The END of vinyl signmaking may be in sight.

[slopchops 1]

Over the years I have seen modest price increases and nothing ever affected the sign business until the mid eighties.

Then the oil companies AND the real estate industry was in trouble. Also the collapse of most savings and loan companies.

Sign companies folded like yesterdays newspapers.

After visiting my local paint/wood supplier lately, I was astounded that prices have doubled and tripled on most products we use.

I can only predict this, vinyl is made from oil related products, soybeans or from crude, I am not sure, maybe both.

I tell you now if this vinyl hasn't risen in your area, get ready, it is fixing to explode in price.

For the ones with no insight to the future, this may be your business death warrant.

But for the ones who are serious about surviving, don't forget by taking the blade out and adding a pen you can still make wonderful layouts, invest in some good brushes, one shot paint which is going up also and learn the art of brush lettering.

Learn how to perforate patterns, transfer them with powder's and use them.

When I first got a vinyl computer rig it was fun and I used it on everything.

As I grew older and wiser I knew that I could paint a 4' x 8' sign faster by hand  and MUCH cheaper than I could do verses vinyl.

Something to think about folks.

Take it from a old stroker who's been on both sides of the fence.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Considering the Mark-up that most sign shops around here charge, I don't think there will be a problem. Instead of $10 worth of vinyl for a $150 banner...it will be $20.

In my case, I have a good stock and seldom use more than $3 in vinyl on a 6 foot banner.

[slopchops 1]

Considering the Mark-up that most sign shops around here charge, I don't think there will be a problem. Instead of $10 worth of vinyl for a $150 banner...it will be $20.

In my case, I have a good stock and seldom use more than $3 in vinyl on a 6 foot banner.

John are you forgetting transfer tape cost which is almost as expensive as vinyl. Then you have the raise in cost in banner material plus the increase in shipping. Some places are already raising their sales tax. And if you are renting a building, expect a rent increase.

The signs of the time are here and I don't mean the magazine.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

I'm not worried. The one thing people want when times get hard is to increase their sales and signs do it. I'm busier now that I ever have been. I would say my sales have increased 25% in the last 3 months. The worse things get, the better it seems to get for me.

[nonabelle 5]

u know some people used to tell me girl, u ought to get a store front, now i'm glad i stuck to me guns and didn't do it. i have two girl freinds who has to close shop because they can't afford the rent because people r not buyings as much and their landlords keep inching the rent. one told me the other day, i wish i had listened to u, and had me a shop built in the back of my house too. i feel really bad for them,

but i learned a lot from working with a guy who had his business at home. a lot of people in his area has the same thing, such as lawyers, dentist, doctors, they work from home. i used to managed two of the offices and these people had money and the clientel they could have occupied any building they wanted. but opted not to. i said that to say this, when it gets slow, i really don't worry much because i will get by because i don't have the added expenses of retail space.

[rebjr 0]

Slopchops, I couldn't agree with you more. Our entire society is dependent on petroleum based products, it is not just the cost of gasoline or diesel or motor oil. It is virtually everything that we see, feel, eat and on and on and on. Petroleum is also the raw material for many chemical products, including pharmaceuticals, solvents, fertilizers, pesticides, and plastics. On top of that 40% of our energy needs are supplied by petroleum. And, it's non-renewable.

The sad thing about the issue is that it is not a shortage of petroleum that has raised the prices. It is not OPEC, the war, or anything except pure greed. The "enron loophole", "foreign markets loopholes", and similar flaws in our legal/political system allow investment bankers and others (insurance companies, etc.) to use loopholes in commodities law to manipulate the market and drive crude oil, heating oil, gasoline and diesel fuel  prices to the high prices we are now burdened with.

Nonabelle, I know more than a few businesses here who suffered the same fate. The worst part of is that a lot of the buildings here who small businesses vacated still sit unrented. Those wealthy landowners who are in the right bracket can profit more thru tax breaks/write offs/etc., by letting the building sit rather than having it occupied.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing, but without some control and enforcement it could very well lead to it's own demise.

Bob

[RegisG 0]

Good discussion.  I sure agree with most of the points. 

QUOTE: "Capitalism is a wonderful thing, but without some control and enforcement it could very well lead to it's own demise."

Only problem is that capitalism has been and is being strangled by government.  We should have long ago begun more drilling, more refineries, and more incentives for alternate (non food competing) fuels.  Government control has interfered.  Politicians love these kinds of problems that keep growing THEIR power over the needs of people.  If the politicians just monitored to protect inocent from any safety or cleanliness they would serve people rather than trying to control/strangle business and grow their power.

my 2c

Regis

[swaneejuggalo 0]

You guys have all touched on great points one thing that worry's me is the lack of concern among people with the way shit is going it seems like nothing is happening but i guess its been the same feeling amongst everyone for years while china has been buying up our major corps and old debts and holding us hostage with them

which goes back to the clinton administration and everything was so great back then right?For the first time in my life i've seen the dollar drop below the canadian whats wrong with that picture i could go on for awhile but i won't

get ready for the ILLUMINATi we should have been ready long ago

look at MK ultra

[Guest fivestar]

I don't know, but I am like John.  I'm busier now then I have ever been.  I honestly can't keep up.  I've got so much work right now, granted most of mine are t-shirts.  We own our building and I have my shop above our flower shop, so rent is no problem for me.   

