levy4u

Cutting X+ Direction Uneven - CE7000-60

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Purchased a CE7000-60 sept 2020 and contour cut a lot of 651 no problem.

I use the blue holder with 60 degree blade, set depth the appropriate method of slowly lengthening the blade until it barely cuts into the backing by hand. Then putting into tool position 1 and using force until it's the same.

I've recently tried perf cutting some printed window decals(3M IJ35C) and it will not cut the same depth while feeding -X (towards the front), cutting +X direction. 

Imagine cutting a rectangle with the long sides being vertical...

So the short ends, Y (left and right) cuts are perf cut perfect, just enough backing left to hold shape, but easy enough to pop out.

Cutting -X (media is feeding out the back) is near perfect. In this case the left side of the rectangle is cut this way.

Cutting +X (media is feeding towards you/front) is where the problem is. Right side of the rectangle. Accuracy is perfect, cuts exactly where it should, but the depth is off probably about 25% of the -X direction.

Basically if I adjust the force so the left side of the rectangle correctly perf cuts, the right side is only a contour cut and the decals cannot pop out since only 3/4 sides are actually cut through.

I did initially try using my blue blade holder setup but didn't want to adjust it for perf cutting so I can have 2 separate tools to swap in and out (contour then perf).

With the Red blade holder, I tried setting it up the traditional way of cutting into the backing by hand, but could never get the machine force to perf cut. So i took it out and did the hand depth adjustment but this time adjusted the blade length to completely cut out a shape by hand, then put it back in the graphtec and used cut tests to match.

Here is what I am currently using for perf cut settings:

Brass Red Blade Holder
Clean Cut CB15U 60 Degree Blade
Tool Position 3
Acceleration 3

Force 14 (cuts completely through all sides, no "hanging chads", no structure left, media feeding fails)
Force 13 (cuts completely through all sides but barely hanging on, no structure left, media feeding fails)
Force 12 (cuts completely through Y and -X direction, +X direction takes force to pop off, , no structure left on -X, media feeding fails)
Force 11 (just barely making it through Y and -X, too deep contour cutting +X side, media feeding fine)
Force 10 (contour cutting all sides, media feeding fine)

Cut Length 0.500"
UP Length 0.010"
UP Mode F 10

Anything shorter blade depth wise, no matter what force I use, it never cuts through completely. Always in tool position 3 for perf cuts (for this project).

EDIT: I tried cutting out some random shapes on a few sheets that were ruined, and anything cutting straight up (media feeding towards the front) or anything cutting up and to the right, were noticeably harder to remove the perf cut. In most cases not releasing at all while all other directions basically fall right out. Overall I need to lower the force as it's way too hard 75% of the time, but I need it as high to even get the problem side to a point were i can remove it without having to manually cut.

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That is way too much blade sticking out for any type of cutting.  You shouldn't even be able to see or feel the blade tip.   When the blade is so far in the blade holder that you think it would not cut anything,  it is probably correct.  Then use the force of the machine, to cut.   Blade sticking out like that just makes the blade skip over and not cut. 

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2 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

That is way too much blade sticking out for any type of cutting.  You shouldn't even be able to see or feel the blade tip.   When the blade is so far in the blade holder that you think it would not cut anything,  it is probably correct.  Then use the force of the machine, to cut.   Blade sticking out like that just makes the blade skip over and not cut. 

Even for perf cutting? I've spent the last 3 hours searching this forum and saw your reply about length sooo many times but figured it would have to be longer to go all the way through.. I'll try resetting the length again but I did this already and force was up to 25, not cutting through and figured the length would need to be increased as clean cut blades shouldn't need this high of a force.

Let me do some tests and get back to you before using more of your valuable time.

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you should not even need that kind of force with a Clean Cut blade. Look at the blade tip. Maybe it got broken off.  Those tips will break very easily.  You start with 1/2 the force of a regular blade. 

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On this thread is a picture of a broken Clean Cut blade, scroll down. You may need a loupe to see your blade tip.  This person was breaking the tips off,  doing test cuts. 

