codyclark02

Trying to pick between US Cutter's 28" titan 2, and the 15" titan 3.

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I like both of them. They seem to have pretty much the same basic features.

 

The 28" Titan 2 is larger but is $100 more and does not have the ARMS thing, or vacuum feed roller thing. I'm really not sure that I would even use those two things since I really don't know what they are for.

 

The Titan 3 15" is a newer model, $100 less, has ARMS and the vacuum feed feature.

 

BOTH of them use servo motors, which I hear is a huge plus!

 

I think it's going to come down to this one question... Will I be able to do everything I want with only a 15" cutter? For smaller decals the 15" would be perfect, but what happens if I want to do a shirt or a business name and contact info on a vehicle? Those might be doable, but could be much more difficult with a 15" than the 28".

 

I need advice!

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Only you can answer the question of where you want to be in a year.... that will answer your question not a bunch of folks on the web. 

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That mini unit will limit you, obviously.

 

You'll be able to do whatever you want with the Titan II  24" and the $100 cost difference is virtually meaningless as you move forward and get paid for work.

 

I wish there was a 30" TItan II. Not sure why there isn't.

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Keep in mind by rotating your art work you cant go as tall as 14 (ish) inches tall with art work on the smaller model.  You could almost double that on the titan 2.   I have the titan 2 and it works great.  Do you see yourself getting into projects where you might need to be taller than 14 inches.  Keep in mind you could do a cargo trailer with that height.  Each line would be cut seperate is all.

 

If it were me, I think I would lean toward the wider cutter.... so much more you can do with the difference in width.

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15" vinyl also has punched holes along the edges designed for the old school sprocket cutters which can cause problems with tracking making you hold inside even more from the edges. 

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unless you have a specific need and planned use for a 15" then go for the 28 titan 2.

 

For example if you where going to a craft fair and your niche is 6"x6" decal and that's the only thing you do then get the 15" titan 3.

But by the sounds of it you're not sure what you're going to be doing and you're open to any business than you're going to need something bigger then 15"  

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I thought the same thing when i bought my titan 2 28" cutter. I didnt need what the the titan 3 offered but i was originally going to get the 15" cause i never thought i would need to go bigger ,well im glad i did cause i get alot of larger jobs now which i would of lost money on but since i stepped up to the 28" i make more money.....but i will be upgrading to a larger one soon.Having a one step up size is better than having to small of a machine just in case.Uscutter lets you upgrade to a larger one if under warranty still and gives you full price value for a newer machine.(At least thats what they are doing for me) .I will be getting the 50" and only having to pay the difference between the 28 and the 50 which i thought was a great deal..Think bigger just in case in my own opinion..

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I'd personally go with neither of the two as you've listed.

 

The Titan 2 does not have ARMS cutting which is CONTOUR CUTTING of shaped DIGITALLY PRINTED graphics on to vinyl substrate (this is a big deal if you should want to get into digital printing). The size at 28" is really nice...you always want the biggest cutter you can afford. Minimum 24" and as big as they go so you don't have to manually cut rolls of vinyl to fit your cutter (this requires a saw and a vacuum to clean up the debris - though you can easily get 24" rolls of already cut vinyl you can save money by buying the larger rolls and trimming them down to fit your cutter). The small cutter is good for Scrapbookers and Papercrafters but that's seriously about it...the time you waste getting it to cut larger material tiled out is better spent elsewhere.

 

The small 15" cutter is incredibly limiting if you get traction with your business. You WANT ARMS capability -  trust me. I have a very capable and pro line of cutter called the Copam CP 2500 (24") and the only things it doesn't have are servo motors (it has steppers, not a big deal but servos are MUCH quieter) and the fact that it can't do contour cutting of printed graphics on vinyl. That's the ARMS thingy you're overlooking which is way bigger than servo motors. It's huge. I haven't been able to get my Copam to MANUALLY contour cut either (using trial and error and careful manual alignment) but that tends to be a cutting software limiting factor and possibly the fact that the firmware of my cutter may not actually be able to do micro-stepping movements.

 

My cutter otherwise is perfect for my needs. It doesn't have vacuum hold down capability of substrates but that isn't that big of a deal. It's nice to have, but not required. It aids in tracking over longer distances...that's pretty much it. But if you are careful in substrate loading in the first place, the vacuum suction isn't required. If I could upgrade to a 24" Titan 3 I would simply for the ARMS capability.