My local supplier has not raised anything yet except for delivery fee and it only went up a dollar, so as of now, I'm alright.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Good discussion.  I sure agree with most of the points. 

QUOTE: "Capitalism is a wonderful thing, but without some control and enforcement it could very well lead to it's own demise."

Only problem is that capitalism has been and is being strangled by government.  We should have long ago begun more drilling, more refineries, and more incentives for alternate (non food competing) fuels.   Government control has interfered.   Politicians love these kinds of problems that keep growing THEIR power over the needs of people.   If the politicians just monitored to protect inocent from any safety or cleanliness they would serve people rather than trying to control/strangle business and grow their power.

my 2c

Regis

I must take exception to one point : the 'non-food competing' part. Millions of acres in this country lie fallow...unfarmed,because govbernment subsidies paid to farmers NOT to plant certain types of crops in order to keep prices up. There is plenty of land and plenty of farmers to grow all the food we need,as well as enough corn and other crops that can be converted into fuel.

There is no shortage of food in this country and never will be. Grain is rotting in government warehouses and silos...food for rats.

WE need to re-think how we look at things. HUGE corperate farms get paid millions by the government, while making huge profits. Why? So they can make MORE money for LESS. The small farmer..the family farms, have to struggle to compete.

The answer to our problems is staring us in the face but the idiots in charge only look at the short term effects,not the long term.

FYI the Diesel engine was designed to run on vegitable oil. It's first public demonstration used peanut oil.

[slopchops 1]

Tell what else can shut us down.

http://www.naftasuperhighway.info

[RegisG 0]

QUOTE: "Millions of acres in this country lie fallow...unfarmed,because govbernment subsidies paid to farmers NOT to plant certain types of crops in order to keep prices up"

.....GREAT point!  ......Government, "get out of the way of business"

Regis

[rebjr 0]

what worry's me is the lack of concern

The 8 most important words in this thread.

Bob

[Guest fivestar]

what worry's me is the lack of concern

The 8 most important words in this thread.

Bob

These are the 8 most important words to me.

My local supplier has not raised anything yet

[JoeCamaro 11]

LOL five, u crazy!

[rebjr 0]

BannerJohn sez:

"FYI the Diesel engine was designed to run on vegitable oil. It's first public demonstration used peanut oil."

Me responds:

Right, and wrong BannerJ. The first diesels used a complex injector and were designed to run on many different fuels, from kerosene to coal dust. The diesel was designed to be a replacement for the steam engine which was energy intense, cumbersome and hazardous. The French commissioned Otto to build one that would run on peanut oil for use in their African Colonies where vegetables were the largest resource. They demonstrated it at the 1900 World's Fair. However, it was only after that when Rudolph Diesel became interested in pursuing the concept and he did extensive work on the idea but it never really took hold until recently.

A dozen or so years after the demonstration of 1900 petroleum fuels became widely available. As it was readily available, needed almost no refining (I've seen folks put raw fuel straight from the offshore wells along the Fouchon in their diesel vehicles when I was working the oilfields), the diesel was redesigned to operate on diesel fuel. This advanced the engine into a much more powerful and efficient source.

Some may find it interesting to note that of all fuel alternatives that could be used in the diesel hemp seed oil is by far the leader of the pack. And, like petroleum the hemp plant has a very wide and economical platform. There may be those who are wearing or who have decorated hemp t-shirts. But, the use goes well beyond that. George Washington made himself wealthy growing hemp and selling it the the government as rope, which it continued to be used by our government thru WWII. And I'll bet some here thought all you did with it was smoke it .. LOL.

Regis sez:"

"capitalism has been and is being strangled by government" <SNIP> "We should have long ago begun more drilling" <SNIP> " Politicians love these kinds of problems that keep growing THEIR power over the needs of people"

Small business is strangled, but not big business. Follow the money and the answers are clear. Again, Regis it is not a shortage that has/is causing the increases in petroleum, drilling more wells is not the answer. I will give you a point on refineries, we have far too few and what we have has been out of date. Research the enron loophole and foriegn market loopholes in reference to the oil "crisis" and you'll find some astonishing answers. We have plenty of petroleum and natural gas, shortage is not the problem. Also, research the Alaska pipeline and you will find some more good information.

The blame does not rest with politicians. The blame rests with 1) the lobbyists who represent the rich and powerful and 2) those among us who form large groups of voters to fight against drilling off California because it will ruin the scenery and the Alaska wild life preserves because it will hurt the animals. These two groups combined have the financial clout to buy what they want done and strike fear into the elected officials who want to stay in office. To that extent politicians are to blame. Graft and fear rules the day for many. However, it remains that the laws of this great nation are made by appointed, not elected officials. And, unlike our elected officials the appointed lawmakers cannot be voted out of office.

