MrsPib

Titan 3 (28") - Cuts are not lining up, leaving "tails" (PICTURES)

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Long time lurker, first time poster.

Purchased a Titan 3 recently, and set-up is going okay, except that the machine will not close it's cuts.

If I set the 'Blade Comp' to 'Vertical', the machine struggles with closing CIRCLES.
If I set the 'Blade Comp' to "Horizontal', the machine struggles with closing SQUARES, or straight lines. Circles are passable however.

Using VinylMaster LTR for software.

Is there a software calibration or setting I'm over-looking?
Is there hardware set-up that I'm over-looking?

I've been working with this machine the past couple of days, trying to figure out what it wants. I wrangled a MH721 into really good shape for the past few years, so that I felt confident (at first) that I could figure this one out too. Looks like I was wrong, please help!!

 

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First let's start with making sure that you set your blade depth correctly. No using a credit card or post it notes to set blade depth. That is just wrong, and we can't get rid of that myth.  This is the correct way.  This has to be correct before your force and blade offset are set correctly. Sign vinyl is only 2.5-3 mil thick, so you only cut with the very tip of the blade.

To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing. You should just barely see and feel your blade tip out of the blade holder. 

Then set your blade offset. Start with 0.25mm and adjust at + or - 0.05, and see if your TEST feature looks correct.  That looks to be in Vinyl Spooler >CUT OPTIONS

User manual shows a square and a triangle. as your test cut, does it look like that when you use it?   Adjust to get it like that.   When you get every thing set up correctly, and the lines are not meeting, add a little OVERCUT in your cutting software. 

Also, never be pulling from the roll while cutting. Always have enough vinyl slack to do the entire order. 

titan test.JPG

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Thank you for the quick reply, MZ.

I have my blade depth set to lightly score the silicone under layment of the vinyl. 

I have the pressure fairly light ("72" on the Titan3) and I dialed my speed fairly low too (nearly a crawl, to rule out speed slop).

I have tried both manually setting the blade offset, and running the software's calibration tool for offset. More info on that is...

Over-cut started off at "2", but was leaving a very long "tail" where it wasn't closing. I currently have it at ".50" for a very short tail

I make a habit of unrolling vinyl before loading, never letting the machine do the pulling. These cuts pictured were with small precut pieces, very light with no obstructions.

I also switched back to my old program, Sure Cuts Alot, and the not-closing issue persisted (I'm trying to cover all bases, and wanted to verify it wasn't a obvious software issue).



 

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What does your TEST feature  cut look like?   How did you set your blade depth?  Please answer the question. You can have too much blade exposed and still just lightly score the vinyl. It's all about less blade, more force.   If you can take that blade holder out of the machine, and  in your hand can firmly cut across vinyl and it cuts all the way thru the vinyl and backing paper, then you have too much blade exposed out of the blade holder. 

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Thank you for your patience while I swapped cutters around.

The small triangle is the machine-provided test pattern. The large triangle is a test pattern sent through the VinylMasters software. Same settings.

I set my blade by the US Cutter recommended 1/64th protruding, then adjust depth until vinyl is fully cut, and under layment is slightly scored. Due to my MH721 blade holder having a tendency to scratch material, I have always gone as light as possible with the pressure. It worked out great for the MH721.

I'll give your blade adjustment procedure a try on the Titan 3, and post a picture of the results

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Blade holder removed from machine and dragged across material in a perpendicular (to the best of my ability) fashion. Under layment wasn't scored at all. Material needed a little separating force to split.

Loaded holder back into machine and ran a machine-provided test cut. Material cut fully.

Have we ruled out incorrect blade depth?

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Since you have already tried another software cutting program, I don't think that troubleshooting with SignBlazer will help, but go ahead and try it, maybe you'll get lucky.

