Urabus

What clear application tape for Oracal 951 vinyl?

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I bought Oracal 951 gloss black vinyl for my car graphics.  I need the 951 because I have to go over compound curved surfaces, which the 651 will not conform to (I tried it).

US Cutter in an email reply to me, recommended RTape Clear Choice AT65 high-tack clear application tape for use with the 951 vinyl.  I need the clear tape to see the surface I am applying to verify there are no bubbles or creases over compound curves.

The problem is that the high tack clear application tape pulls the Oracal 951 vinyl right back off the car after it is applied.  It's a mess!  I also noticed that the 951 vinyl is not very sticky and pulled off the car with ease.  My 651 vinyl you have to work at it to remove it.

So what is the correct clear application tape for the Oracal 951 vinyl?  It has to be clear not paper.

I did a search and there was one older topic about application tape for Oracal 951 but it did not apply to my question. I tried the AT65 high-tack on my 651 vinyl and it seems to wok fine for that.

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clear tape is not flexible enough to use on compound curves. It does not stretch.  Best to use for flat surfaces and only dry.    Paper tape would be the best to use on curves. Plus you can wet paper tape,  you cannot wet clear tape.  You should practice more with paper tape. 

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I had bad results trying to use the paper tape over compound curved surfaces and would end up with creases in the vinyl after pulling the tape off because I could not see through the paper.  I can only do well what I can see well.  I am applying wide striping to the car so it has to be done perfect with no bubbles or creases. 

I was able to do a test with the high tack clear tape and I got the 951 vinyl to stretch to fit the compound curves of my bumper just fine.  But then the app tape pulled the vinyl right back off the car!  Just seems the 951 has a very weak adhesive compared to the 651 I am used to.  I am currently researching the 951 and app tapes but so far everything says you can use just about any application tape on it.  Even the AT65 tape is "supposed" to work but it clearly does not.

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Every stripe that I ship and I ship plenty, only has paper tape.  No complaints.  If vinyl is squeegeed good, it shouldn't come off the surface. Or the vehicle was not clean. had wax etc.   Or old vinyl. 

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cast vinyl is thinner by nature - if your application tape is applied to your graphic without bubbles or creases in the tape you can tell when you have bubbles 

practice is your friend and you have chosen and expensive project to learn compound curves on.   CLEAR will never stretch enough to allow the vinyl to adhere to a panel that curves 2 ways at once - like the bumble bee stripes on a truck bed - if you can do it you are better than 99 percent of us that have been doing this over 10 years

 

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4 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Every stripe that I ship and I ship plenty, only has paper tape.  No complaints.  If vinyl is squeegeed good, it shouldn't come off surface. Or the vehicle was not clean. had wax etc.   Or old vinyl. 

I am beginning to wonder if the roll of 951 they sold me is old.  It has perforations on both edges for gear feed cutters.  All the 15" 951 vinyl is listed as perforated here at US cutter.  But the perforations are not consistent and have overlaps in the spacing of the holes....telling me that they sold me material that was reject material for geared cutting because it would never work for that purpose without jamming up.  Maybe it is very old.  Are geared cutters even used?  Even when cutting smaller projects on it there would be pieces that would come of the carrier backing paper while it was cutting! My 651 vinyl sticks very well and I have had no problems with stripes on flat surfaces using paper transfer.  I am now trying to add stripes over compound curves which I can't get the 651 to do at all.  The 951 just acts more like removable vinyl I have worked with before.  It stretches nicely but comes right off with ease.

So I guess my problem is the 951 just isn't sticking like I think it should.  I clean and apply it like the 65, but it doesn't stick!

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What he ^^^ said. It takes a LOT of practice and the Pro's use paper. Once you get it installed if you are fighting the release you can wet the surface of paper and it will help get it off. You say you need to see the vinyl but that makes no sense to me. If you have your app tape on without bubbles then you will see if you get a bubble in the paper too and you might get one here and there but they can be removed with a pin prick (not a knife tip though)

The perforated holes are for the gear drive machines like the Gerber cutters and while you don't see them all that often out in the private sector they are often true tangential head commercial grade machines. The weird spaced overlap is something to do with an alignment on the sprockets. I don't know that I have ever bought 15" vinyl that wasn't perforated from any source. Some 30" stuff I have bought was perforated. 

