Printing window decals.

[mangekyousharingan 0]

Hi.

First of, forgive by bad english as it is not my 1st language.

Im completely new to printing, well, except for A4 paper  I am an engineering student with an eye for design, at least thats what people tell me.

I like designing things for some reason  I design webpages, gift cards, manuals, ads, brochures, signs, billboards, posters etc and I love it. Now I want to take it one step further and start to make som money but I have no idea how to start. I dont know what machines are used If anyone could help me out I would really appreciate it. I tried googling it and came over huge machines, bigger than my apartment that costs 200K+ and lost all hope but then I found something called: Epson Stylus Pro 9450. Its quite affordable, I can get a used one for about 1K. Is this the right printer for me? My main priority is to print store window decals/logo. Will this machine print on transparent adhesive paper? Do I need some special ink to counter rain and UV damage? 

 

Thanks

 

[dcbevins 340]

Short answer, this printer is not right if you want to print uv resistant outdoor signage.  

Longer answer, you pretty much need eco-solvent or solvent ink printers for uv  and weather resistance.  One entry level model of these is the Roland VersaStudio BN-20 at around 9k.  It is 20", which is in some regards small, as other printers in this realm are 24", 30", 54" and 64".  There are some knock off ones that are out there, that are cheaper, but dear god you don't want to skimp on quality and support here.

The printer must be designed to deliver these specialty inks, it is not a matter of just switching inks.  HORROR stories abound of failed and clogged inkjets with the wrong inks.  Switching ink types is a monster headache, requiring flushing the whole system, wasting ink that costs more than fine champagne.  Most pick an ink type and never run another through their printers.

The inkjet printer you listed, is I think a 24" model.  It can make nice photo prints.  There IS the possibility with lamination, the prints could be made more uv and weather resistant. 

Typical eco-solvent printers have media available with adhesive backing.  I am not sure you could find adhesive backing in large sizes for normal inkjet printers.  So if you did laminate, you would have to apply some adhesive to get it to stick.  Most of these type printers are print/cut machines.  They cut out the design as well as printing, which is something a normal inkjet can not do.  Some shops use an eco-solvet printer to print and have a vinyl cutter to cut out the design.  Care should be taken that the two models are compatible going this route. Throw in a lamination step to complicate it all.

This is a difficult endeavour to run out of an apartment.  Most shops have dedicated space.   Some have garage bays to deal with vehicles.  Signage creation is often not a specialty, but one gun in an arsenal of output capabilities.  An eco-solvent printer in such a shop will do the window deals, but it will also do vehicle decals and wraps, banners, stickers, thirts, sandblasting templets, and more.  This makes it difficult for do it at home types to compete with specialty shops with lots of investment, and more importantly lots of experience.  

Most people in here are using vinyl cutters, which are not printers.  They do not print ink, they cut precolored rolls of adhesive vinyl, to make lettering and logos and such.  The more colors your design has, the more difficulty in producing a product with these machines.  An entry model of a vinyl cutter can be had for under 1k, with the nicer ones higher.  A one man vinyl cutter operation can sometimes compete with the larger shops, if there is a demand for such in your area.  The key here is experience.  It is difficult to hit the ground running with a vinyl cutter, as with large format specialty printers.  Count on a year with the equipment before your comfortable.  If you have no computer graphic design experience, specifically with vector graphics, count on another 6-12 months.

[mangekyousharingan 0]

2 hours ago, dcbevins said:

Short answer, this printer is not right if you want to print uv resistant outdoor signage.  

Longer answer, you pretty much need eco-solvent or solvent ink printers for uv  and weather resistance.  One entry level model of these is the Roland VersaStudio BN-20 at around 9k.  It is 20", which is in some regards small, as other printers in this realm are 24", 30", 54" and 64".  There are some knock off ones that are out there, that are cheaper, but dear god you don't want to skimp on quality and support here.

The printer must be designed to deliver these specialty inks, it is not a matter of just switching inks.  HORROR stories abound of failed and clogged inkjets with the wrong inks.  Switching ink types is a monster headache, requiring flushing the whole system, wasting ink that costs more than fine champagne.  Most pick an ink type and never run another through their printers.