 

My Suggestion: The Titan 3 is where you want to spend your money but at a minimum of 24". So save your money and get a bigger size cutter than 15". Go collect bottles if you have to but you'll be glad you did...don't scrimp now or you'll be mad at yourself in the near future. The money you make off larger size jobs will allow you recoup the cost of your initial investment way faster.

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Just my $0.02 chiming in on ARMS. Everyone who doesn't have some sort of optical eye system thinks it's got to be the best thing since ice cream and all that. The truth is unless you also spend some serious coin on a large format Solvent or Eco-solvent printer then the practicality of that feature is minimal. I have a Summa with OPUS which is Summa's version of ARMS. Summa actually pioneered the entire concept of an optical eye so they are smokin good. I have used the optical eye like...twice in 3 years. The times I used it were for some 3G heat transfers for tee shirts. The isses that you get into is that you have to maintain a sufficient  amount of space around your design for the registration marks. By the time you leave that room you really limit the size of the design you can effectively print and transfer, even using 11x17 sheets. Basically it meant that I burned up a whole sheet for two smaller graphics where I could squeeze 4 in there if I just hand trimmed. Obviously if I was doing a whole bunch of those I would just bid in the cost and plan on wasting the excess but I actually hate any of the transfers for darks including 3G (it just seems to be about the best of the bunch)and don't do enough of them to worry about contour cutting them.  So at the end of the day my bet is that you won't be needing the optical eye until you are also comfortable dropping another $12-20K at which time you can get a name brand cutter (or a print and cut) and be done with it. The other thing I think you might want if and when the day comes to really need an optical eye would be perf cutting so you can print hundreds of small decals and contour cut around them as well as perf cut so you can just pop them out of the carrier sheet and have ready to apply stickers. Graphtec and Summa will both do this feature. There may be others that will also. I guess my point is that the extra expense for that specific feature (ARMS) seems a little silly to me being one who sits here with that capability. 

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cody, don't get concerned about ARMS.

wildgoose is correct and provides a detailed description of why you won't care about it.

 

Order the 28" Titan 2 and go ahead, have fun.

If I were you, a call to USCUTTER would probably result in a slight discount ( I see they're offering a 'deal' for $845.75 http://www.uscutter.com/28-inch-TITAN-2-Vinyl-Cutter )

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Same here,  I did not buy my Graphtec for the ARMS feature,, I bought it because I wanted a 30" professional cutter with a servo motor,  great tracking.and better memory. I only cut vinyl and my cutter does everything that I need.  It paid for it's self in about 6 weeks. 

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"It paid for itself in about 6 weeks."

 

 

Slacker.

 

:ph34r:

It was the FC unit also. Bigger cutter, larger decals, and higher prices.  I only work part time from home. ;D   This cutter is 8 years old this month.. Never a problem.. 

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"It paid for itself in about 6 weeks."

 

 

Slacker.

 

:ph34r:

LOL Work smarter not harder.

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If you're only ever going to do vinyl cutting and nothing but vinyl cutting then yes, you don't need ARMS (sandblast stencils, templates for positioning 3D cut plastic or metal letters for reception signs or even non intensive designed t-shirts (using heat transfer vinyl) don't need ARMS capability). But you also don't need servo motors either, just saying...The moment you decide to do anything digitally printed (which is a natural progression in this business), you'll want ARMS and the Titan 2 doesn't have it - period.

Oh and you don't need to spend $12-20K on a large format Eco-solvent printer to START with if you want to do digital printing on vinyl. You can use relatively inexpensive desktop sized printers to print with Eco-solvent inks to do this, read here: http://sorentec.ca/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=60 as an example to peak your interest. The web has plenty of other examples too. You just need the right printer, printhead, eco-solvent ink and substrate combination. You'll also need some type of lamination (liquid, cold or hot laminate) to protect prints from the elements and scratches if used outdoors but that's another ball of wax too you'll run into.

