Need help wiith business quiestion

[Guest jnbcea]

I was asked to makeup a design for someone for her to sell them online along with wood that she sells.  She gave me the words she wanted to use and the size.  This is not something that is particular to her business just a bunch of words arranged in a pattern. She then takes the vinyl decal or sign that i sell her,  and sells them as a kit including the vinyl and wood online. 

Well what I did, is nothing that anyone else couldn't design, but it did take me several hours to design.  So now, people are emailing her asking her for the file of the vinyl design, so that they don't need to spend the time to "recreate" it. Some of the people are not cutting vinyl, but instead printing the design off in a word program to use as a brochure or binder cover.  She's asked me before for it and told me it's not that big of a deal to give away free stuff.  Especially if they are not using it to cut vinyl.

The problem I have, is that I sell this design online also. I'm wondering how everyone handles "cusotmers" when they ask for your files.  Do you sell them, and what about my friend? Even though I created this for her, is it now her design to give out and giveaway to whomever asks for it.

To me, she should not even be talking to these people about it, rather directing them to me to ask for the file.  And if I want to give it to them, I will.  I do the vinyl and she does the wood. 

What is your opinion, or how do you handle selling or giving your work away. 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

if you decide to give it to her make it a low resolution RASTER format only big enough for the purpose they are claiming they need it for.  my bet is they want to sell it themselves and either don't want to do it themselves or don't have the skills to do it and don't want to pay to have it done.

[Spyder Graphix 0]

I would either do a low res with a nice water mark that say "To order this design call:xxx-xxx" If she wants to buy the design from you and then give it out i really dont think you can stop her.

You say that your selling the design also.So does that mean that your selling something that you created for another customer? That does not sound to good to me. But I dont know all the parts to the deal you have or what it all is.

[Guest jnbcea]

She asked me to create this desgin for her.  She sells the vinyl and wood as a kit online.  I have an online site also, that I sell vinyl only, not just this, all my designs I do. But I sell them cut and ready to use, not as files.

The design I made for her is not something that represnts her or her business, it was just an idea she had.  So yes I am selling it also, just the vinyl... not the wood like she is.

Am I not right to sell the design also? Than's where I am confused/worried.  I think, she thinks this is her design and I have no right to sell it (on my site)  or give it out. Is it ?? But in my opinion, I spent the time to create it. If others want it, I should be able to make the decision to give it out or sell it, but she is making that decision, and it's just rubbing me the wrong way.

I guess I really need an opinion on how to treat artwork. Some people think its not that big of a deal, but when you put 3-4 hours reacreating somehting, it's hard to just give it out for free, or not claim ownership.

I am new to all this, not new to business, but this is different than anything I've done before.  And of course, mixing it with friends is not a good idea. 

[stetson5331 80]

I do designs everyday that people think are theirs because they asked me to design it.. I treat everyone the same...I create it, which inturn I own the actual design because I designed it..It's kinda like a photographer, it may be you in the picture but you can not reprint it without conscent of the photographer...Go to Sears and tell them you want your picture taken and you want to go to Walgreens to have the extra prints done..see what they tell ya...

The designer owns the artwork UNLESS you had the agreement that the one your designing it for paid you to design it for them with all rights granted for reproduction at will...

I NEVER design anything with a complete release without getting paid what it's worth...My time and my sweat goes into it...If she wants to give it away or sell it at will, charge for the design and then remove it from your web site...Untill then JUST SAY NO unless they want to purchase it...Once you let it out it will be viral on reproduction..

Just my 2 cents...Get paid for your designs...

stetson5331

[Guest jnbcea]

Thank you stetson5331.  That's how I feel, but I needed to hear others perspective on this.

Anyone else have 2 cents they want to share?

[signme 1]

This is a sticky subject. I also feel I own what I design. I read in a trade mag. that if you have charged for the design time the customer owns the design, unless specified in writing and signed by customer. Around here it is next to impossible to charge for all of your design time, so you are usually only getting half of what it is worth. So who does it really belong to?

[Conquestgraphics 4]

Question: Copyright for Graphic Designers - Who Owns the Copyright to a Graphic Work?

Answer:

Unless otherwise specified in a contract, the graphic designer retains the right to his or her creations, and should always attempt to do so. When designing a work for a client, you are also selling specific rights to use it. Copyright laws protect against additional use without proper compensation or agreement.

For example: You design a logo for use on a specific product package for a cosmetics company. The company likes it so much that they decide to extend its use across their entire product line. You should be paid for this additional use, as it increases the value of the graphic work you created. For this reason, be sure to include in your contracts what the work can and cannot be used for.

definition:

Work-for-hire refers to the situations in which a creator of a work does not retain the rights to that work. By default, and artist or designer owns the copyright to his or her work. Work-for-hire includes two exceptions to that rule:

1. The creator of the work is an employee of a company, and the work falls within the scope of his or her employment. In this case, the employer owns the copyright.

2. A specially commissioned work is created for an independent contractor, and falls under one of the nine categories of work specified by law:

  1. Contribution to a larger work, such as a magazine

  2. A part of a motion picture or audiovisual work

  3. A compilation of existing works

  4. Instructional texts or graphic works

  5. A translation of an existing work

  6. A test

  7. Answers for a test

  8. Supplementary works, such as a graph for a book

  9. An atlas

Designers, artists and other creators should always be careful and consult a lawyer when dealing with work-for-hire, as it is often abused.

Sources:

[stetson5331 80]

Question: Copyright for Graphic Designers - Who Owns the Copyright to a Graphic Work?

Answer:

Unless otherwise specified in a contract, the graphic designer retains the right to his or her creations, and should always attempt to do so. When designing a work for a client, you are also selling specific rights to use it. Copyright laws protect against additional use without proper compensation or agreement.

For example: You design a logo for use on a specific product package for a cosmetics company. The company likes it so much that they decide to extend its use across their entire product line. You should be paid for this additional use, as it increases the value of the graphic work you created. For this reason, be sure to include in your contracts what the work can and cannot be used for.

definition:

Work-for-hire refers to the situations in which a creator of a work does not retain the rights to that work. By default, and artist or designer owns the copyright to his or her work. Work-for-hire includes two exceptions to that rule:

1. The creator of the work is an employee of a company, and the work falls within the scope of his or her employment. In this case, the employer owns the copyright.

2. A specially commissioned work is created for an independent contractor, and falls under one of the nine categories of work specified by law:

  1. Contribution to a larger work, such as a magazine

  2. A part of a motion picture or audiovisual work

  3. A compilation of existing works

  4. Instructional texts or graphic works

  5. A translation of an existing work

  6. A test

  7. Answers for a test

  8. Supplementary works, such as a graph for a book

  9. An atlas

Designers, artists and other creators should always be careful and consult a lawyer when dealing with work-for-hire, as it is often abused.

Sources:

[Guest jnbcea]

This is a really good clarification as far a legally who owns what.  She did not pay me for my time, nor the design. So therefore according to the previous post, I own this design and the rights to it.  I do not feel like she has any ownership to this, and I can give it out, or sell it at will.

Thank you all for this.....now I just need help telling my friend to stop giving it out to who ever she wants to, without losing a friend. Wish me luck!

[NiteWalker 10]

Just politely explain what has been said in this thread to her. If she understands, she is a good fiend. Otherwise, one less name on the christmas card list.

In fact, print up Conquestgraphics' post about who owns what. Offer her to buy the design if she wants to give it away that badly. We'll see if she still wants to give it away for free after paying for the design.