James Morse

Prismcut ignores Vinylmaster origin settings?

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OK - let's say you have a 24" roll of vinyl and you cut a small item at the right hand edge.  You have all the rest of the width available to cut.  In Vinylcut you set the width to 24" and you can do "Preview" to see where are your cut(s) going to be.  If you change the x origin you will see in the Preview that it does actually move the item over to the left - thus avoiding the already-cut part of the material.  So far so good.  However, when you send it to the cutter, it always starts the cut at  0,0 or in other words the normal origin.  With the origin set at say 5", 0, it should be starting the cut over 5" (thus missing the already-cut part).  I can't find any thing else to change - cutter is installed to the software and all that.  Is it possible that the option "use software settings" (I think that would control the knife speed/force from the software instead of from the Prismcut front panel) is tied into this?  I sure would appreciate any help.  Thank you.

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You need to move your cutter head to where you want it and reset that to zero. 0,0 is always where the cut will start. If you don't change it to the new zero it will always go back over to the old position to start cutting.

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Do you mean physically move it by pushing on it?  Isn't that bad for it?     If this is the situation then what are the origin settings in Vinylcut for?  They do nothing?  I don't understand.  Why isn't the Prismcut seeing the new origin?

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19 minutes ago, James Morse said:

Do you mean physically move it by pushing on it?  Isn't that bad for it?     If this is the situation then what are the origin settings in Vinylcut for?  They do nothing?  I don't understand.  Why isn't the Prismcut seeing the new origin?

You can use the arrows on the machine to move the carriage head over.  Then push the ORIGIN button, on the machine.  That is where your cutter starts measuring your design from at X0 Y0.   Also with the cutter turned off, you can place the carriage head where ever you want it.  Then push the ORIGIN button on the machine. X0 Y0 is where the design is measured from. Make sure you have enough room for your design either way you do it. 

Some cutter programs run from the cutters themselves.  Some run from the software program.  I have a Graphtec, I get to choose whether I want to run it from the software only or from the vinyl cutter it's self. 

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OK, thanks very much, I'll do that.  Seems like it would solve the problem.  Still seems like it would be a nice option to be able to do it in the software; I'm still unclear on where is the disconnect software-wise.  Is the Vinylmaster software sending the new origin, but Prismcut just ignores it?  Seems like then it should not be an option in the software if Prismcut is the installed cutter.  Otherwise there are options in the software that appear to exist, but actually don't exist, and this is the source of the confusion.  In similar situations the option should just be greyed out or not appear - since it actually does nothing, as far as I can tell from what you are saying.  For instance, if you try to set margins in Word that the installed printer can't do, it tells you.  So it is not uncommon, in fact, it's standard, for the software to offer (or not offer) options dependent on the installed device.  I'm trying to determine is the issue with the Vinylmaster (for offering options not available) or with the Prismcut (for ignoring options sent to it).  Whichever it is, it should be fixed - it's definitely some kind of bug.  That said, thanks again for the workaround, I will do it.  Much appreciated!

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The software is for ANY vinyl cutter.  Value cutter up to high end units. Vinyl cutters are listed in the software.   Very few softwares are made for just 1 vinyl cutter.    The only ones that I know of are Flexistarter, that only have a few vinyl cutter models in them that are made for a Liyu or a Refine. Or a PCut.  They are made that way, so the distributor can offer them free with a vinyl cutter. And that would be the only drivers in them. Those softwares are specially made for the models.  Just like Vinyl Master from UScutter. only has their models in them, instead of the full version models that Vinyl Master actually sells from their website.

Vinyl Master software was created long before this Prisimcut was developed.  That cutter is new to UScutter line up of cutters. 

