Used Mimaki cutter/ new titan

[cardudenc 151]

I asked awhile back about a few different used cutters. I'm hoping to upgrade from my sc cutter soon. looking at a titan 2 or maybe a used brand name servo cutter. Have a guy in our business association that has a mimaki  cutter. states very little use. and it looks it. I can tell he takes very good care of his stuff. so..... go used or new titan2 with warranty. just looking for some opinions . I may have even posted about his cutter awhile back, thought he sold it since his ad was gone. but at the meeting tonight he let me know its still available

[Vitaman 27]

I have a Saga cutter that is the same as a Titan 3.  Titan's are actually just re-branded Saga cutters.  I also have a veteran sign-making friend who has a Mimaki.  That said, Mimaki is a top of the line, very solid brand.  My "Titan" hasn't given me any problems thus far, after 3 years of heavy use.  My firend's Mimaki has tangential cutting, which is a big deal.  It actually picks the blade up and rotates it to give very clean corners.  Not sure which model of Mimaki you are looking at, but I would find out if this particular cutter has that feature.  Very small details are no problem for the Mimaki.  The Saga/Titan has worked well for me, and I really haven't had any problems other than dull blades, and having to reset the offset once or twice.

My main concern would be what software works with each cutter, and if you are comfortable with it.  I had an older cutter with SCALP, and it was frustrating.  When I got this newer cutter, it came with a re-branded version of VinylMaster Pro.  I love it.  I can do 90% of all my designing and tweaking in it, without opening up Adobe softwares.  

I'm sure you will be ecstatic with any servo cutter after using that SC.  Whichever you choose, you will just have to adjust to it, and get a feel for it.   Just get a new, good blade (Clean Cut), and start learning all the features and quirks.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I would lean toward a name brand machine. I don't know much about the mimaki cutters but they have a lot of years behind them. Even with the new flood of "servo" budget cutters I think you still get a Chinese knock off servo motor. Not saying that is a bad thing if budgets are a concern but just don't fool yourself into thinking the components are equals. 

[cardudenc 151]

i was hoping to hear from someone that had used or seen both in action. I'm looking at a CG-60sl . I will look and see if this model does that. which model does he have? I have noticed software is almost like the ford / chevy opinion. I have both. vinyl master that came with my cutter and scalps 4. I started with VM so somethings seem easier in it, then it seems on some stuff I get a lot better cut using scalps. so I use scalps more.  @Primal Decals is the 1 that started teaching me on scalps. he designs most of his stuff in illustrator, then cuts in scalps. he also has a titan 2 and is pleased with the machine. I noticed the saga was the same machine.

I'm looking to upgrade to a servo cutter, mine is cutting so no real rush. I'm not going to jump in as I did with my 1st cutter without doing my homework and talking to people that have used the cutters I'm interested in. don't get me wrong, my SC has served its purpose. and its not a terrible cutter. noisy ! but it does the job. It was mainly purchased so a newbie could do his business sign. and to let the cutter pay for its self. to this day I still haven't tried to cut a design in 2 pieces , and really haven't cut anything bigger than 36" since my sign

wildgoose, that's what I figured. can almost buy 2 titan 2s for the cost of a roland.

 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

just putting it out there - the majority of the old timers seem to gravitate to graphtecs - check out on all the forums - graphtec it the favorite by far.  I am sure a mamaki would be a great machine too - we have a couple of people on here that swear by theirs - but when you look at the cutting population as a whole graphtec has a big lead and people like myself had had several over the years.  I had a titan2  about 3-4 roland cutters and at least 7-8 graphtecs over the years (I used to buy and resell them when people wanted to get rid of equipment cheap

 

[Vitaman 27]

I'm not really sure which Mimaki my buddy uses, but it's a few years old.  It is huge compared to my Saga/Titan.  It does have a full color LCD touch screen, if that helps.  As these other guys have said, Graphtec and Roland are the most used mainstream cutters, which would make finding parts, and more importantly, support for the cutter a lot easier.  Can't go wrong with either brand, and if you look around there are re-badged Graphtecs to be had cheaper.

