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Hi everyone,

I have been working on a design for my daughters riding instructor to go on her gooseneck. I havent completely finshed the trailer yet (needs a little pinstriping etc) but she wants me to

bill her for work so far. I have spend approx $300 on the vinyl (glitter vinyl) I have produced the logo design myself from scratch ( yes started on a sketchbook and vectorised). I spent a day installing the vinyl on both sides of the trailer and three hearts with text cut in to each one and her phone number on the tailgate.

Problem is I have no idea what to charge her!!! of course I will charge the above $300 for the vinyl but as far as the logo design, its eps file ( she wants to use it on her car etc) and installation of the vinyl I have no idea! This is the first big job I have done and it turned out a lot bigger than expected...My business is wall art specialising in childrens rooms.

Check out the photo below and let me know what you think is a fair price. Thanks!!!

post-6384-0-14838200-1307673278_thumb.jp

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Decide what hourly rate you want (I charge $45.00-$65.00/hr). You should have a general idea of how long it took you and simply multiply the number of hours by the hourly rate. It may take a while to to get yourself to think hourly but you'll get the hang of it pretty soon or else you'll go out of business. I do sandblasting, vinyl/other stuff (paint) signs and furniture repair/refinishing and sometimes I get my hourly and sometimes I mess up and don't (I'm still close however)but, all in all, you'll get tired of giving away your labors real quick.

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I charge $25 an hour for sitting down work,$35 an hour for standing up work,and $50 an hour for anything that requires a ladder. If it's outside and the temp is over 80, I add $10 an hour.

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EDIT : The post I was responding to is missing now .

$60 for 48 square feet = $1.25 per square foot. I don't see how that makes his advice " phoney ' :huh: John is a bargain hunter & buys vinyl & banners at bargain prices ... $25 an hour he states .. how many banners do you think he can do in an hour :huh: John knows his actual costs & how long it takes him . In tough times , you will find out who stays busy & in business instead of sitting watching the phone , hoping it rings . If you look in any sign magazine , you wil find VERY cheap banners by the square foot . Everybody on this forum is a bargain hunter & some realize there are customers that would rather pay less than more & are as savy as we are . Some think some customers just got off the ship .

I'll bet you John can prove his rates & I'll bet on it .. heck I'll give you odds .

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OK

If you read ebay post you will see something like

"unlimited number Of colors And Lines Of text"

That been said i will answer your question How many Banners (4x12) He can produce in an hour.

ZERO

From design it on comp , cutting, changing roll Of vinyl,weed it , Mask it, mount it on the banner, hemm the banner, Install the grommets.

As advices beeing phoney i was talking about saying he charge$5 sqft.

Its nice to Stand up for a friend Roger, i applaud you for it.

It was just something i was about to bring up for long time.

i have respect for his age but BS is BS does not metter where it comes from.

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i think this market is slammed enough with all of the people trying to beat each others prices. just because you get your supplies at a lower price you should still charge the going rate as though you paid full price for your supplies. we all have the obligation to keep the prices up. its not a race to the bottom and see who is left standing. please i own all the equipment i have, i pay no rent, and i still call around and price check my comp. just to make sure prices stay high so we all can make ALOT of money.

but thats just my .02

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Its not My job to tell anyone How Much to charge for there work , but come on look around , look at jfought .

He stArt doing this few years ago Same as fivestar using cheap cutters And in short time They bought new equipment without Any loans.

They did it becasuse They charged fair prices And using Good materials.

If They were bottom feeders They would not be in position They are now .

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@ JF , Hechingers had the same mindset when Home Depot came out . Hechingers went the way of the Dinosaurs . I spent 2 minutes searching banners on e-bay & found several banner ads , offered @ 99 cents per square foot ... any amount of colors , text etc . technology never stops & as more people buy vinyl cutters & vinyl printers , the prices will drop like flies . If business is good , no need to compete for jobs ,.. if it is slow , prices have to be competitive . If materials can be bought much cheaper , the profit is greater even at a reduced price . The local hardware store which went out of business last month could buy from Home Depot cheaper than their suppliers . Volume buying makes a huge difference .

