Sign in to follow this  
3barefoot

Some people just keep on...

Recommended Posts

Do any of you charge a artwork fee for decals? Also do you send proofs before a order has been placed?

I have one lady who has had me send a proof. I sent it in black. She asked for me to resend it in yellow.. I did.. then she asks for the fonts to be changed 4 different times. Now has asked for a quote on 30 decals and HTV for 59 shirts and doesn't like my $445 price. Below is the decal. Shirts would only need names and numbers on the back. They ordered the shirts from Custom Ink for the fronts. I'm almost to the point of telling her to go some where else.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I require a deposit of 50% up front on written estimates before embarking on any type of work.

No design is presented prior to a contract being signed and money changing hands.

Saves me headaches and avoids what you are describing.

Shirts with different numbers and names on each is for sure extra work on the design phase, because each one needs to be sent for approval prior to cutting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you are being EXTREMELY generous on your price for doing in HTV - but with 59 shifts I would order plastisol for the front part and do the back in htv - - and would be $700

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Dakota. Plastisol transfers from F&M on the front would cost you about a buck each with zero build time other than pressing. Should be at least $10 per ea on those assuming they are supplying the shirts. If you are just doing the backs not (assuming you even continue in the relationship) I would charge them at least $6 or $8 per shirt for single color. What size of numbers are they wanting on back? Hopefully 6 inch so they will fit nice on a roll of HTV. 

Look at it this way. What's going to happen if one of the shirts gets messed up? They nought the shirt and the graphic on front. you KNOW they are going to freak and make you rebuild the whole thing. I try not to press on customer supplied shirts without at least either a written indemnification or an added expense to cover my behind if I get one crooked or upside down. It happens. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have already ordered the shirts from custom ink with the fronts already done.  Guess I should have been a little more clear on that. Yes I don't like they went some where else and got the fronts done.  

I told her $445 plus tax. She then asks me what is my cash price.... I said $445. all I got back was ok. Now she tells me I don't have all the numbers yet but can you give me a turn around time. I told her I can't without all the numbers but she was looking at 1 week to a week and half. As I do this on my own, and my stuff is at a shop and not my home. 

I do this as just a side business. It's not something I push to sell. I really have to rethink my approach on stuff like this. Have a set price to see a proof or something. I pay $1.50 a foot for reg vinyl "I know may be pricey but it's a local shop and I can go get just what I need for a job" like this job will take a goldish yellow, not many people going to order that color.

Reg HTV is $39 a roll. She doesn't understand the time is what she is paying for. 

I have talked about this job all night with my other half and I'm to the point to tell her I can't do it. If she's this bad before the job I can only think what's she is going to be after. 

I have got to do a basic price sheet and just let them go from there. My only rant was all the proofs she was wanting to see. Can you make these letters solid, can you make this word bigger, make this word smaller, oh can you change the font on this word.. :angry:

I sent her 5 proofs. First one I sent was in black so she could see it better... But she could not visualize it in yellow. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3barefoot - there is a learning curve on computers and software.  This is part of the learning curve on customer service and working with people.  I suspect that we have all been there & done that.

My advise would be to listen to your gut and cut this one loose.  Yes, she will likely poor mouth you and cost you a couple jobs.  Likely this would be the outcome if you did the job.

Just my $.02 YMMV

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you can hope that she ordered extra - any problems will be hard to fix with her supplying the shirts - like goose said.   have you thought about if she gets the order and doesn't like the  color not matching on the front to back (screen printing ink and htv)?  
this is how we learn though - my best remembered lessons were the costly ones

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reminds me of a fellow who asked me to come out and do a site survey on an apartment complex for all sorts of signage (parking, wayfinder, no trespassing, etc.)  I told him I charge $90 for the trip, no free estimates, the $90 would be credited to his job if he went with me for the work. Sure, OK, he said.

As soon as I arrived, first thing out of his mouth was "I had another sign guy out here and he didn't charge me a survey fee, you shouldn't either." Jumped back in my van, and adios...

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have all these people out there with the cricut & cameo who make it seem vinyl is so cheap. In my area seems everyone and their Mama has one and doing decals dirt cheap. I'm not falling to their level. Let them go get shirts from them that have been pressed with an iron not a heat press. I'm sure this is the problem I am running into. They prob have gotten work done before from a team Mom who didn't charge them much. 

People like them are the reason I have bought a DTG printer. Those little cutters can't touch shirts I could print. lol 

I've just got to get it serviced before I can use it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, slice&dice said:

Reminds me of a fellow who asked me to come out and do a site survey on an apartment complex for all sorts of signage (parking, wayfinder, no trespassing, etc.)  I told him I charge $90 for the trip, no free estimates, the $90 would be credited to his job if he went with me for the work. Sure, OK, he said.

