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651 White being difficult. All other colors are fine

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Hello everyone,

 

I am using a LP2 cutter and whenever I cut something out of my white 651, it is always gives me a hard time weeding. I had to reverse weed 100 decals last weekend and that was not fun at all. It seems to cut through but there's a clear adhesive layer that stays behind kind of. All other colors are perfectly fine.

 

And help is appreciated.

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I think sometimes you just get a roll that does that. Are you weeding right after the cut? That can be a factor, if you let it sit too long the adhesive will ooz back together. I have had different success weeding with different brands, colors etc even different days due to temp or humidity on a roll that weeded fine previously. I don't know what causes the difference whether it's a slightly older roll or the adhesive amount was slightly thicker or thinner.  Make sure you have a fresh blade and are dialed in perfectly or try a 60deg blade. 651 is a little stiff and usually that works as an advantage but on detailed cuts I often switch over to 751 and have an easier time of it. Cast vs calendared makes a might big difference and the cost per decal is negligible. If you run cheap blades I would get a clean cut blade and you will see a difference there for sure.Just be sure to halve your pressure and work back into the cut because the clean cut will take much less pressure than the Chinese bulk blades. 

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28 minutes ago, Wildgoose said:

I think sometimes you just get a roll that does that. Are you weeding right after the cut? That can be a factor, if you let it sit too long the adhesive will ooz back together. I have had different success weeding with different brands, colors etc even different days due to temp or humidity on a roll that weeded fine previously. I don't know what causes the difference whether it's a slightly older roll or the adhesive amount was slightly thicker or thinner.  Make sure you have a fresh blade and are dialed in perfectly or try a 60deg blade. 651 is a little stiff and usually that works as an advantage but on detailed cuts I often switch over to 751 and have an easier time of it. Cast vs calendared makes a might big difference and the cost per decal is negligible. If you run cheap blades I would get a clean cut blade and you will see a difference there for sure.Just be sure to halve your pressure and work back into the cut because the clean cut will take much less pressure than the Chinese bulk blades. 

Thanks for the info. It has been on a few different rolls. I just thought it was weird that it's only been white giving me issues. I usually weed after cutting or within a day or 2. I am using the blades that came with the cutter but will be replacing soon and will look into the clean cut. I haven't tried 751 yet either but might try that as well. Thank you

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Waiting a day or could be your problem,  the vinyl will self heal it's self.  Don't cut more than you can weed at 1 time.  Even try a bump up in force a notch or 2. .  Make sure vinyl stays at room temps.   My Oracal 651 white weeds great, always has. Been cutting for 12 years.   Old vinyl will have more trouble cutting and weeding.  Cutting too deep can cause problems also, and push the vinyl into the backing. 

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I have an LPII, also and the same problem with white.  The suggestions so far are right on the money.  Mz Skeeter's suggestion of bumping up the pressure will help quite a bit.  Wildgoose is right that the CleanCut blade makes a huge difference.  Most importantly, don't let it sit. Weed it immediately.  To test it out I cut a design one afternoon and didn't weed, cut the same design the next morning and then weeded both.....massive difference.  The white definitely self heals. Even an hour or two will make a difference with white.

It's not just 651, I've got some Green Star (USCutter's store brand 651 "equivalent" ). The white on it is the same way.    Just last week I was on here pulling my hair out because 3M Scotchbrite reflective is so much harder to cut and weed in white then it is in red and black. I bought a lightboard off Amazon because I couldn't see the lines to weed it after less than an hour.

Slightly interesting side note:  balloon twisters have the same issue.  Certain colors are much more prone to popping because the additives used to color the latex make them more brittle.  White balloons are actually tougher.  They don't pop as easily but they are harder to heat shape.  So next time you see a clown making a bunny hat, remember that you have something in common.

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52 minutes ago, MZ SKEETER said:

Waiting a day or could be your problem,  the vinyl will self heal it's self.  Don't cut more than you can weed at 1 time.  Even try a bump up in force a notch or 2. .  Make sure vinyl stays at room temps.   My Oracal 651 white weeds great, always has. Been cutting for 12 years.   Old vinyl will have more trouble cutting and weeding.  Cutting too deep can cause problems also, and push the vinyl into the backing. 