Now you may be able to manually align and contour cut using the Titan 2 (Using SignCut Productivity Pro or Flexisign 8.5 Pro (or higher) but like I said, not every non-ARMS vinyl cutter can do this contour cutting manually. Mine can't. There is a USCutter Laserpoint cutter that doesn't have ARMS but does have a simple laserpointer and it's several hundred dollars cheaper than the Titan2 or 3 that can do contour cutting, but it's a time intensive manual alignment process that needs repeating for EVERY decal you contour cut. There is an upgraded version of my Copam that also has a laserpointer too for that matter that can assist in contour cutting...I didn't realize this right off the start. Looking back, I would have bought the Copam with the laserpointer back then had I known.

So I offered my advice based on my own experiences and if I could do it all over again with the same budget, I would get a contour cutting capable cutter and to have it automated with ARMS is now the much preferred route. I'm limited with what I can do now for clients with the equipment I have and soon enough, you will be too. Not many of my clients want pure vinyl cut graphics (businesses often want privacy etch vinyl cut for glass though). Most want digitally printed graphics and quite often contour cut depending on their application (especially vehicle graphics).

You only have a limited budget to start with so try and think ahead to maximize your dollar and avoid pitfalls. As your experience (and business) grows you'll find out you'll probably outgrow your original equipment anyhow. So why start off that way right off the bat?

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  According to Flexistarter 10, You could manually contour cut with your Copam  and Flexistarter10.  It does not need an optical eye.  The contour cutting is in the Flexistarter 10 program,   it is also in Flexistarter 8.6 V2  (I have it)  and 11,  and uses the blade in the middle of the registration mark.   All of these cutters can contour cut with out ARMS or a laser.  See the DRIVER list in the EBAY ad below.   And when doing detailed work or small text, you will want a servo motor.  But you can make your money first on a stepper motor cutter, and upgrade to that later,   

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Flexistarter-10-Cloud-Vinyl-Cutter-Plotter-best-Contour-Cutting-software-/251518011978?hash=item3a8fa44a4a:g:SE4AAMXQNo5TXye1

 

Listed for UScutter

 

USCUTTER:
MH-series (MH-871, MH-720 etc.), 
LaserPoint Series. 
Copam CP Series
Creation Series
Zen Series

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I've been getting conflicting information on the Copam, but I believe you Mz Skeeter and it's based on your feedback alone that gives me hope but I've found elsewhere (and in the Copam subforum on here) information that says it can't do it.  :wacko:  I looked at the ad you've listed too and it definitely does say Copam CP will work with Flexi Starter 10 but I can't find anyone anywhere that has a Copam that has it working. There are no videos or anecdotal text proving this. I've also found a video on YouTube saying any cutter can do it manually but it's just software related - which makes sense to me. I am of the belief that it should be software related just as you mention, but I haven't been able to find 100% proof yet. It's driving me batty trying to figure it out. It seems no one on here these days, that's active, has a Copam but myself or at least bothers to post for I'd really like to bounce ideas back and forth.

 

And I haven't been able to contour cut on it myself of course. Granted I don't have Flexistarter 8.6v2 or 10 (a $217 CAD test investment if I buy the listing you posted on eBay), 11 or 12 to try or I would without doubt. I came across some information that SignCut Productivity Pro 1.95 wouldn't work at all with the on-screen micro adjustment keys and the Copam but I haven't tried 1.96 or 2 beta. If the software wasn't so darn expensive and so critical to getting any cutter to work properly, then I'd gladly ditch my SignGo Pro FD 1.20. I'll have to go on a trial spree one day after I image my computer and find out one way or another...

 

I do appreciate your reply and input though. Trust me, I listen to you. :)

 

 

 

 

  According to Flexistarter 10, You could manually contour cut with your Copam  and Flexistarter10.  It does not need an optical eye.  The contour cutting is in the Flexistarter 10 program,   it is also in Flexistarter 8.6 V2  (I have it)  and 11,  and uses the blade in the middle of the registration mark.   All of these cutters can contour cut with out ARMS or a laser.  See the DRIVER list in the EBAY ad below.   And when doing detailed work or small text, you will want a servo motor.  But you can make your money first on a stepper motor cutter, and upgrade to that later,   

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Flexistarter-10-Cloud-Vinyl-Cutter-Plotter-best-Contour-Cutting-software-/251518011978?hash=item3a8fa44a4a:g:SE4AAMXQNo5TXye1

 

Listed for UScutter

 

