bbrayrodz

Creations CR1300 Blade "Chatter"

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i have recently purchased a CR1300 for use in window film cutting.

unfortunately while trying to calibrate this machine for several days and countless hours i am still at a stand still from running a single job on this unit.

i have done everything imaginable from blade depth adjustments, cut speed adjustments, blade changes from 45* - 30*-20*.

Currently i have the machine making fairly decent cuts but not nearly good enough to trust it cutting out a 60" window plot.As of now i have a 20* blade, cut speed @60, force at 80g and it is cutting okay.. in one direction....R to L seems to cut smooth but L to R seems to have a bit of chatter. no settings seem to take this jagged line away. i have however notices that the blade holder itself is kind of beat up as it was a used blade holder. if i take the tip off of the holder and grasp the blade itself and spin the holder it wobbles from side to side and settles in the same spot every time as if it were slightly out of alignment. i am not certain but i think this could potentially be the issue... assuming that the blade as it rotates should maintain a fixed position and not wander from side to side.

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is the film getting perforated marks from L to R, or is it cutting cleanly (regardless of the chatter)?

Check the tip of your blade.

make sure the blade carriage is all good, and that there aren't any cracks in it.

open up the blade holder and absolutely, make sure, that there is no debris in it whatsoever. the amount of effort you put in spinning the blade is more force than the it needs to do it under cutting condition.

strongly consider getting a replacement blade holder.

also consider getting yourself some CleanCut Blades.

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what Haumana said and set your blade depth like skeeter has posted thousands of times - l==also chech your wear stip the blade cuts into when the blade is set too deep or you run off the vinyl
 

 

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Thank you both for the replies!

to cover the basics i have ensured the cut strip is in perfect condition and replaced it just to eliminate that particular variable.

The blade depth is correct and the force is dialed in perfectly. i believe currently it is cutting pretty good with the exception of the chatter from L to R.

all cuts R to L are great and perfectly smooth. the blade is slightly under 1/2 credit card depth and the force is dialed in perfectly. it seems as tho the holder itself has some kind of play in it and once the carriage reverses direction that play causes a difference in the blade depth by a very slight margin and this is what is causing the chatter perhaps? i discovered this play after several attempts to clean and oil the blade holder. i cleaned the holder inside and out with alcohol and a Q-tip and also oiled th blade and tip and removed excess oil...

also i get some variations in cut depth.. i am getting better cuts on the left side of the machine, material seems to be cutting very clean and at proper depth but on the right side of the machine i have a bit harder time getting the cuts out clean. i get some grabbing. if i were to do depth calibration on only right side of machine then the left side would be too deep.. and vice versa, if i were to calibrate depth on the left side then the right side of the machine would have too shallow of depth. so right now i am at a "happy" medium where i may get some cut through of the loner on the left in some areas but the right i get better cuts.

the machine simply has a vast amount of inconsistencies ive come to realize. perhaps eliminating the blade holder issue with help.

The cut strip i have is after market from cutterpros and does not look like the old cut strip and ive had to hammer the strip into the cut strip groove and i believe some areas of the cut strip may be very slightly higher then others and this may be the cause of that particular issue.

 

my apologies if this is kind of a lengthy explanation.

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If there is play in the carriage, then that's what you need to look at to begin with.

The inconsistency in the cut depth can be attributed to the carriage not holding the blade well enough, and/or your cutting strip, not being absolutely flat. Were you not able to get an OEM cutting strip?

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1 hour ago, bbrayrodz said:

Thank you both for the replies!

to cover the basics i have ensured the cut strip is in perfect condition and replaced it just to eliminate that particular variable.

