Primal Decals

!!!!!!Back lit sign help!!!!!!!!

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I dont have a picture yet of the old sign ,but will upload it when i get home...So my customer that i have done work for before is wanting a new sign to match the design ive created for them..I have never done this type of sign work this before so im looking for help for you great experts lol.Its the white plastic that the lettering goes on and lights up at night, I was hoping the old sign was made using the translucent vinyl but its not,Its printed so now i have to find what this stuff is called and where i can get it, hopefully at a local hardware store or like home depot type store? And how does the translucent actually work when picking colors? I will be dealing with a color similar to Purple Red,Black and Possibly a Turquoise  color  as well using the oracal colors  as a reference . I have the color chart for the translucents and know i need to pick colors as close as posssible to my design,but is the colors actually going to be the color i pick or will there be a difference from daytime viewing versus when the lights come on at night from behind?  I hope i have given enough info ,Like i said this is a new adventure in doing this type of sign for me,But i am not afraid lol..Thank you in advanced Big Time..Dwayne

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The white plastic is called Polycarbonite.  usually 3/16" thickness.  it comes in rolls so you'll have to cut it down to the size you need.  Use a fine tooth blade in a skill saw.  Denco sales is where we get ours, but most sign substrate distributors sell it.  It's relatively inexpensive.  They sell it in 50"and 100" heights and then whatever length you need.  If the sign you are replacing is over 36" tall, you need to check the cabinet to make sure it allows for a hangar bar.  This prevents the polycarbonite from flexing too much due to the weight and height of itself.

As for the vinyl, yes use translucent vinyls.  if you are using cut vinyls I recommend 3M or oracal as you already said.  yes the color will change at night, best thing for you to do is get a color chart and then put the samples over light and you'll see what happens.

If you are going to print it, there are several methods but to do it correctly you need to print a layer of clear vinyl first, then a layer of white translucent.  This is so the color doesn't wash out when it's lit up.

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The current sign is inside of a metal frame case on top of the building front. It looks like a piece of thick white plexiglass.Kinda confused when you said rolls?

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it's possible it's acrylic.  usually the material is polycarbonite though.  The polycarbonite slides into a retainer that is part of a metal sign cabinet.  Polycarbonite is extremely flexible so when they ship it, it usually comes in a roll.

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Remove the retainer on one side of the sign and just slide the panel out.  What size is this?  24" x96"?

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Just now, FrznFire07 said:

Remove the retainer on one side of the sign and just slide the panel out.

Ya i seen that on the end when i got up there..I didnt think it would be sent etc in a roll... Thanks for the input.  Does this need to be bought from a special supplier or does like lowes or home depot carry this ? I have another sign out on the street that needs to be done as well..Thanks bud

 

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 I usually use Acrylic sheets because they are cheaper and said to resist sun yellow better. If the sign is down where someone can easily hit it then the ploycarbonite (AKA Lexan) might be a better choice. Do a little reading on the two, there is a lot of info out there. We too have Denco and Sun Supply up here in Idaho that stock both types in several different thicknesses and clear or white too. 

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as far as I know you need to purchase it from a supplier, but honestly your in SoCal, so there has to be a sign shop close to you that would sell you raw materials.

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Just now, Wildgoose said:

 I usually use Acrylic sheets because they are cheaper and said to resist sun yellow better. If the sign is down where someone can easily hit it then the ploycarbonite (AKA Lexan) might be a better choice. Do a little reading on the two, there is a lot of info out there. We too have Denco and Sun Supply up here in Idaho that stock both types in several different thicknesses and clear or white too. 

Acrylic is more brittle in the cold right?  I only ask because everything up here is polycarb but I know acrylic is more common in other parts of the country.

and you're definitely right about Polycarbonite yellowing, we actually cover our panels with white to prevent it.

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I live in nor cal. about 1 1/2 from oregon border.We have sign shops here but they rake everyone in the fire on cost because we have no local supplier on material for vinyl etc and they know it.Even with my resell license they still charge a ton,,thats why i got into this,,,Our closest largest town is 2 1/2 hours away...

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3 hours ago, FrznFire07 said:

Remove the retainer on one side of the sign and just slide the panel out.  What size is this?  24" x96"?

yes it is.