@ Neron ,

I did not see where John said $5 per square foot in this thread . I remember many people saying they charge this & that in other threads . I know anybody can change their prices at a whim . there is a name for things that are sold below actual costs in order to drum up business ( I seen spark plugs on sale for 99 cents when the store paid more for them ). That is an OLD business trick ,just like the new car on sale for CHEAP . very few people would buy that stripped down model ( which was sold the day before the ad came out in most instances to a buddy ) I know there has been alot of hostility here about prices & heavy d posted something similar to what you posted not long ago . I have never made a banner , so I am just guessing . I think I could turn out a banner in an hour if having constant banners to do . Cut banner material for an hour , sew & grommet for an hour etc .. have the cutter cutting the text while I am doing that . John's advice as far as his hourly rate could be true if he spent 2 hours on that banner if he paid $10 for the material . Just because he sells some banners for $1.25 per foot on e-bay , does not mean he does not charge $5 per foot to some customers ( If he posted he charges $5 per foot ) .

At any rate , I appreciate you saying I am sticking up for a friend , which I am . BUT I let whoever is telling he story the honor of telling it their way .. it is their story to tell . Calling advice " phony " & BS is not what this forum is about . heavy d found that out !!! It would be much more congenial to ask questions like in this case ... " how do you make your hourly rate selling banners for $1.25 per square foot ? " that way no direct offense is directed at anybody & an explanation can clear it up without any damage . New perspectives can be attained which benefits everybody . Like I said to JF , things constantly change & if a business does not change with them ... they get left behind .

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Its not My job to tell anyone How Much to charge for there work , but come on look around , look at jfought .

He stArt doing this few years ago Same as fivestar using cheap cutters And in short time They bought new equipment without Any loans.

They did it becasuse They charged fair prices And using Good materials.

If They were bottom feeders They would not be in position They are now .

I am not busting on JF & 5 at all , but I bet the established storefront business thought JF & 5 were " bottom feeders " when they bought the cheap cutters & did what you say . Many Sign shops would still consider them that . A buddy I know buys $250,000 + printers for their sign business every time something newer & tricker comes out . They can print 8' stuff a few years ago , I don't have a clue what they have now as I have not kept up with what they have . Anybody with less than they have are considered " bottom feeders " to them . It is just a matter of opinion .Come to think of it .. Home Depot started out as a bottom feeder according to Hechingers ( the main store was in Glen Burnie & I did some work for the owner about the time Home Depot started up ) . He used MUCH harsher words than " bottom feeder " :) . What is fair is what the market will bear & what promotes business . John is overcharging @ $1.25 in view of ALL the 99 cents prices i found in a 2 minute search . I probably could find cheaper ...

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My sentiment is if myself or someone can produce a quality product at a given price that is half of what others can or will, then that person is the one who will still be around to tell a story later when all of the customers have left all the other shops in favor of the other lesser expensive one IF the product is quality.

Customers buy because they want something- give them a reason to spend more on yours wether it be quality, or whatever niche you offer. Me? I attend a ton of craft shows and put out more volume than any other person at the show. Why? Because I bust my butt and custom cut everything on the spot instead of having a ton of stock of standard items... It's just more lucrative and I can, will, and do charge more for it.... if the other folks at the shows stop selling- they wont come back or they will compete with me. If they do... well, I guess I will have to up my game and better them to give customers a reason to keep buying, even though they will already KNOW my name.

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My sentiment is if myself or someone can produce a quality product at a given price that is half of what others can or will, then that person is the one who will still be around to tell a story later when all of the customers have left all the other shops in favor of the other lesser expensive one IF the product is quality.

Customers buy because they want something- give them a reason to spend more on yours wether it be quality, or whatever niche you offer. Me? I attend a ton of craft shows and put out more volume than any other person at the show. Why? Because I bust my butt and custom cut everything on the spot instead of having a ton of stock of standard items... It's just more lucrative and I can, will, and do charge more for it.... if the other folks at the shows stop selling- they wont come back or they will compete with me. If they do... well, I guess I will have to up my game and better them to give customers a reason to keep buying, even though they will already KNOW my name.

Good realistic advice :thumbsup:

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OK

If you read ebay post you will see something like

"unlimited number Of colors And Lines Of text"

That been said i will answer your question How many Banners (4x12) He can produce in an hour.

ZERO

From design it on comp , cutting, changing roll Of vinyl,weed it , Mask it, mount it on the banner, hemm the banner, Install the grommets.

As advices beeing phoney i was talking about saying he charge$5 sqft.

Its nice to Stand up for a friend Roger, i applaud you for it.

It was just something i was about to bring up for long time.

i have respect for his age but BS is BS does not metter where it comes from.

OK, ..let me tell you how it is. That particular listing was for an individual who wanted two blank banners. I was busy. So I just used another listing, changed the price and size, and listed 3. he bought one and I forgot to pull the other 2.