The blade depth is correct and the force is dialed in perfectly. i believe currently it is cutting pretty good with the exception of the chatter from L to R.

all cuts R to L are great and perfectly smooth. the blade is slightly under 1/2 credit card depth and the force is dialed in perfectly. it seems as tho the holder itself has some kind of play in it and once the carriage reverses direction that play causes a difference in the blade depth by a very slight margin and this is what is causing the chatter perhaps? i discovered this play after several attempts to clean and oil the blade holder. i cleaned the holder inside and out with alcohol and a Q-tip and also oiled th blade and tip and removed excess oil...

also i get some variations in cut depth.. i am getting better cuts on the left side of the machine, material seems to be cutting very clean and at proper depth but on the right side of the machine i have a bit harder time getting the cuts out clean. i get some grabbing. if i were to do depth calibration on only right side of machine then the left side would be too deep.. and vice versa, if i were to calibrate depth on the left side then the right side of the machine would have too shallow of depth. so right now i am at a "happy" medium where i may get some cut through of the loner on the left in some areas but the right i get better cuts.

the machine simply has a vast amount of inconsistencies ive come to realize. perhaps eliminating the blade holder issue with help.

The cut strip i have is after market from cutterpros and does not look like the old cut strip and ive had to hammer the strip into the cut strip groove and i believe some areas of the cut strip may be very slightly higher then others and this may be the cause of that particular issue.

 

my apologies if this is kind of a lengthy explanation.

the two things in red are totally contradictory as 1/2 credit card is 10 times too much blade and will cause chatter amongst other things - see blade depth under "instructional contributions" area of the forum

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3 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

the two things in red are totally contradictory as 1/2 credit card is 10 times too much blade and will cause chatter amongst other things - see blade depth under "instructional contributions" area of the forum

Honestly, ive always thought the same thing about the credit card depth gauge as well i am just trying to put into perspective how much blade i have out. to be more descriptive i can not scratch my skit with it, the blade is barely even visible by the naked eye unless you are very close up on it. ive never even compared a credit card to it that was essentially a quick remark that i should have left out and been more specific about. if i ran the blade against the window film material by hand it would not cut the liner only the film.

 

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5 hours ago, haumana said:

If there is play in the carriage, then that's what you need to look at to begin with.

The inconsistency in the cut depth can be attributed to the carriage not holding the blade well enough, and/or your cutting strip, not being absolutely flat. Were you not able to get an OEM cutting strip?

there play in the blade holder itself is quite substantial. as far as the carriage goes i did put the blade holder into the mount and tighten the set screw. i pushed gently against the holder left to right where the problem lies and did get slight movement, maybe a mm of L to R movement.  perhaps there is a way to tighten things up there? i have tried to take the cover of the carriage off to access the internals but im having a rather difficult time and afraid i may make the problem worse or even break the carriage. any suggestions? 

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if the directions under instructional contributions doesn't work as it has for a couple thousand people then order a new holder to rule that out

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you can lead a horse to water but . . . .     it's all up to you where you go from here

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17 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

if the directions under instructional contributions doesn't work as it has for a couple thousand people then order a new holder to rule that out

The instructional has absolutely improved the cuts but still did not eliminate the issue of chatter form R to L. i have however eliminated many variables with your help and instruction and i want to thank you for that. machine is cutting much better and once i receive new blade holder that is not damaged i believe i can effectively correct this final issue.

thanks for the help.

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Make sure you come back after you replace the blade holder and let us know if it worked!

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Also after you make sure there are no bits of vinyl up in the blade holder try putting a drop of light oil like sewing machine, reel oil etc in the holder 

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4 hours ago, Wilson said:

Make sure you come back after you replace the blade holder and let us know if it worked!

Will do.

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3 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

Also after you make sure there are no bits of vinyl up in the blade holder try putting a drop of light oil like sewing machine, reel oil etc in the holder 

Noted.

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I will say my frustration with this cutter has definitely reached its limits. it is truly making me wonder if cutters of this quality are even practical for window tint film at all.

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9 minutes ago, bbrayrodz said:

I will say my frustration with this cutter has definitely reached its limits. it is truly making me wonder if cutters of this quality are even practical for window tint film at all.