As soon as I arrived, first thing out of his mouth was "I had another sign guy out here and he didn't charge me a survey fee, you shouldn't either." Jumped back in my van, and adios...

 

 

most companies would send them a bill then after making the trip - if I have service from a company like lazyboy they charge for the trip no matter what work gets done after you schedule it and if you don't cancel :/

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I think if I were in your shoes I would consider a couple things and make a decision based on the answers. #1 is she a future client long term. Answer doesn't sound like it or at least not one you want because anyone so tight they will pinch the pennies to go to custom ink for a partial and want you to do the part that custom ink is too expensive for is not a good long term prospect anyway. #2 will turning her away hurt other business prospects through word of mouth? This would probably be my ONLY concern in your shoes. Some of these people are connected to everyone and can get you a bad rap even though totally undeserved in this case. If you are trying to grow and get your name out then maybe finish the job for her but make her sign something about the potential damages. If she baulks at signing a release then patiently explain the scenario of a mistake and how low you are already trying to do it for and the potential of all your efforts ending up being spent on shirts you didn't provide and a front logo that isn't yours etc... You have absolutely no room to cover any kind of mistake. I explain that often when embroidering a $6 logo on a $90 Nike jacket someone drops off.  She may not get it even then but you can at least shrug and tell her you can't take the risk for that amount of money and it will cost her the original price plus the cost of two replacement shirts whatever she values them at. Come up with a real value that she is agreeing to and she will drop the whole thing and either go away or sign the waiver. (remember that you can't go back to Custom Ink for one or two shirts without it costing copious amounts of cash or she would have had all the numbers put on there too.) so how do you even rebuild a mistake. You are going to be in the drivers seat at this point because she made a tactical error and already spent her money on the shirts and will be in a time crunch to get them finished. I bet no one else will touch them so what's she going to do when you give her a strong "meh... not interested". Ha ha. 

The other interesting thing that may happen should you go through with the job is she will totally experience the difference between htv and a screen or DTG job. I have seen some of the Custom Ink shirts and they are pretty weak IMO. I don't think they are going to hold up all that well to a sports team environment. That's a lesson that will be good for HER to learn the hard way. You get what you pay for both directions. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the graphics rant I am in the middle. If I have someone who I do regular business with I do all sorts of free mock ups ahead of the order. I'm pretty fast so the time spent is less than maybe the average but still a consideration. I provide that to people as a perk but the regulars I KNOW it's going to result in a sale. The new clients I generally send them something "similar" to what they want, even sometimes have them send me something "similar" to what they want from a google search and I give them a quote based on the IDEA of what they want and then move forward after positive affirmation that it's going to end up in a sale. If it's just prices ahead of a not for sure thing I don't waste my time designing anything. I have never had anyone get uptight (that I know of) from me telling them I don't want to sink an hour or two into something that is just a quote. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My free advice....

Time to put your big girl panty's on.

By the sounds of it nothing has been written and signed yet.   It's time you take control of the transaction and figure out what terms you want.   

Write them all down so you don't forget any.  

-   At this point I would allow 1 more proof change and tell her she will be charged $60 for any additional proof to cover design time.

-   Have it specifically spelled out you are not responsible for the shirts and the graphic on the front since she's supplying it.  

-  You are already cutting her in unbelievable deal for doing individual shirts.  Do you realize how much of a pain it is when all the shirts are different sizes.  If you mess up and put John's name on a large shirt when it's suppose to be on a small shirt you've now coming up 2 shirts short for 1 messup.   There's a shit load of time involved with this part because you're worried about messing up.  

In the end stick to your terms and if she's walks let her go.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Go-C Graphics said:

My free advice....

Time to put your big girl panty's on.

By the sounds of it nothing has been written and signed yet.   It's time you take control of the transaction and figure out what terms you want.   

Write them all down so you don't forget any.  

-   At this point I would allow 1 more proof change and tell her she will be charged $60 for any additional proof to cover design time.

-   Have it specifically spelled out you are not responsible for the shirts and the graphic on the front since she's supplying it.  

-  You are already cutting her in unbelievable deal for doing individual shirts.  Do you realize how much of a pain it is when all the shirts are different sizes.  If you mess up and put John's name on a large shirt when it's suppose to be on a small shirt you've now coming up 2 shirts short for 1 messup.   There's a shit load of time involved with this part because you're worried about messing up.  

In the end stick to your terms and if she's walks let her go.    

I know. Most teams I have done in the past do not get names. I just start with the smallest shirt at #1 and go up from there. I'm still not 100% on wanting to do this order. There is A LOT that can go wrong with this order. 

If she writes a number wrong, miss spells a name, parent sends her wrong info.. All those would fall on them not me. 