Never had an issue with 951 (or 751 for that matter) not sticking. It is much more pliable so it will react differently than 651 where 651 is so stiff it stays down kind of like a piece of plastic. I think it recommended to let it sit a few minutes to gain a "bite". Are you squeegeeing it really well? Compound shapes are much trickier to do a good job on the squeegee. The wrap guys use the air release and chase the bubbles out as they go. 

 

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Thanks. I am squeegeeing it very well.  I think I am over doing it most of the time and fear rubbing through when I use the paper tape : / 

I'll back off the paper / clear tape equation as it now seems to be a preference issue.  As I said, I did get the 951 to squeegee down to my particular compound curve bodywork with the clear tape.  I felt better using the clear tape because seeing through clear is easier than seeing though white paper to me.

If not the vinyl tack then, should I be using a medium tack tape instead?  Is everybody else using high tack tape with Oracal 951 with no problems?

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The only time that I've needed to use a high tack tape was when I did a matte vinyl for an art show, all other times, regardless of 651/751/951, I've used medium tack.

You feel more comfortable with the clear, and that well and good, but just remember what some of the other responders said, clear will NEVER stretch, so trying over a compound curved surface and expecting some level of everything being able to lay flat is highly unrealistic.

And for the record, I can't say that I have ever squeegeed through application tape, whether it was paper or clear.

Good luck.

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Thank you.  I am ordering a medium tack clear, and medium tack paper sampler tape rolls now. 

When I tried using paper tape wet once, I did scrape through some of the tape. Even dry...well maybe I press too hard. No one can say I don't make sure the tape is squeegeed down well at least. I prefer working dry anyway.  Just not understanding this new ( to me ) 951 vinyl. 

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ummm ... how are you holding your squeegee? there are times that I apply as much pressure as i possibly can, still have never gone through app tape. i prefer dry applications as well, but even when doing wet, never tore paper tape. there are times when i wrinkle the app tape, that's when i'm rushing to tape something up, applying too much pressure, and squeegeeing the wrong way. totally user error.

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1 hour ago, Urabus said:

Thanks. I am squeegeeing it very well.  I think I am over doing it most of the time and fear rubbing through when I use the paper tape : / 

I'll back off the paper / clear tape equation as it now seems to be a preference issue.  As I said, I did get the 951 to squeegee down to my particular compound curve bodywork with the clear tape.  I felt better using the clear tape because seeing through clear is easier than seeing though white paper to me.

If not the vinyl tack then, should I be using a medium tack tape instead?  Is everybody else using high tack tape with Oracal 951 with no problems?

Where did ANYONE say they would use clear - everyone responded that they would never use clear for compound curves brickwall.gif
Are you using rapic tac for your application solution for your wet application or a home brew?

751 or 951 for body panels with no problems but it was a bit more learning to apply the Cast vinyl
 

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If you're just doing simple straight line stripes, you might have an easier time using wrap vinyl and knifeless tape. You put the tape on kind of like pin striping, then the vinyl on over, then pull the tape up and it cuts the vinyl. No application tape needed.

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Nobody did say to use clear, but no one answered which tape to use for 951 either. High tack, medium tack, low tack, which brand etc. is what I was looking for.  This turned into a clear vs paper debate instead.  If paper is the choice all you are using, then what paper? I appreciate all the input. The paper I tried wet came apart doing a wet application.  I used water spray on the back of the vinyl as per manufactures recommendation (on the relatively flat roof of my car).  The water softened and weakened the paper fiber at the edges and it tore using an orange plastic squeegee with rounded edges.  As far as plastic never working for a compound curve I have to disagree there.  It just plain worked on my very first try over the actual compound curves I had to apply over.  I could clearly see the creases starting to form and backed off a little and then squeegeed in the needed manner to get the vinyl to stretch to fit the curves. The job would have been done and you never would have heard a word from me if the transfer tape had not pulled the vinyl right off the car afterward.  I could not save it.