It all depends on how much certain features are worth to you I guess.  I thought I needed ARMS cutting when I bought mine, and have used it maybe 3 times, and those were basically just experiments.  I have yet to make a single cent from the ARMS feature in the past 3 or so years.  Looking back on it, I would have rather spent that money on a wider cutter without ARMS.  I'm sure you will appreciate the Servo motor no matter which one you decide on. 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

one thing to add to Vitaman post - the rebranded graphtecs are cheaper but the graphtec drivers and programs will NOT work with them as the have a proprietary chipset in them to force support thru the company that private labels them and they almost never have arms (not a huge deal for most as vitaman had said) and it prohibitively expensive to add later as there is more than the mainboard and sensors to add  it is never worth updating later

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

A little search of my own on the model you stated above,,,the user manual has a copyright date of 2006, not sure if that owner told you how old the vinyl cutter was..So you might want to keep that in mind,   You didn't mention how much this cutter was, So I hope it is a reasonable price.  You can do a search yourself for the user manual..   And what ever cutter you get,  make sure it has a stand.. You will regret no stand. 

[Jburns 239]

I think the mimaki's are nice machines - BUT the support here is much better for Roland or Graphtec- parts, blades, rollers, tech support-.

I would go Roland or graphtec and be done with it. 

[cardudenc 151]

as I was researching the mimaki I followed a link and found 1 of the rebadged or whatever graphtecs, 1st time I saw that. 1 is on ebay now for around 400, also found a lynx which seemed to also be a servo cutter for that price. def those prices look good, but I definitely will be waiting and getting exactly what I want this time, if I ever figure out what it is I want. lol. I keep playing with the idea of buying something inexpensive in the 28" size to use mobile or take to the house that would get very lil use. but there if I need it. actually called on a SC on cl for $100 a couple weeks ago. and it seems I'm like a few others on here, have a hobby or business and buy, sell or trade equipment and such . with other things ive always just done that till I got whatever I was looking for.

In the original owners manual with the mimaki cutter is his purchase receipt along with all the shipping info from when he ordered it. I don't rem exactly when he purchased it right now. I was originally looking at it in dec I think.

being a newbie from this post I learned another new thing." tangential cutting" never saw this mentioned before or just over looked it. so I do believe this should be an option for my upgrade. that's 1 of the great things about this forum. I almost learn something new every time I get on.  but really no more than I'm doing and my skill set this SC should last me forever. lol.I have definitely started pushing this side of our business more, even ran a few ads.  its just big and noisy. . wasn't ever supposed to be out in the store ft. was setting up a work area in the back room.  but right now I'm setting up a small workspace up ft. makes it easier for me to help the wife watch over the store. so something in that size and less noise would be awesome. that's the reason I keep thinking about grabbing something like this cutter I'm asking about now versus waiting.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

There are just a very few true tangential cutter builders out there. Like everything else there is an up and a down side. Upside is they will cut seriously thick stuff as well as tiny due to "steering" the blade. Downside is a much more complex cutting head which equals higher cost and potential wear items. I know for sure that Summa builds one and I believe there are some Gerber cutters that are true tangential too and evidently Mimaki.  Don't know if Roland or Graphtec mess with them. I looked at one when I bought my Summa and it was another 3K or so to get their tangential machine. Interesting thing is they will run in tangential mode or you can insert a regular blade holder and run them as a drag knife. That's what made me realize that true tangential is not the "End All' and actually not even a great choice for regular cutting. I think they run slower in that mode although I don't cut all that fast anyhow. If I ever wear out my current machine I might spring for a Tangential next time just because I'm weird that way. 

Good luck in your search. I know it can be a long process with little to go on sometimes. I would try to hit a trade show if you can and you can see some running and get a better feel for what's what. 

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

This is what the Graphtec FC7000-Mk2  and newer FC cutters  have.    And the newer CE 6000  Graphtecs do also.