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2 hours ago, FrznFire07 said:

Acrylic is more brittle in the cold right?  I only ask because everything up here is polycarb but I know acrylic is more common in other parts of the country.

and you're definitely right about Polycarbonite yellowing, we actually cover our panels with white to prevent it.

Yeah acrylic is brittle even in warm temp. I just about ruined one last time I did one. I don't do a lot of them but have done a few, The suppliers here recommend acrylic unless they are down low. I actually got one of my jobs from a dentist who had vandalism that broke his from entry sign with a rock. Interestingly enough when I priced him out both options he still went back to acrylic because it was $100 cheaper. Has survived so far. 

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Now a dumb Question.....Is there any way to remove the printed ink from the old material .its in really great shape still.. And these sign are up off the ground on the edge of the roof about 9 feet on one and about 20 feet on the other..

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here is a preview of the design so far,Still waiting on the approval and possible changes..I have made suggestions and they are very clear that they want it a certain wayMOCKUP SIGN PREVIEW.jpg...So far the 1 boss is good ,the other will see it tomorrow.. @cardudenc

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I scraped off the old stuff on the other half of the dentist that I did (two sided) and was able to flip it over and use the back without it showing through. It was pretty much full coverage with some white lettering showing through though so not sure if yours would work out but it's worth a try. 

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Nice sign......cool. I will give it a try .

.Otherwise is it suggested to wrap the front with Trans white if needed? And of course i will be using the highest grade of Oracal 8800 10 yr Trans unless you think i can get away with lower grade with no issues?

I want to avoid sun yellow and issues so i will check out the acrylic for sure.And i will check out the material at a hardware store tomorrow to see where i can get it for back up or find someone who sells it close by,but i doubt it. Thank you .Will keep you all posted once i know the final direction and start busting everything out that was added on top of me for the  job..

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Like the new design, simple yet classy. One comment though the Diodes uses in the logo are not Light Emitting Diodes. Not something most people would noticed but an electrical engineer will. The symbol for an LED is the diode symbol with two little arrows pointing away from the triangle portion of the design.

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12 hours ago, Wildgoose said:

I scraped off the old stuff on the other half of the dentist that I did (two sided) and was able to flip it over and use the back without it showing through. It was pretty much full coverage with some white lettering showing through though so not sure if yours would work out but it's worth a try. 

Yea we reuse old litback panels all the time.  if it's a printed graphic it should be pretty easy to remove and the substrate should be in good shape since it's completely covered.  Acrylic or Polycarbonite last a really long time.

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2 hours ago, darcshadow said:

Like the new design, simple yet classy. One comment though the Diodes uses in the logo are not Light Emitting Diodes. Not something most people would noticed but an electrical engineer will. The symbol for an LED is the diode symbol with two little arrows pointing away from the triangle portion of the design.

Its funny you mention that. Cause the guy that chose that Diode is the electrical tech who builds all their stuff and he knows that lol..

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Update on the sign.

I pulled it down and the original sign company that did the job actually printed ink on top of the vinyl that was used and wrap the face of the sign to make it look new.And the Company who sold the sign years ago to the my customer said it was new .but come to find out it was old because when i removed the vinyl it had the old name from the previous owner lol..My customer was not really happy that "Signorama" here is who sold them the used sign as new.. So now i see there is partial ghosting in the sign and my concern is if i just put new translucent on will  the ghosting show more or should i put a layer of white trans and then put the new design over it? And will that cover the ghosting to prevent it from being seen. The Acrylic is actually only about 5-7 yrs old and looks real white still except where the old Previous owners name was..

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it depends on how bad the ghosting is whether or not you'll see it.  You can cover with white like you suggested, however that will dull the light just slightly since the light is passing thru another layer.  Also even though you're covering the old image with white, you'll see it most at night time when the sign is lit.  Best is usually to take the panel down hold it up to the sunlight and let the customer decide whether or not they can live with it.

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3 hours ago, FrznFire07 said:

it depends on how bad the ghosting is whether or not you'll see it.  You can cover with white like you suggested, however that will dull the light just slightly since the light is passing thru another layer.  Also even though you're covering the old image with white, you'll see it most at night time when the sign is lit.  Best is usually to take the panel down hold it up to the sunlight and let the customer decide whether or not they can live with it.

Thanks for the responses..Here is the finished job...

 

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