Thank you for the tips. I have made sure my backing isn't getting cut based off what I've seen on the forum. I was trying to get a head a bit and cut everything beforehand so I can weed it if i am not at home. I would bring the sheets to work with me and do it on my lunch lol. 

32 minutes ago, ShaneGreen said:

I have an LPII, also and the same problem with white.  The suggestions so far are right on the money.  Mz Skeeter's suggestion of bumping up the pressure will help quite a bit.  Wildgoose is right that the CleanCut blade makes a huge difference.  Most importantly, don't let it sit. Weed it immediately.  To test it out I cut a design one afternoon and didn't weed, cut the same design the next morning and then weeded both.....massive difference.  The white definitely self heals. Even an hour or two will make a difference with white.

It's not just 651, I've got some Green Star (USCutter's store brand 651 "equivalent" ). The white on it is the same way.    Just last week I was on here pulling my hair out because 3M Scotchbrite reflective is so much harder to cut and weed in white then it is in red and black. I bought a lightboard off Amazon because I couldn't see the lines to weed it after less than an hour.

Slightly interesting side note:  balloon twisters have the same issue.  Certain colors are much more prone to popping because the additives used to color the latex make them more brittle.  White balloons are actually tougher.  They don't pop as easily but they are harder to heat shape.  So next time you see a clown making a bunny hat, remember that you have something in common.

Thank you! I have mine set at around 141g and feel like its high lol. sounds like i should try weeding quicker. 

 

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is that force number really grams or an arbitrary number assigned by a mainboard programmer?  never get hung up on numbers - only results.    I have had different batches of vinyl weed different even between colors of the same vinyl - I used to buy quite a bit of vinyl from suppliers that didn't move inventory as quickly - in later years I go for freshness and still occasionally run into differences 

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8 minutes ago, Dakotagrafx said:

is that force number really grams or an arbitrary number assigned by a mainboard programmer?  never get hung up on numbers - only results.    I have had different batches of vinyl weed different even between colors of the same vinyl - I used to buy quite a bit of vinyl from suppliers that didn't move inventory as quickly - in later years I go for freshness and still occasionally run into differences 

to be honest, I have no clue haha. But it might be some older inventory. I have been using 651vinyl recently but am not sure how fresh their stuff it. I might try upping the pressure again or maybe my blade is dulling. Haven't had it longer than 2 moths though so I feel like its something else.

 

Thank you

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If the vinyl came from UScutter, it would be pretty fresh,  Force numbers, depends on how the blade depth is set.  That is where you start, you must get the blade depth correct from the git go.  Then your force comes into play. 

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I'm sure the pressure reading is a relatively arbitrary number and not a true gram reading.  However, from one LPII to the next it should be reasonably comparable.  With the factory blades I was running 185g.  Switching to the CleanCut I'm able to get much better precision and easier weeding at only 111g.  The blades made a huge difference. It was like upgrading the whole cutter.   But the type of blade won't make make a bit of difference if the depth isn't set right.  Mz Skeeter's instructions are everywhere on this board and are worth committing to memory.

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Straight-up, a roll of 651 white, (whether new out-of-the-box, or a little bit older) is the only color I have to absolutely increase the force on, whether on my LP or Graphtec.

I do have to add a little more force to some of my older 651 colors, but not when they're new.

I just chalk it up to, "It is what it is." I know I have to do it, so I can get clean cuts that are easy to weed.

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Are you weeding it right away?  Is it sitting in a hot room?  How old is it?   Black is my most popular color.   Been using it for many years, never have problems with any Oracal 651 colors. And I never have to change my force to go from 1 color to another.  If your blade depth is set right, you shouldn't have problems.  I buy all of my vinyl in 50 yd rolls. And they are rolled tight.  Are you just buying 10 yd rolls? 

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trouble weeding - can  you be more specific? If the vinyl is cut through, but you feel the design is lifting with you're trying to weed, you might need more force (provided that your blade depth is set properly). I typically find that 651 Black one of the easiest colors to weed.

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