SOPHISTICATED TANGENTIAL EMULATION OVERCUTS THE OLD-FASHIONED MECHANCAL TANGENTIAL SYSTEMS 

When the Tangential Control mode is engaged, the FC7000MK2 out-cuts the mechanical tangential system both in speed and output quality by precisely and intelligently controlling the blade rotation. The on-board tool height sensor detects the blade tip's landing on the media surface, then intelligently and precisely aligns the blade rotation for the following cutting operation, all in a fraction of a microsecond. 

Graphtec's proprietary technology allows this sophisticated feature to completely eliminate distorted, rounded, or lifted corners - even when highly intricate design cutting is required on 2 mil. vinyl film or up to 50 mil. sandblast rubber. This innovative and high precision system architecture is what enables the FC7000MK2 to cut text strings as small as 1/16" on vinyl. There is no other cutter/plotter on the market that can match the FC7000MK2 series' unsurpassed precision and built-in intelligence.

[cardudenc 151]

looking up the Graphtec FC7000-Mk2  google pulled a us cutter ad $2484  I guess isn't bad if they used to add 3k. and I'm sure part of the issue I was thinking this would cure, prob. isn't an issue with a higher end cutter. with the sc on some designs ive had lifted corners and issues similar. just weighing it all out. so it looks like if I spend $800  I can have a servo titan here, double it and its a Graphtec ce6000 , triple it and its a FC7000.

I also noticed US cutter now offer Graphtec CE6000-60 and a CE6000-60 plus   whats the difference

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

I bought my Graphtec  FC7000 MK2-75  (30")  new in Feb 2008  Shipped from a warehouse in Indy.  Company is out of Kansas,, NEVER have I ever had a problem with it.. Cut almost every day... I found the receipt,  The cutter was $2795,  plus $90 shipping  Total $2885.00. 3 Year warranty.  That sure seemed like a big investment to me back then, But it paid for it'self pretty fast. I pulled the trigger on it and have never regretted it. And the 30" width was perfect for me.  No vinyl waste,  Cut right the first time.. I don't have to fine tune anything on it..Just change the force and speed once in a while. And I do that right from my computer.   I don't change anything on my cutter directly.   I think Wildgoose said that he looked at the Graphtecs  FC and they were much higher,   I think I got a great deal on mine. It doesn't say on the invoice it is a MK2,  but it is.  I bought mine before I ever heard of USCutter.   Check around and see who can offer the best  deals. 

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

Guessing the Ce6000 Plus is maybe adding that dust cover at the bottom of the page for $100

Lifted vinyl could be too much blade exposed. 

[cardudenc 151]

went back to that us cutter link and it showed the fc was unavailable on there.

yep u could be right on the plus.

that is possible, but it doesn't happen unless its a small or very detail cut. and I set up my blade using the cutting thru sticky note pad method. and I barely have an imprint on backing paper

I just watched a video on the 6000 Graphtec and of course you mentioned the new 1s had tangential cut. but I don't see that in us cutters ad. also doing google search on tangential cutting lead to several post on here. most were older, I guess when it first came out.

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

Just read the user manual for the Graphtecs, you can see many features that are not listed.  

This has been posted for years, too many times to count. Use the actual vinyl that you will be cutting. And you should just barely see or feel the blade tip out of the blade holder.

To start with, you should set your blade depth correctly, by taking the blade holder out of the machine, and firmly cut across a piece of scrap vinyl, you will be cutting. You should only be cutting the vinyl and barely a mark on wax paper backing, Adjust blade to get there, Then put the blade holder back in machine, and use the force of the machine to get there, same results, only cutting the vinyl and barely a mark in wax paper backing.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

The Graphtec's do have the emulation mode that would help if needed as Skeeter posted. Here is a screenshot of a manual that helps explain how they accomplish this. The difference from emulation and actual tangential is that the emulation version lifts the blade then touches the point of the blade down a little before the actual corner on it's way back into the cut to effectively spin the blade to the correct angle as it starts the other direction.  Looks from the screenshot like the Graphtec has two options to choose from. One evidently figured out where acute angles are within the cut and uses the process there to help cut better corners the other just does it at the start and end of the line. My summa has emulation and I think it only does the start and end of the line. 

