if your letters, shapes or whatever your cutting is not completely closing from the start cut to the end of the cut?

Eric

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Eric,

Did you check the files that I sent, see this thread back a couple, to see if you had any problems cutting printing and/or cutting them?

At this point I am using:

WIN XP Pro

Serial port to serial port

SBE

When I open SBE and get my window, I go to cutter to set up the cutter, the cutter window opens and when I select set-up I get a fatal error.So, if I am on the wrong port at this poiont there is no way to correct it as the fatal error shuts me down. So, right now at this very minute I cannot print anything from SBE using the plotter pen or the blade, it doesn't really matter, it just does not work.

I can open SC and print until my heart is content. Plot all kinds of neat stuff, BUT as soon as I begin to enter the contour controls then I lock up, and have to shut everything down and start over again.

I don't like SBE, and from what I've seen on their forum they don't answer any questions there. I have emailed for a week to get a new activation number for my laptop, (I unintsalled online as instructed). SBE is like VISTA and AOL and Norton all in one .. it wants to take over your computer and force you to do everything it's way, as far as I can tell.

Eric, you have this mastered, but I cannot get it to work at any level today. SC let's you d/l and run full blown for a week or so. Would you please download it and try it and see if it works for you. If it does then I have a bad machine and I will take Ken up on his RMA offer. Or maybe you will find what I am doing wrong in SC.

But SC does something on my machine, that's far more than SBE does, so it is hard for me to justify sticking to SBE, know what I mean?

Here is the d/l link for sign cut:

http://www.sc-x2.com/free_trial.html

I know it's a lot to ask, but as you love a challenge, etc., etc., I need to figure this out one way or another.

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So I downloaded Sign Cut x2.

I was able after simply calibrating the machines laser offset to cut the decal just fine.

The one thing I did that may make a big difference is I used the supplied template (Letter size) to put your HV decal in.

This template has the reg marks included you simply throw in your images inside those points.

I also took the time to look at your complaint with the color change and this distorting of your nodes in SB.

I also took snap shots of what your Original ESP looks like in AI then in SC as well as SB.

I would say AI obviously handle the colors much better.

This is due to the fact that the sign cutting software converts colors to what colors are available in vinyl.

I tried many color management option in SB to get it to show in full render detail but was unsuccessful in doing so.

SC does not have near the options and thus I found no way to adjust color management in SC.

If you compare the image "HVinSB" to the image "YourHV" , SB handled the colors just the same as from what ever program you took the Decal snap shot from.

I have not yet had the chance to bring this up in Corel x3 as I do not have it on the computer I am working on.

I assume the EPS you posted of your logo is that directly saved from Corel v12.

If this is the case I see no issues with you using this EPS file in signcut.

How ever after reviewing the logo, as you noted before you have left a bit of "bleed" for the contour cut around the outer edge.

The problem is your bleed is not offset enough in the terms of the out come look.

Most all of your out side circular patterns have the same offset thickness.

The very last "black" outside contour node has offset colors from the tool path.

So the color is offset a few points to the left and right of this tool path to give the look of a thick line around the contour of the decal which also matches the same thickness of the inward paths with offsets.

When you cut the contour of this image you will obviously be cutting the very last contour circular pattern.

When you do this the blade is going to follow the node path.

This means the decal will be clipped at the half section.

The completed out come will look like picture "wrongbleed"

You need to add an additional offset line to make for your "full bleed" for the decal.

Take a look at picture "HVoutcome"

Also the EPS file you posted needs to be flattened. You have about 4 layers of each node stacked right on top of each other.

When I imported your EPS into SB (see "HVinSB") I only got one thrown off node on the "S" in vets.

This is more than likely due to all the additional nodes and there EPS data. Removing all the additional layers should clear this up.

I myself am not very happy about SB not giving you the option to view in non CMYK or in "Vinyl available colors only" if it does indeed print the same as it looks in the preview window.  My hope is this is simply a preview and that it will actually print in full RBG render.

If not this is basically useless to any one doing more than half arse decals.  Not very happy....

I am unable to test this myself.

If anyone would/could download this eps and simply print it from SB and let us know that would be great.

Again Bob, I used the templates provided along with Signcutx2 which has the Reg marks already illustrated and simply filled in with your decals.  They suggest using their template for contour cutting. Makes sense to me. If you are not doing this I highly suggest you give it a try.

Though I can not 100% say it is not your machine if I was in Vegas I would bet the house on it, that it is not.

Eric

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Eric,

Thanks ..

I got SC working lastnight, and sent off some further questions to the folks at SC this morning about fine tuning.

I used my own registration marks last night, but I will try their template today and see how it works out. That is an A4 template, which is not any problem as I stock A4 paper in my opaque line. I'll have to space them out for 11x17, as I also stock that size.

Without your help and cooperation I was about to hang it up and stick with scissors, but as I now know either program DOES work. I still don't have SBE working on my machine, but that's of no matter as I like the flexability and control that SC gives me far and above what SBE robs me of.

I used a straight generic EPS and she cut just fine.

Again, thanks for all of your help.

Now, what can we come up with next? This can't be the end of the challenge. ;-)

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