USCUTTER:
MH-series (MH-871, MH-720 etc.), 
LaserPoint Series. 
Copam CP Series
Creation Series
Zen Series

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Keep watching Ebay for used Flexistarter.  I pick them up for between $50-70,, when I see them.. Also,, wouldn't the download Cloud version be cheaper for you? As there are no customs with shipping. ,,  Here is different Ebay seller.  I just grabbed one before..  . 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-FlexiStarter-10-Cloud-Vinyl-Cutter-Plotter-Flexi-Starter-for-Sign-Letter/171308352393?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35605%26meid%3Dd1206d9cd34e4c618578517f5346b4f2%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D251518011978

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I've manually contour cut with starter 10 so I can vouch that it will work however I found the process a bit slow.

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Ya, after spending hours trying to get SignGo to contour cut with the Copam, I give up...the calibration controls for the program to communicate with the cutter won't even move. It should be moving the cutter head but instead nothing happens, period. Similar to what this person was dealing with: http://forum.uscutter.com/index.php?/topic/45157-contour-cutting-with-copam-cp-2500-and-signcut/

 

Again, for the record, I stand by what I said originally about the cutter not being able to contour cut. If it is indeed software related, then it's some kind of setting that needs a rocket scientist to figure out. And since no one offers decent cutting software with decent evaluation periods (I'm looking at you Flexisign) (except SignGo's 30 day evealutation - which doesn't seem to work properly for me) then I'd say good luck finding if it will contour cut manually with your cutter because it's not easy...at least with Copams anyhow.

 

Look, if my wasted time (HOURS, if not days) is anything to go by, don't bother with any cutter than doesn't have ARMS - that's automatic recognition of registration marks for contour cutting. If/when it comes time to contour cut, you'll wish you had spent the extra cash right off the bat to get a proper cutter.  I sure do!!!

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Chaos maybe you have already tried the free week of SignCut pro? I can't recall if you said you did or not. If you do try them out be sure and get in touch with the live tech support they offer. They will actually talk to you and work through it even hooking up and working your computer if you need. I have never seen as good of tech support as they have. A lot of people don't realize that they are so well supported. You can also purchase usage in as small as a week at a time if you are still unsure on a commitment. I ended up getting the full lifetime dongle because I want to be able to jump from a couple different computers easily but for quite a while I just did the internet key which worked fine too. 

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Chaos maybe you have already tried the free week of SignCut pro? I can't recall if you said you did or not. If you do try them out be sure and get in touch with the live tech support they offer. They will actually talk to you and work through it even hooking up and working your computer if you need. I have never seen as good of tech support as they have. A lot of people don't realize that they are so well supported. You can also purchase usage in as small as a week at a time if you are still unsure on a commitment. I ended up getting the full lifetime dongle because I want to be able to jump from a couple different computers easily but for quite a while I just did the internet key which worked fine too. 

 

Thank you for your reply Wildgoose. No, I haven't actually tried to download and use a week trial with them yet but I'm definitely going to when I get some more time to play around with things. I do like the ability to rent their software in "increments" but if I was to buy it would be a dongle edition...I want to own something physical. I'm interested in their version 2 of the software and since it's in beta, I might try a 1.96.4 trial and then, if possible, try the 2.0 when released.

 

I do have some extremely good news though in the fact that I was "just" able to use a friend's copy of Flexisign Pro 8.6V2 for some contour cutting trials with the Copam. I have outlined this in this thread: http://forum.uscutter.com/index.php?/topic/51137-flexi-driver-for-copam-cp2500-vs-dgi-om60/ with more information and a video tutorial on how to use Flexi 10 and setup contour cutting. Anyhow, the part that I was most happy about is that the Copam actually responded and the carriage head MOVED in microstep movements. I didn't actually get far enough along in my trials to print something out but that's my next steps. The calibration settings WORKED though and the rest is trivial I think! I'm so happy, you have no idea...

 

What a long back and forth saga this has turned out to be...but ya, I have to eat my words in post #22 and say that manual contour cutting is definitely possible with the Copam CP-2500 and Mz Skeeter was correct from the get go, buy, use FlexiStarter or Pro. I have posted a help support ticket in SignGo's support forum on manual contour cutting with the Copam, but I'm not too sure if I'll be able to get it to work. If not, I'm selling the software and I'm buying FlexiStarter. Enough messing around...

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