 

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This is a cut force of 9. Test cuts remove cleanly, barely scoring backing.

This blade length (see photo) is going to completely cut through the media for perf cutting?

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Get a 2nd blade holder, and adjust it so it stays the same, for perf cutting.  You don't have to keep adjusting the blade depth. Pop it in for perf cutting. The wax paper backing is only a few mils deeper.     I cut Avery chrome, when is tougher, thicker , polyester vinyl. than Oracal 651.  I never change my blade depth.  I just up the force and I can cut it at .025 high fonts.   It is thicker than what you are doing. 

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I bought this holder specifically for perf cutting. My main question is does the traditional blade depth setting by hand, still account for Perf cutting (just with a much higher force on the machine)? Or should I be able to "hand perf cut" with the tool before placing it in the machine?

Loupe shows about 4 lines and tip looks good i believe.

IMG_8942.jpg

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Why do you need a different blade holder to perf cut?   My FC 8000 uses the same blade holder with the same blade as regular sign vinyl.  It's just a bigger cutter. Just change the position of the blade holder, i the carriage arm.   People use the same blade holder for perf cut for the Ce6000-60 as sign vinyl.   Good luck, I have orders to do. 

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I use the blue holder for contour cutting, no issue.

I bought the red one for perf cutting, to use 60 degree blades and keep the length a little longer to get through the material (my thinking at the time).

I understand I could use the same holder and blade, but the contour cut blade length of the blue or red holder  can never have enough force to perf cut. This is where the red one comes in play, i can keep the blade length longer and switch to it when i want to perf cut.

This is my issue, should the contour cut setting/blade length etc, be what I use for perf cutting (except a much higher force)?

These last few photos I sent, contour cut at 9 force, would not perf cut 10-38 force. Solution is to increase blade length right? 

What force should be perf cutting? 15? 20? I have no frame of reference since I guess i've never had perf cutting correct.

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Not really. They are setting up the different cut conditions. 

I can contour cut with no issues. The idea is you change the tool position and up the force to perf cut. If I can't perf cut with any amount of force, the blade length is too short? No?

So I back off the force, increase the blade depth slightly and do test cuts (square with triangle).

Ended up with Contour force of 10 and  perf cut force of 15ish.

These decals I'm perf cutting only, final shape right away and it either:

 - completely cuts through the entire border, messing up on media feed

- only perf cuts one side and contour cuts the other

- contour cuts it all

 

Video shows what happens when I set blade length by testing off the cutter then matching the result by using the appropriate force settings. Most of the decals just falls out while a whole side is completely attached. Which is my 1st post issue/explanation. I tried different blade lengths, optimal and extended, and the cuts are not the same depending on cut direction.

IMG_8943.MOV

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Reading other forums.. I think maybe it's the fact that you have those decals side by side without any gap between them.  This is a guy perf cutting

"I print them with a contour cut and a perf cut, but I leave about 1/4" between the perf cuts in each direction. I also do a rectangle contour cut around the entire field of stickers. I do my contour cuts first (including the big rectangle around all the stickers), then the cut pauses and I peel off the matrix (the unused material between the stickers). This does two things -- first it allows me to use much less pressure for my perf cuts (since the blade only has to cut the backer, and not the vinyl also), and it also gives me a sticker with a border of just backer, which makes peeling the sticker from the backer easier. I do my perf cuts with about 1 to 1-1/2" of cut, and about 0.10 to 0.15 of lift between the perf cuts. This keeps the stickers attached to the media until the perf cut is finished, and then it's a simple matter to break them away while the media is still loaded on the cutter."

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I thought of that too so I tried just sending one rectangle to get cut, same result. Entire right side, straight cut while media is feeding toward me, doesn't go deeper than a contour cut while all the other sides are perf cut. :/

There currently is .25 between all cuts, maybe it needs to be more. But it does seem that there is a cutting force/depth difference on cuts when the media is feeding toward you/the front.