But I can grab a wrong shirt like you said. Give John a large when he wanted a small. :blink:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Dakotagrafx said:

most companies would send them a bill then after making the trip - if I have service from a company like lazyboy they charge for the trip no matter what work gets done after you schedule it and if you don't cancel :/

I certainly thought about doing so, but I'm a really nice guy, and just let it be.

Getting back to the O-P question: On my Job Sheets/Contracts, I have written that up to 2 Revisions of the artwork (i.e. - First version is v1 and I will allow up to v3) are included in the pricing quote, and each additional Version going forward will cost $40 per.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, slice&dice said:

I certainly thought about doing so, but I'm a really nice guy, and just let it be.

Getting back to the O-P question: On my Job Sheets/Contracts, I have written that up to 2 Revisions of the artwork (i.e. - First version is v1 and I will allow up to v3) are included in the pricing quote, and each additional Version going forward will cost $40 per.

Thats a good policy to have Slice. It keeps the buyer from wasting your time with endless tweaks and revisions. Been there. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so this went as follows..... 

She asked me what size the letters and numbers would be. I answer her with 2" letters and 6"-8" numbers depending on the size of the shirt. But after thinking this though, with the shirts being done by custom ink, I not sure how close I could get the color yellow they have put on the front as screen printing & HTV are different when it comes to matching colors. Also there comes the chance of putting the wrong name to the wrong number and then theres 2 shirts I have messed up. No way for me to replace it. I can still do the decals if you want me to but I would rather not do the shirts. I'm sorry.

Her response was "Well that stinks, we already had orders for this to be done."

My last text to her was....

 I have absolutely no room to cover any mistake made to any of the shirts. Example, $6.00 logo put on a $90.00 Nike jacket someone brought to me. There is no way I could replace that jacket.  I will agree to do the shirts if you would sign to release me of potential damages to the shirts.    If a shirt gets damaged you will have to replace the shirt at your cost.   I am already lower than most for doing  individual shirts.  Also a 50% non refundable deposit required with all orders over $50.00.  This price is to cover any materials I have to go buy for this order. This applies anyone who places big orders. As I have been stuck with items before. I was not aware you had already had orders. Nothing was set in stone to me yet. From my understanding it was still up in the air as to how many you were going to order, I must have missed something. Again I will do the shirts if you will release potential damages & get a replacement shirt at your cost, "if" something is to get messed up. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

watch out for the people also that get you to quote on a large order and then want that same price per piece when they cut the order in 1/2 or less.  sometimes it is like a minefield 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a good business move for you in my book.  I am sure that you felt some sense of relief after your last text.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess she didn't like that response. I still haven't heard anything back from her.

 

Spoke to soon... She just texted back. 

Sorry meant to reply back last night. I think we have another guy that will do the shirts. I understand the liability factor.

So that must mean she has been talking to someone else the whole time also. For you to find another person at 8:30pm on a Sunday night. Or either she just found someone else today. Either way I'm fine with it.  He can have her!!!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now you can spend your week doing another few jobs that are simple, straightforward and give you a profit without headaches.

Valentine's Day is not too far off, maybe find a client that wants 'Team Love'  on a bunch of shirts? Just an idea.

Design it and sell it.

tenor.png

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wildgoose said:

I think you dodged a bullet on that customer.

^^ I totally agree. There is a reason why some companies will not embroider or do any type of apparel customization unless you buy the apparel from them.

As for your time with revisions, if I don't get a good vibe from the customer, then I watermark any and all artwork mock-ups and will send proofs in a secured pdf format - even if it's something as simple as tweaking their own artwork that they sent to me. It's my time and my effort. I do a lot for friends and family with no charge for artwork tweaking, but wished that I did ... node edits can be killer sometimes.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should have just waited one more day to send anything to her. I just picked up a plumbing company that has 4 trucks they want done. So then I could have just told her I'm sorry you didn't place your order in time.

But then again, I'm glad she is done with. She can bug that man to death like she did me. 

11 hours ago, haumana said:

^^ I totally agree. There is a reason why some companies will not embroider or do any type of apparel customization unless you buy the apparel from them.

As for your time with revisions, if I don't get a good vibe from the customer, then I watermark any and all artwork mock-ups and will send proofs in a secured pdf format - even if it's something as simple as tweaking their own artwork that they sent to me. It's my time and my effort. I do a lot for friends and family with no charge for artwork tweaking, but wished that I did ... node edits can be killer sometimes.

I did put watermarks on the images I sent her. I normally don't, but with her I just had that feeling from the start.

I'm going to write up so guide lines just for mess like with her. I do this just as a side job, I don't push it to sell. If it sells it sells if it don't it don't. My husband owns a mechanic shop, I run his office and I have my cutter and everything at his shop.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this