True tangential  cutters have a notch on the top of the blade and a little motor that turns the blade during the cut rather than using the drag force and blade castor. 

[cardudenc 151]

if not mistaken I also checked my blade depth on a piece of vinyl. been awhile now so I don't rem. but more than likely if the methods were posted on here , I tried it. lol. I get most my info from the help of everyone on here and my go to guy, @Primal Decals. he fills in the blanks or just whatever I don't understand.

this is def not something a non computer guy should get into. lol.. from just being able to surf the net, and send emails to this is a huge learning curve. I couldn't have done it without the help from all on this forum. But I still have so much to learn on just using a computer, then add graphics and the cutter.  I enjoy learning, I feel if you don't learn something daily , your backing up.

I'm going to check his receipt again from when he ordered it , and see what his bottom $ is for the mimaki , but after this post I think I better off waiting and getting a new machine with whatever the new options are at this time

[Primal Decals 621]

Is the TANGENTIAL EMULATION  Really necessary in a cutter .  I have never heard of it before until now ,My cutter cuts flawless with out it ,So to me ,it seems like a huge waste to get a cutter with this feature, But what do i know lol.. Im still learning more all the time like now... 

 

@cardudenc  --

As for what the guy paid for it ,,,,,   That doesnt matter, It all comes down to what he wants for it for a reasonable price ... Its used and it doesnt matter how little he said he might of used it . He could of had it for a month and pushed hundreds of yards thru it,  In the end its used, with no warranty, i would think you cant transfer a warranty , So if you buy it and a couple weeks later some freak of nature thing goes wrong ,your out more money to fix it or replace it.........To this day i will stand by my titan 2 without the Tangential Emulation sexual body part lol..

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

Actually I have never used it...(TANGENTIAL EMULATION).  Maybe I will just for kicks soon....  Now some people think a Refine MH series cuts flawless,  until they put servo motor cutter  product beside it. I guess you would have to put a product cut with TANGENTIAL EMULATION beside your Titan product to compare. 

I think it would probably show a bigger difference in the thicker materials, not just cutting  sign vinyl.   Like this: 50 mil. sandblast rubber

[cardudenc 151]

I guess I should've explained that, I think he paid $1600 -$1800 , I'm just wanting to look at the receipt for the date it was ordered.  MZ SKEETER mentioned earlier how old the model she found was. seemed this 1 wasn't that old, but of course I have the memory of a 100 yr old. lol. and I cant rem the price he ended up listing it for. but with this guy I do believe the usage story.  now when this 1 came up last yr I also found a used summa and seems like a roland on cl both seemed priced reasonable. $500-$600 but was a older sign shop equipment and even in the pics could tell were well used. and that's about where I would have to be to buy a nice used machine.

yep, ive noticed after researching. most have a machine that does tangential emulation or true cut have never used it. so with that coming from well experienced sign peeps, when would I ?

if I wouldn't have been treated as always and hung up the phone pissed off like  every time I call n that place. I would've order the titan 2 weeks ago. that opened the door to looking for different suppliers again. seems every time I get over it, reeled back in with sale prices its the same thing. not saying their a bad co. just saying for some reason I keep having a bad experience. all different issues. the last was over waiting on them to call me back as I was told.

 

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I'm with Skeeter. For normal work, no emulation mode or tangential needed. To me this is backed up by the fact that the Summa cutter that is tangential also has a drag knife mode for "regular" work and the fact that the Graphtec has to "turn on" the feature rather than be on all the time. 

I watched a vid several years back about the emulation mode on an FC and basically the blade has to stop and raise and reset a lot, you can even hear the up-down acton in the video. I can't find the one I watched or I'd link it. 

[cardudenc 151]

I watched a stahls video the other night. cant rem if he just talked about it or if it showed the cutter doing the cut

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

From the specs on the cutter you are looking it,  It does not have Optical eye SL model without optical eye   If that matters. 

Features

Low cost, high quality

FineCut software plug-in included

Manual sheet cut

LED display

1 year on-site warranty

Speeds up to 850mm per sec

Available with optical eye (print  from cut)

(without eye) SL model

(with eye) SR model (cut from print model)