Sent a support email through Graphtec website... we will see.

Appreciate the help, will report back with any resolution. 

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You are perf cutting over the channel, correct?   Also pinch rollers snug? 

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Yes, looks good and I'm using tool position 3, which is over the perf cutting channel so this is a nonissue right? Plus it's happening on the same spots across the vinyl, far left or far right, or middle.

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Is the pinch rollers causing you any problems.  Did you contact Graphtec to get that plastic piece?  They changed the style of grit rollers and they are not feeding the same as the older Graphtecs.  There is a plastic piece you have to contact Graphtec to get. 

scroll down this thread. Dakota noticed this.  Even though he got the plastic piece, he was not satisfied how it cut, and sent his back and got a FC9000.

 

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It does tend to bunch the media while rolling yes. Don't have that plastic piece, emailed them as well.

I have a ce6000-60 in storage but the whole reason for the 7000 was the perf cutting channel. Going to try using the blue holder with a 45 blade and see if maybe the red holder is malfunctioning somehow.

My normal cut job is a 6' x 2' printed sheet with many bumper stickers and i have been only contour cutting then trimming with a slice cutter because of this issue. Once it messes up perf cutting, i can never register it accurately and am screwed.

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Two more samples to explain my issue for anyone that reads this, and for future debugging...

Both of these rectangles were set to perf cut at a force where the right side would release. The right side is being cut as the media is feeding toward the front of the machine. The blade sharp edge would be facing away from you if you were in front of the machine.

The black letters rectangle had the force 1 less than the pink letters cut. It stayed connected to the media while cutting. Look at how jagged the right side is, this is just the backing paper but I want a clean cut all the way around.

The pink letters rectangle was 1 force higher to not have the backing paper residual when removing, but these settings just about had it fall out while cutting. I also noted, if you look close on the right side, the cut has "ripple" marks all the way along the cut line. I tried to have the light catch these ripples. Look near the pink letter S that's cut off, by the backing paper fuzz. This effect isn't there on any other cuts. Only when cutting straight backwards (media feeding toward front).

Don't know if this helps anything. But if this issue ever has a final conclusion, maybe it will help someone in the future.

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Another thing. The blade holder collar lock looks to be angling the blade holder once tightened. I can easily fit vinyl under the front side of the collar, the back is tight.

So the tool is being pushed back at the top, angling the blade up slightly towards the front. Maybe the angle is there to cut toward the front, but isn't good cutting away....going to try and get the tool to tighten flat somehow.

 

EDIT: Added photos where I matched up photos of the holder loose and tight and how it changed the blade angle.

 

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Loose.jpg

tight.jpg

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Are you going into the Cut  Line Pattern and changing it?  This guy is not even doing the contour cut.  Just a perf cut. Start  around 9:43.  This guy is using an FC cutter, but it should still be the same , just a bigger cutter.  Plus he is using laminate. 

 

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Pretty sure I've watched every single video on the internet about this now. Spent all day trying to get it adjusted, new blades, different holders, different blade depths set by the hand scoring method, using the magnifier gauge. The only thing that's different from the videos I've watched is the tool holder has always been plastic, and i'm using brass. I don't have a 60 degree plastic red holder.

At this point i'm certain there is an issue with the cutter one way or another. I'm going to have to scissor finish everything now.

These photos show what has been happening all day. 3 sides pretty clean, 1 side absolute s***. The 3 i set aside show the decal after I scissor finish.

 If I set the force any higher, 3 sides get completely cut out then the media feeding fails. If i set it any lower, then it becomes a contour cut only. If i set the up length to be longer, or shorten the cut length, there are a ton of nubs left over.

Next order i'm going to try having all the designs be at 45 degrees to the media and see if that helps. Don't think it has been brought up but i'm using illustrator 2020 and sending it to CM4. Windows 10.

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Didn't you get the license code for  Graphtec Pro Studio, so you could activate it?  It is FlexisignPro without the RIP.  Over a $1000 software.   Better than any other Graphtec software. 

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