The only laws that get enforced benefit the rich and powerful or those who do not represent the majority.

As for the shrinking dollar that someone mentioned, our devaluing the dollar so that we can pay our debts is responsible. That same action signaled the beginning of the collapse of more than one nation.

Bob

[Knobhill 0]

What next? We need a major priority change and fast!!! My8

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Rudolf Diesel invented the diesel engine and applied for a patent in 1893, which was ganted in 1898...by which time he was already a millionaire from the sales of his engine. I don't know what happened at the 1900 world's fair.

The hemp plant that is used for rope is not the same  as the hemp plant that you smoke. The one used for rope contains no THC, the ingredient in the other hemp plant that makes you high.

[RegisG 0]

QUOTE Bob: "The blame does not rest with politicians. The blame rests with 1) the lobbyists who represent the rich and powerful and 2) those among us who form large groups of voters to fight against drilling off California because it will ruin the scenery and the Alaska wild life preserves because it will hurt the animals. These two groups combined have the financial clout to buy what they want done and strike fear into the elected officials who want to stay in office."

As I said, politicians.  These people buy or scare politicians who grow in power (and WEALTH).  Those crying for "change" better vote OUT every incumbent elected official.  That would cure a LOT of problems in 2 or 3 election cycles (...including oil). 

[BannerJohn 1,324]

the solution:

1. all political offices should be ONE TERM only.

2. Every elected official, bottom to the top, should be rquired to live on the average mean income in America. NO free haircuts,no free lunch, no free mailing priviledges,etc.

3. Lobbying should be illegal,period.

4. No politician should be allowed to accept a donation from ANY company,organization,etc.

5. Attaching bills (hiding them,actually) onto other bills that are popular and nobody would dare vot against...should be illegal.

6. Every politician,top to bottom,should be held accountable for every single thing he/she does. IN other words...if some politician propsses a law that says you no longer have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle (just an example) and your kid is in an accident and dies because he isn't wearing a helmet...you should be able to SUE that politician and everyone who voted for the bill. To illustrate this point...everyone with any sense knows that wearing a helmet is a good thing. Several states have rescinded such laws...why? Bowing to pressure from lobbying efforts of motorcycle clubs. A few individuals influencing what is good or bad for all.

before I hear from you motorcycle riders out there who don't wear helmets.. when I was with the Rescue Squad...MORE THAN ONCE I watched while a man's brains were removed from the street with a shovel. I know what riding without a helmet can do.

[RegisG 0]

BannerJohn,

I agree ALL 6 + points.

I want to vote for YOU.    I would absolutly vote for anyone at any level and any party (or none) running on that platform!!!

Regis

[BannerJohn 1,324]

go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3_EwUERW1U&feature=related

to see how Lewis Black thinks the next President should be chosen.

Warning...a few dirty words.

[slopchops 1]

I was watching the pick of Presidential candidates selection very carefully this year and I have concluded that the election process is nothing but a sham.

TV covered the candidates but gave the lions share of the coverage to the ones THEY wanted to get in. That and with those phony polls that the news media place for the gullible to swill down was nothing more than a brain washing scenario.

I was completely disgusted to see more qualified candidates get virtually snubbed by the news media which is CONTROLLED by the rich and powerful.

Apathy is killing this country.

This was confirmed when John McCain had already squandered all his campaign money with mismanagement, cosponsored a amnesty Dream act with Ted Kennedy, Bush and others to further give away our country.

He was in last place with the Republican runners and went to first place? No sir, unless it was fixed.

The Democratic party is filled with Socialist/Communists and rub shoulders with Communist China.

We can't vote the swine out and we're losing.

[rebjr 0]

Regis say:

"As I said, politicians.  These people buy or scare politicians who grow in power (and WEALTH).  Those crying for "change" better vote OUT every incumbent elected official.  That would cure a LOT of problems in 2 or 3 election cycles (...including oil)."

My reply:

Again Regis, politicians are not really the problem, the lawmakers are. We can vote out every incumbent and it won't change anything except for a short time. Our problem is one that needs to be changed for the long run.

I agree with BannerJohn that we need to make lobbying illegal. As well pork barreling should be made illegal. That would do wonders for shaping up our system. The courts need to be completely renovated, starting with the Supreme Court. No more lifetime appointments, make them elected positions.

But all of that done we need to do one other major thing. As a citizenry we must stand up for ourselves. We must rid ourselves of the stigma that many call "American guilt", and more specifically "White American guilt". The result of this "guilt" is that we stand up for the underdog, we save the whaless, we plant trees, but we march and protest as a minority of the nation against many things. As a majority we sit back and, apathetically, just let things happen. Fat, dumb, and happy.

[cutme 5]

"Fat, dumb, and happy." thats what my mom called her last business partner, she really hit the nail on the head with that one too. 

bb