I ordered both clear and paper medium tack samples to practice with. I am sure there are more pronounced compound curves that the clear tape simply will not work for as you all have said.  If I can get the 951 to go on smooth with the paper sample I will use that because it is cheaper.  The clear I can use up for other projects with my 651 vinyl.  If the clear has too much tack or pull then obviously I cannot continue to use it for the 951 vinyl, no matter if I can get it to work for application.

In the meantime I really appreciate all the responses here.  I know you don't have to take your time to answer anyone's question, especially a newbie that doesn't know much and trying to find his way.  If anyone does have a brand/type of paper that they always to use with the 951 gloss vinyl's, on car paint, I would like to know. : )

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16 minutes ago, darcshadow said:

If you're just doing simple straight line stripes, you might have an easier time using wrap vinyl and knifeless tape. You put the tape on kind of like pin striping, then the vinyl on over, then pull the tape up and it cuts the vinyl. No application tape needed.

Thanks. No actually I am doing custom designs.  See the front bumper area where the hood stripe stops.  That is the compound curves are I need to go over.  I had the 651 on that part for a week but removed it because it had creases I was embarrassed to show : /  I wraps over compound curves in three different directions on the nose of the car. Straight stripes do not go straight as the curves change direction.  My final art work for that stripe is bent in two places to compensate for the angles and curves.

20181027_095500.jpg

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Well by simple I meant not a design like flames or tribal or something. The knifeless tape you put on like pin striping so you'd have to do it by eye, but in many cases putting pin stripe on by eye can be easier than trying to computer cut the compound curve. It's just another way of doing the same thing and a different tool in your tool box. Might be worth getting some and playing around with. Some jobs it can be much easier/faster, other jobs, pre cut is the way to go.

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RTape Conform Series 4076-RLA paper tape - uscutter sells it.  after application spray the application tape with app fluid and let it sit a minute - it will soak thru and allow the paper to pull right off.
Are you cleaning all wax off of the area first with something like 90 percent rubbing alcohol?


wouldn't hurt to pick up another squeegee too  - could be the edges are sharp or squeegee too hard on the orange one - https://www.uscutter.com/Avery-Dennison-Red-Pro-Flex-Felt-Edge-Soft-Squeegee

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Thanks, I was wondering what squeegee might do a better job on paint that is not perfectly smooth. Will try with next order.

I use isopropyl alcohol to clean wax off.  I saw the RT Conform tape but the description made it sound like was for matte vinyl or walls.  I'll get some sample footage to try.

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This is another noob question, but why does transfer tape need to tear clean?  I don't understand under what circumstances I would want to tear it instead of cutting it?

I am going to try that sample too with my next order.  I've been going by the product descriptions on the website which seem to rule out so many tapes if you are not in the know.  Nothing ever says it's for cars either : /

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I have many long strips of transfer tape stuck to my walls,   When I trim away large graphics,  I stick those to my walls,, then when I do a large graphics, I roll them up and tear off and use those strips of transfer tape to hold them in a circle to ship.   I also tear off small strips to place on each end of my vinyl rolls, to hold my rolls of vinyl together.  The tape is not stringy when you cut it either.    Many vendors like where I purchase from, slit the 48" rolls, and when they do the ends come out very clean, without all the adhesive, and  stringy residue.  This tape lays much flatter and doesn't curl up on your graphics ends.    Tape has to do with the vinyl you use,  not about vehicles.  You use the correct vinyl for a surface your applying to, then you use the correct tape for the vinyl.  You also want a tape that unrolls evenly as your applying, so that the edges don't stick to the outside edge of the roll. 

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On 1/21/2019 at 10:22 AM, Urabus said:

Thanks. No actually I am doing custom designs.  See the front bumper area where the hood stripe stops.  That is the compound curves are I need to go over.  I had the 651 on that part for a week but removed it because it had creases I was embarrassed to show : /  I wraps over compound curves in three different directions on the nose of the car. Straight stripes do not go straight as the curves change direction.  My final art work for that stripe is bent in two places to compensate for the angles and curves.

This may sound dumb, but for something that small, try doing it without any transfer tape at all. Just cut the stripe, peel it off the paper, wet it, put it on, get it in the right place and squeegee it.

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One thing to be careful with if you do that, vinyl stretches easier than you'd think so take care pealing the vinyl off the backing.

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