What I sell for on ebay is just that..what I sell for on ebay.When I started on ebay there was me and one other guy. Now there are hundreds. Check the other prices..and you will see that I am right in line with everyone else. I make money. Not huge money but a nice profit. In any market,you have to be competitive with everyone else.That's just the fact of it. And btw.. I use pre-hemmed and grommeted banners

For local work, I charge what I said I charge. I did 7 Vans for the local meals on wheels awhile back...cleared $130 each for an hour's work.

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i think this market is slammed enough with all of the people trying to beat each others prices. just because you get your supplies at a lower price you should still charge the going rate as though you paid full price for your supplies. we all have the obligation to keep the prices up. its not a race to the bottom and see who is left standing. please i own all the equipment i have, i pay no rent, and i still call around and price check my comp. just to make sure prices stay high so we all can make ALOT of money.

but thats just my .02

as Rodger pointed out, the going rate on EBAY seems to be .99 cents a square foot. For full printed.And the Chinese can ship to the US cheaper than I can ship 100 miles.

One more thing...I asked two different printers on here for a price on some dacals. JFought gave me a price of $1 per decal. The other guy was at $3. I guess it's all in what your particular market is.

My ebay sales are 1/3 of what they used to be with all the competition..the only reason I still sell on ebay is to keep enough money in my Paypal so I can BUY stuff on ebay. I don't make my living on ebay anymore. Plus, I have about 20 regular customers who I first got through ebay who pay much higher than ebay prices because they understand that ebay is just a loss-leader for me...and they like my work and are willing to pay higher prices for the service I give them.

I tried raising my prices on ebay and guess what? Nobody was buying. And why should they when the next guy in the search is selling cheaper?

It's fine and dandy to say charge this or charge that but in the real world....I have bills to pay and I like to eat.

here is one of the vans....$10 in vinyl per van....1 hour per van labor. Charge $170.You do the math. And I gave them a special price because It's a good thing that they do.

post-242-0-86930600-1307938399_thumb.png

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while I'm at it..here's an example of my local work.That's a 3x10 and I get $125 for it. I give her a good deal because I do average 20 banners a season for her.And they are all that simple.

Next time you accuse me of giving 'phoney' advice, check your facts first. The OP wasn't asking about prices for cheap banners to sell on ebay. I gave advice on what I charge for similar work.

post-242-0-48703000-1307938917_thumb.png

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I have decided that an explanation is in order to set some people straight who THINK they know what they are talking about.

When I first started doing banners I was charging based on what the other local sign shops charged...$5 a square foot. I was knocking on doors, handing out fliers, going to festivals,fairs,etc...getting business anywhere I could. I was able to offer 3 day service while local shops were 2 weeks on average. I did well...until had a seizure while driving and ran through the back of a produce market (that cost me $9000). Then I had to find some way of selling that didn't require much driving, so I looked to sell on ebay. At the time there was one other person doing banners and I priced mine the same as his...thinking maybe people who were closer to me would buy from me because of the fast shipping. I had planned to gradually raise my prices,but guess what? The price of entry level cutters dropped by half and suddenly there were dozens of people selling on ebay...at the same low prices. So I just kept on selling and did well because of my high feedback. I was clearing about $1500 a month after expenses which was good money compared to what I had been making in my upholstery shop. This was in addition to my local sales...which lucky for me, they were willing to pick up. Then my mom got sick and I had to leave my shop and move up here to take care of her...and I kept selling on ebay because to ebay buyers, location change didn't matter. Gradually, I established enough local customers that ebay was just a way of keeping my paypal account to where I could buy stuff with it. Then came the heart attack and surgery....try running a full time business after that. But I kept at it..all the while watching after a mom with Alzheimers.

Ebay sales down from $2000 a month to $500..sometimes less. Everyone who could buy a printer was selling full color banners for what I was selling vinyl banners. Then the Chinese caught on and it kept getting worse. But like most people, I hated to give up my ebay because it was comfortable...and it got me new customers who were willing to pay more outside of ebay once they saw my work.

Now, i do maybe $300 a month on ebay.. mostly small stuff. My local and regular customers keep me in business..at much higher rates than I sold for on ebay. I concentrate on concession and carnival people...with a few real estate accounts.I charge 10% or so less than the locals because I don't have much overhead. And I turn down a lot of work because I just plain don't feel like working much anymore.

And that is the way it is...if anyone thinks they can sell on ebay at market price to where they are, they are delusional.