Your cutter is considered a Value cutter.   Like the MH, SC2 and Laserpointer.    UScutter does not include window tint as a material to use on a Value cutter.  From what I have read, they use a 30 degree blade on the Professional cutters for cutting tint. 

https://www.uscutter.com/index/page/static/subpage/buying_guides_new

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3 hours ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Your cutter is considered a Value cutter.   Like the MH, SC2 and Lasercutter.    UScutter does not include window tint as a material to use for value cutters. 

understood. when i purchased this cutter from cutterpros they assured me that this model would be fine for window film. ive come to realize this is far from accurate. Window film is so thin and difficult to work with. it is 1/3rd the thickness of the vinyl i use for decals. this cutter works with no issue on regular vinyl. Window tint film is just extremely difficult to cut precisely. 

Earlier today i wanted to give a few test cuts to see if i could dial it in further to get a cut for a job i have.. below are steps.

1* Brand new 30* clean cut blade, holder is clean and put a dab of oil on tip with Q-tip.

2* Adjusted depth by using scrap piece of window film and making test cuts without going through liner. ( by hand)

3* Placed holder in machine and slowly adjusted force.

4* Force around 122g and started getting some penetration on tint film but not through full cut.  ( cutting out a test rectangle about 4" long x 1.5" )

5* Adjusted to 123g force and cuts penetrated deeper but cant quite remove cut out without pulling and tearing film.

6* Adjusted to 124g force and now material is binding up as if too deep...  cuts where it did not bind are pulling out good with no cuts through liner.

 

note: speed has been turned down on machine to eliminate material binding... no change.

 

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17 minutes ago, bbrayrodz said:

when i purchased this cutter from cutterpros they assured me that this model would be fine for window film. ive come to realize this is far from accurate. Window film is so thin and difficult to work with. it is 1/3rd the thickness of the vinyl i use for decals. this cutter works with no issue on regular vinyl. Window tint film is just extremely difficult to cut precisely. 

a salesman will usually tell you what you want to hear to make a sale - after 12 years here I can say the people with experience usually tell it like it is - good or bad.

must be cutterpros didn't provide the level of support you needed?  this group of volunteers have been here for years helping everyone let down by other sellers along with supporting those that buy from uscutter - when they are closed on the nights and weekends - that I why I am pretty happy to be a part of this group.

 

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3 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

a salesman will usually tell you what you want to hear to make a sale - after 12 years here I can say the people with experience usually tell it like it is - good or bad.

must be cutterpros didn't provide the level of support you needed?  this group of volunteers have been here for years helping everyone let down by other sellers along with supporting those that buy from uscutter - when they are closed on the nights and weekends - that I why I am pretty happy to be a part of this group.

 

well, i could be talking with cutterpros staff but i have a hard time getting a response to phone call or email, at first they were great...but here i am talking to people actually lending the help. i appreciate all the feedback and information you guys are extremely competent and helpful. Great group of people over here at uscutter.

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The beauty of a good user forum, we are glad you are here as it gives us something to think about too.  

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cutterpro product description of the machine.

"The Creation CR series vinyl cutters have been brought back by popular demand. These are the best cutters for cutting delicate materials such as window tint, sign vinyl and heat transfer material. The sandbar drive system is gentile on the material and the vacuum pull down system is continuous across the length of the machine resulting in good tracking of thin materials. Pair with VinylMaster for best results"

I thought stepper motors were not acceptable for thin material.... hmmm, makes me wonder why they are promoting this machine for use in window film.

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Stepper motors are not preferable but not necessarily not able to do it.   Charlie Eagan once said that advertising is legalized lying.   Any pro tint shop I have been in or saw pictures of had graphtec fc series and maybe one or two rolands.   

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i typically hand cut but some jobs such as windshields and rear glass would be really awesome to have a plotter for. even cutting all windows on plotter would save tons of time and could increase efficiency substantially. i hope to get the CR1300 fixed with the new blade holder and then i will worry about upgrading to graphtec.

i guess all this is contingent upon this Covid-19 crap. really has been putting a hurt on everyone it seems.

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Most value cutters will not get you the precision that you're looking for.

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