Your welcome. :D

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Right, the software can drive multiple cutters, just like Word can drive multiple printers.  That I understand.  And the drivers supplied are determined by the vendor of the software.  That's all clear.  However, I have the driver - and it seems like what you are saying is, the driver for the Prismcut is what is at fault, because, it doesn't interpret the commands for origin from Vinylcut.  If it did, then it would work.  Sounds like the fault is in the driver.  I agree it's probably not reasonable to expect Vinylcut to look at the driver being used (although, of course, it does) and then adjust its menu choices based on the driver, besides, you could probably have multiple cutters set up.  In short, the Prismcut driver - whoever wrote it - neglected to include interpretation for the changed-origin command.  I would guess it was somehow just not included, and, yes, there's a workaround, but printer/cutter drivers always should be written to correctly interpret commands from software, don't you agree?  It's kind of back to the original question, except, now I would say that it is the driver that is ignoring the commands not the Prismcut.  If you feel like we are zeroing in on the problem, then, it sounds like we should talk to whoever wrote the cutter driver, because from what you are saying it sounds like that is the culprit.  If on the other hand we knew that the driver was indeed passing through the commands from Vinylcut, but the cutter is ignoring them, then it's back to the original question.  I suppose one could say "not all commands work on all cutters" but that's so vague - it leaves you with not knowing if things you are doing in the software will have effect or not.   Thanks again for the help and clarification.

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of my over dozen plotters I have had I never had one where I set an origin from the software - always on the plotter.   

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I have owned 2 different brands of vinyl cutters.  ORIGIN is set on the vinyl cutter.   Is this the first time you have ran a vinyl cutter?   My first vinyl cutter was back in 2006. ORIGIN was set on the vinyl cutter.   I use Flexistarter software and it does not even have ORIGIN in the software. (that I can see).

Prisimcut is a rebranded vinyl cutter made for USCUTTER. It is a Skycut vinyl cutter.( with a few differences). 

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Where exactly is this origin option you're setting? Also where is the Preview you're looking at? I don't have the CUT version and I don't see options for changing origin or previewing a cut in my version. When you send to cutter, you get a preview of sorts.

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Replying both...

MZ Skeeter, yeah, I'm a newbie, first cutter I ever had (works nice, btw).  I can see that there is actually one advantage to setting the origin right at the cutter, because otherwise what you do is measure from the edge, then put that in the software (theoretically) but if you just set it with the cutter, you can see where it has to go so you don't care about the numbers.  And normally if you are doing something weird like parts of pieces you will be near the cutter anyway so there's no remote advantage there, if it did work from the software.  It still makes me wonder why are there features that are in the Vinylmaster but have no significance.  There's some disconnect somewhere there.  Since you have provided a practical workaround then in practice it is not an issue, but it still begs the question of why have features that don't work?  Or else there should be (is?) a list somewhere that says these features do not apply to these plotters (it could be different for different plotters).  Lastly - if apparently everyone always sets origin at the plotter anyway, then why would it be in the software in the first place?  (plus not work).  Thanks so much for the fix and all the additional info.

 

darcshadow, I have V.4.2 Vinylmaster Cut Version 202001.02., it came with the P28.   Click on the cut icon; you should see three tabs - click on "Settings".  You will (or in mine I do anyway) see origin with boxes for x and y.  If you change x and/or y you will see in the preview picture, which is on the right side of my screen in the same box, that it changes the position of the cut on the material (moves it to the left (x) or towards the feed (y).  Actually I guess you can even do negative origins if you want (in theory).  Anyway that's how it works on my version, you can do all those things before sending the plot, cut, or area test, or whatever you are doing.

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Finally got to my cut computer and found the settings you were changing. Never new that was there.  ha! And FYI, it does work as you would expect it to with my MH cutter. I'll probably never use it, as like most others I'm in the habit of setting the origin at the machine although I do wonder now why it doesn't work as expected with the Prismcut.

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4 hours ago, James Morse said:

.  I can see that there is actually one advantage to setting the origin right at the cutter, because otherwise what you do is measure from the edge, then put that in the software (theoretically) but if you just set it with the cutter, you can see where it has to go so you don't care about the numbers.  And normally if you are doing something weird like parts of pieces you will be near the cutter anyway so there's no remote advantage there, if it did work from the software.  It still makes me wonder why are there features that are in the Vinylmaster but have no significance.  There's some disconnect somewhere there.  Since you have provided a practical workaround then in practice it is not an issue, but it still begs the question of why have features that don't work?  Or else there should be (is?) a list somewhere that says these features do not apply to these plotters (it could be different for different plotters).  Lastly - if apparently everyone always sets origin at the plotter anyway, then why would it be in the software in the first place?  (plus not work). 