I could get dissablity right now and not have to work at all...but that would make me crazy real fast. I like to work..and if I am willing to work cheaper than some of you, that's up to me.I'll be in business until I decide to quit. And guess what? I've gotten some great deals from 2 local sign shops that went under thinking they could get the big bucks in a lousy market and lousy economy.

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John, I have no clue why these people are arguing and really don't care :blink: I just wanted to say "bless you" and I wish I had just a bit of your gumption, initiative, business sense and ambition! I hope you go on for many more happy years! :bear:

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I know what ebay become in the last few years, its hard to make living selling there, with all the fees and other bs..

My point is if I can as one man shop make living by selling stuff locally for "full" price why even bother to sell on ebay for nothing.

@John as I remember in one thread you have praised grommet press and said you have used few 500pcs bags of grommets in few month. Now you are saying you are using pre-grommeted banners.

See, stuff like that made me open my big mouth.

When I join this forum 3 years ago , you were regular member and your inputs were somewhat helpful .

Then, something changed , you become mod here and .....

Whoever mention something , you've been there done that.

I respect your age and life experience but sometimes its obvious its just a ranting .

@ rodger

I did call it phony and BS because I believe that s what it is.

Why would I ask As you said " how you make living charging $xxxxx per sqft when I know the prices and amount of work needed for this particular job.

Throwing rates as $25 $35 $50 per hour as advice to novice on the forum sound like someone who knows how to do it but there is another side of the medal (ebay link)

One more time, this is just my personal opinion and there is no reason to carry it on much longer.

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I know what ebay become in the last few years, its hard to make living selling there, with all the fees and other bs..

My point is if I can as one man shop make living by selling stuff locally for "full" price why even bother to sell on ebay for nothing.

@John as I remember in one thread you have praised grommet press and said you have used few 500pcs bags of grommets in few month. Now you are saying you are using pre-grommeted banners.

See, stuff like that made me open my big mouth.

When I join this forum 3 years ago , you were regular member and your inputs were somewhat helpful .

Then, something changed , you become mod here and .....

Whoever mention something , you've been there done that.

I respect your age and life experience but sometimes its obvious its just a ranting .

@ rodger

I did call it phony and BS because I believe that s what it is.

Why would I ask As you said " how you make living charging $xxxxx per sqft when I know the prices and amount of work needed for this particular job.

Throwing rates as $25 $35 $50 per hour as advice to novice on the forum sound like someone who knows how to do it but there is another side of the medal (ebay link)

One more time, this is just my personal opinion and there is no reason to carry it on much longer.

I'll let John respond to what you said to him .. ( shakes head slowly )

What you responded to me .....is a Prime example of the rational that is being used ... I said you should/could have asked " how do you make your hourly rate selling banners for $1.25 per square foot ? " .. so it would not be personal .

you just quoted me as saying " how you make living charging $xxxxx per sqft when I know the prices and amount of work needed for this particular job.

What you quoted is not what i posted & does not have the same meaning as what I ACTUALLY posted , does it ?

You DO NOT know what John pays for material . so the last part of what you quoted is based on assumption .

What John has said/posted in other threads does not make him saying his labor rate is $25 up ..... phoney or BS ... neither does that e-bay auction you linked .

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I can't stop typing ..... :)

Neron posted " @John as I remember in one thread you have praised grommet press and said you have used few 500pcs bags of grommets in few month. NOW you are saying you are using pre-grommeted banners.

See, stuff like that made me open my big mouth.

When I join this forum 3 years ago , you were regular member and your inputs were somewhat helpful .

Then, something changed , you become mod here and .....

Whoever mention something , you've been there done that.

I respect your age and life experience but sometimes its obvious its just a ranting ."

Trying to be as unbiased as possible , this is the way i look at what you posted ..

If somebody says they are pressing grommets in a pevious thread & as you say " NOW " using pre-grommeted banners . that does not mean the most recent post is " phoney " or " BS " it means thay changed what they buy or possibly buy banners both ways ..

As far as John changing when he became a mod , I liked it better when he was not a mod , he would be more honest & say how he felt instead of holding back in respect of being a USCutter official . John has been the most helpfull member on this forum if you go from the beginning to now .. He has not been as active recently . part of that reason IMO is the comraderie has been lacking ( like your response ) his health & the amount of bullshit that is allowed on this forum ... more heads need to roll IMO :) Break the forum rules , get warned.. keep blatantly breaking them & or not heeding warnings & that member needs to go find a new place to play . heavy d coming over here & starting crap seems to be a big factor in this discussion .