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  When dragging the blade holder firmly across the vinyl,  My instructions state, that you must adjust the blade until it does lightly scores the backing.  Then you put the blade holder make into the machine. NOW adjust your force on your machine, until it cuts correctly. Same results, only cutting the vinyl and slightly on the wax paper backing. That way you know you are all the way thru the adhesive.     1/64 inches  is almost 4 mil.  Your only cutting vinyl in 2.5-3 mil. If your cutting sign vinyl or HTV.   Oracal vinyl is 2.5.mil.  Cast vinyl would be 2 mil thick. You set your blade depth to the vinyl that you are going to cut.  Many, many people are having problems with setting correct blade depth, because for a very long time now, UScutter is posting wrong instructions. Then people are coming here with problems. 

 

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This is posted my another member and a great photo of where your want to get your cutter to cut correctly.    Make some squares with the square tool.  circle.  Type some text from the software.   

offset1.JPG

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Thank you for the clarification, MZ. Once I loaded the blade and started cutting production files, I did need to drop it down slightly to fully cut.

I appreciate your thorough explanation of how to set the blade. I believe that we are very close to being on the same page as to how the blade should be set up.

I'm currently running more test cuts. The original file posted, and the severity of the original issue, seem to have been mitigated. I wish I had a more concrete answer for what it was, but here are things that happened between then and now.

  • Restarted program
  • Dropped speed from 96 to 72
  • Took out blade and confirmed depth
  • Ran blade offset test again, which dropped it from .55 to .45 (YES, that is high for a 45-degree).
    • Running production files, I'm dropping it down even more (.40 currently) until final product looks right. I don't know if I'm not reading the calibration test correctly, or if the test is to be taken with a grain of salt, much like the machine's test pattern.
    • It's possible there is a slight difference between my MH blades and what the Titan wants, accounting for the increased depth and offset. However, best cuts I've had on it so far with these numbers, so I'm going to run it and see what info I can gather from it.
  • Changed primary grit rollers, keeping the same pinch rollers.
    • It appears that when I rely on my 2nd-from-right grit roller and one other, the cuts are most likely to leave tails or be slightly distorted. I can't see or feel anything wrong with it, but have been running files with different roller combinations, and that area seems to be the sloppiest.

I'm continuing to use it, hoping to gather more concrete symptoms and solutions.

Thank you all for your input so far!

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31 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

This is posted my another member and a great photo of where your want to get your cutter to cut correctly.    Make some squares with the square tool.  circle.  Type some text from the software.   

offset1.JPG

Wonderful, thank you! I'll save this for reference.

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39 minutes ago, MrsPib said:

Wonderful, thank you! I'll save this for reference.

Your welcome.  When you have too much blade exposed, you are cutting with the side of the the blade., not the very tip of the blade, which is all you need to cut with. When the blade depth is not set correctly, you will get dovetails and cuts not lining up. That is why blade depth is so important, when setting up the cutter. Blade depth has to be correct from the git go.  Everything else falls in after that. 

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It shouldn't matter, but have you done a size calibration? If not, it can't hurt to give it a go. VM has a calibration procedure to get the size dialed in.

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I'll try that as well, Darc - Thank you!

To follow up, it looks like it is primarily a grit roller. I don't see WHY the grit roller is effecting it, but when I use a certain combination of rollers, the cutter will not close it's lines.

I've been able to release the cutter to production, as long as that one roller isn't used.

I'll continue updating if I find out more conclusively why, or how it was fixed.

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An update:

Scratch from the record it being a grit roller. The "tails" issues ended up following the designs regardless of where I loaded material.

I tried a new blade holder at one point and the issue got better, but was still present and intermittent.

That's when I packed my blade holder with grease.

For better or for worse, that's been my solution, and it's working like a charm. I packed my original holder first, and it began working better than my new holder. Satisfied that I hadn't ruined anything, I packed my new blade holder, and it's working perfectly so far.

As far as I can tell, for what ever reason, my blades are wobbling in the holder. I've tried USCutter blades, and the Roland variety from Amazon. I don't know what other brands to try, but neither of those helped the issue.

I used marine grease because it has much more "slip" than wheel bearing grease. Petroluem Jelly may be similar and work just as well.

I figured I'd update the thread with this info. I can't say it's the RIGHT way of fixing the problem, but it is working.

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