James, for comparative knowledge. Higher end cutter like the Graphtec, Summa or Roland will actually measure the vinyl when you load it. It's called  "polling the plotter" and if the machine is capable it will just feed that info over to the cutting program and then it knows how much there is there to work with. It comes in handy sometimes but some people shut the feature off. If for instance you had a graphic that was larger than your available width my program (SignCut Pro) will automatically tile it into two cuts. Another good thing is if you keep the cutting area inside the outer pinch rollers then you avoid a situation where your cutter head runs off an edge and potentially damages something. 

I think you will find that even with a cutter that doesn't keep track that you still need to have accurate information input into the program or you'll probably have issues. If for instance you try to cut a 22" graphic but only have 15" plugged into the program(even though you have 24" actually in the cutter) the program will think you only have 15" and may give you problems or only complete 15" of it or perhaps tile it into two cuts which you didn't intend. So the numbers still matter. When I had my budget cutter I sometimes just plugged a larger number like 24" in so that I could ignore the effort and I just measured each job manually to be sure it would fit on the vinyl I had loaded. I occasionally ran off the side of scrap pieces and was lucky I didn't break something. 

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Thanks WIldgoose.  I guess the Prismcut is not high end, although, I have to say the cuts it produces are simply amazingly excellent, so, it's no toy, either.  I got into this whole thing because I wanted to do graphics for a specific purpose, and got a price locally to do the stencil (not cheap) and that told me that since I actually have to so several, it wouldn't take very long before I had the price of a cutter in it, plus they charge for any image tweaks, etc, which I would much rather do myself.  So I started out looking at price, and I didn't go with the cheapest (nor the most expensive).  I'd say if that's all that the Prismcut doesn't do (the origin business) then I'm probably in good shape as far as the choice.  The software/cutter does do something called "Area test" which runs the cutter head over the area to be used for the cut - if it isn't there, I'm not sure if it tells you "too small" or if you are supposed to see or what.

Anyway - the folks at USCutter were pretty good at answering questions, they recommended it, and I think it was a good recommendation, so unless I run into something else, the extra 600 or so for the Roland probably wouldn't have been worth it for me.  I'm not in a production environment, these are a few projects, and I suppose miscellaneous t-shirts and so on but that is just because those are neat to do, not why I got it.

What I do is cut 1" high letters on paint mask, and transfer it to the work surface, then I paint brick red (this always goes under gilt, at least how I do it), then after that is dry I paint on the gold size, when that is tacky I apply the 23k gilt.  In the one test I did so far, I noticed that if the paint and/or size are applied more than sparingly, the thickness of these layers can cause the stencil to pull off seraphs (small thin parts) so probably I will do another test before the actual work.  Also I found that all loose gilt must be thoroughly off there before taking off the stencil as it tends to stick to paint (this is all oil-based work) even if no size is there.  Any defects or faults would have to be addressed before taking off the stencil, you cannot "fix" letters by hand once the stencil is off.  The removal of the stencil has to be done very carefully to not have happen what I described.  It's not an easy thing.  I may consider omitting the brick red underlying layer, that might make the stencil removal less problematic.  It's tricky because one bad letter will show up like a bad apple and after the stencil is off there is really not much you can do to try to fix it.  So I'll keep doing tests until I get (hopefully) perfect results, before I do the actual work.  The letters, when done right, look absolutely awesome.  There is no problem with the cutter and the stencil.  It's the rest of the work that is hard.  I used a little soapy water in my tests to be able to move the stencil around to get its placement good, and found that it takes very little.  If it could be done well with none (lubricant) that would be maybe better, because I'm wondering if any residue remains that could cause the red to not stick to the paint it goes onto.  That is in relation to the seraphs wanting to peel off the work with the stencil, that I described.  Yes I am completely new to all this and working my way through it.  I have a roll of bond paper so I always use the ink pen and draw out my work before I do a cut, I imagine everyone does it like that until they are confident.  The result has to be very good because the actual work is fairly large (say 15" x 60") and that's a lot of gilt - very expensive - so if it's not good it's a costly waste.  Anyway - any comments about that, I welcome... I went off-topic there from the original post... thanks again.

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I believe I have tested this working on mine. I will say though if you are seeing this, I would blame it more on vinylmaster. I think this software is a steaming pile!

There are soo many little things with this software that makes me trust it less and less. Most of these items are on the actual cut screen too. 

That being said, I manually set the origin from the cutter screen because it is easier to adjust it while at the cutter . 

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