As far as John " been there , done that " thingy .. that is just the way it is , i also have been there & done that in most areas . giving a realistic perspective honestly at that time also does not mean that perspective can never be adjusted or changed . Intelligence should prevail & when new things are learned , perspectives should change .

Neron , i have always considered you a good memeber , but you went personal in this thread . I suggest reading what is said as you have responded to many things not said in this thread . respect others right to have their own opinion & perspectives about anything & their right to say what they want . Searching for prices is no secret , everybody does that .

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I know what ebay become in the last few years, its hard to make living selling there, with all the fees and other bs..

My point is if I can as one man shop make living by selling stuff locally for "full" price why even bother to sell on ebay for nothing.

@John as I remember in one thread you have praised grommet press and said you have used few 500pcs bags of grommets in few month. Now you are saying you are using pre-grommeted banners.

See, stuff like that made me open my big mouth.

Ok, I am happy to see that you take such an interest in everything I say so once again I will explain to you something that you assume that is not correct.

I do a LOT of menu signs in coroplast for concession people. One sign,one item...8x18 inches. Each sign requires a grommet in each corner. That's 4 grommets per sign. It is not unusual for me to do 10-15 signs per order. That's a lot of grommets. The grommets are so they can hang their menu items one above the other....in the concession business you often offer different items at different set-ups,depending on what you are allowed to sell at any particular show. A I said before, I concentrate my business on concession people.

In addition to that, I also do a lot of odd-sized banners,which means I have to cut banners that are pre-grommeted down,and re-hem(and grommet) the unfinished edges.This also requires grommets. Unlike you, I do production work....Its not unusual for me to cut an entire 50 yard roll of vinyl in a single day...or use 500 grommets in a month. Coroplast is fast and easy..and the profit is high. I can do 12 menu signs in an hour (easily) and clear $40. Remember,before you comment again, that these are 8x18 inches...ONE word per sign ..such as FRIES or CORNDOGS...

See..when you assume something,sometimes you assume wrong.

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John, I have no clue why these people are arguing and really don't care :blink: I just wanted to say "bless you" and I wish I had just a bit of your gumption, initiative, business sense and ambition! I hope you go on for many more happy years! :bear:

I have no idea why people who SAY they are charging the big prices,and getting them..and doing well,should give a rat's ass about what other people charge. IF they are getting the prices they ask..why should they care?

Of course I could just buy a printer and change my signature from 'signmaker' to 'printer' snd sit and watch the printer do the real work.

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Rodger,

speaking of type of the banner material (pre-made or one which needs to be hemmed and grommeted) .

If some one says thet he used 1500pcs in 3 month and that is a loooooooooot s of banners and later says hes using premade banners I recognized it as BS.

I was surprised John mentioned using grommets as I know he is been buying pre grommeted blanks (he even shared his source here)

As far as pricing goes I DO NOT have any intentions of schooling anyone how to run their life or business.

Im just expressing my PERSONAL opinion.

As far as heads rolling , that is something everyone of us should think about for himself.

I do appreciate you have consider me as good member of this great place.

.I suggest to stop it right here before its to late.

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So . let's consider your point .. John has USED 1500 grommets in 3 months ... what does that have to do with what he does the next 3 months ? He posted he buys pre-grommeted banners . that does not mean he does not still use alot of grommets , does it ??

I appreciate the suggestion , but I have never stopped anything , even when I should have in retrospect . I know i don't need to stop in this matter !!! I speak my mind , but try not to get persoonal . You did get personal with John .... & have continued to do so .. you are stretching posts to make a WEAK case & the only thing it seems you are trying to prove is John Is " Phoney " & posts " BS " . You should heed your own suggestion IMO !!!

neron posts " Im just expressing my PERSONAL opinion. " ... you have made PERSONAL remarks about John that NOBODY would take as positive & are against forum rules ....

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Rodger,

speaking of type of the banner material (pre-made or one which needs to be hemmed and grommeted) .

If some one says thet he used 1500pcs in 3 month and that is a loooooooooot s of banners and later says hes using premade banners I recognized it as BS.

I was surprised John mentioned using grommets as I know he is been buying pre grommeted blanks (he even shared his source here)

As far as pricing goes I DO NOT have any intentions of schooling anyone how to run their life or business.

Im just expressing my PERSONAL opinion.

As far as heads rolling , that is something everyone of us should think about for himself.

I do appreciate you have consider me as good member of this great place.

.I suggest to stop it right here before its to late.

IF you will read my previous post on the coroplast, you will see what I use all those grommets on. And since I have been asked to end it here..end it here I will.

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