The inkjet printer you listed, is I think a 24" model.  It can make nice photo prints.  There IS the possibility with lamination, the prints could be made more uv and weather resistant. 

Typical eco-solvent printers have media available with adhesive backing.  I am not sure you could find adhesive backing in large sizes for normal inkjet printers.  So if you did laminate, you would have to apply some adhesive to get it to stick.  Most of these type printers are print/cut machines.  They cut out the design as well as printing, which is something a normal inkjet can not do.  Some shops use an eco-solvet printer to print and have a vinyl cutter to cut out the design.  Care should be taken that the two models are compatible going this route. Throw in a lamination step to complicate it all.

This is a difficult endeavour to run out of an apartment.  Most shops have dedicated space.   Some have garage bays to deal with vehicles.  Signage creation is often not a specialty, but one gun in an arsenal of output capabilities.  An eco-solvent printer in such a shop will do the window deals, but it will also do vehicle decals and wraps, banners, stickers, thirts, sandblasting templets, and more.  This makes it difficult for do it at home types to compete with specialty shops with lots of investment, and more importantly lots of experience.  

Most people in here are using vinyl cutters, which are not printers.  They do not print ink, they cut precolored rolls of adhesive vinyl, to make lettering and logos and such.  The more colors your design has, the more difficulty in producing a product with these machines.  An entry model of a vinyl cutter can be had for under 1k, with the nicer ones higher.  A one man vinyl cutter operation can sometimes compete with the larger shops, if there is a demand for such in your area.  The key here is experience.  It is difficult to hit the ground running with a vinyl cutter, as with large format specialty printers.  Count on a year with the equipment before your comfortable.  If you have no computer graphic design experience, specifically with vector graphics, count on another 6-12 months.

Thank you David. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. As you said it is impossible for me to compete with speciality shops with lots of investment and the right machines and tools. I watched a few videos on how vinyl cutters work and it is definitely something I would use but not at the moment. Right now I need to be able to print out a complete photographic picture made with for instance photoshop and turn it into a window sticker. I take it that you are quite experienced in this field, should I start with the printer I mentioned and use lamination? What do you recommend me doing?

Edit: Something just came to my mind. Is it possible to transparent paper that is self adhesive on both sides to stick it on the printed paper and stick it to the window from inside the store? Would that not protect it against UV damage?

[dcbevins 340]

There is a material called Window Cling or Static Cling that might do what your asking.  Again it is usually for ecosolvent printers.

What a great many do, especially people with only a vinyl cutter when needing printing, is out-source.  Instead of trying to buy a printer you need, find someone that will print for you.  You can be the middle man in the transaction and still make some profit.

[mangekyousharingan 0]

On 23.2.2017 at 7:16 AM, dcbevins said:

There is a material called Window Cling or Static Cling that might do what your asking.  Again it is usually for ecosolvent printers.

What a great many do, especially people with only a vinyl cutter when needing printing, is out-source.  Instead of trying to buy a printer you need, find someone that will print for you.  You can be the middle man in the transaction and still make some profit.

Thank you David, I will go for a vinyl cutter but there are so many different brands and technologies, I have no idea how it works. I think some are automatic some are manual, some have lasers and servo, step motor etc. Others dont? Contour cutting? Could you recommend me a good beginners machine? Nothing advanced but easy to operate, not something I end up throwing away and give up on vinyl cutting. Price range is around 1K

Something to add, I saw some videos about machines that prints on vinyl and then cuts it, are those the expensive ones you were talking about?

Alternatively is it not possible to buy a cheap medium sized printer, print a logo on vinyl and use a vinyl cutter to cut out the printed logo?

 
Thanks again

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

2 hours ago, mangekyousharingan said:

Thank you David, I will go for a vinyl cutter but there are so many different brands and technologies, I have no idea how it works. I think some are automatic some are manual, some have lasers and servo, step motor etc. Others dont? Contour cutting? Could you recommend me a good beginners machine? Nothing advanced but easy to operate, not something I end up throwing away and give up on vinyl cutting. Price range is around 1K

Something to add, I saw some videos about machines that prints on vinyl and then cuts it, are those the expensive ones you were talking about?

Alternatively is it not possible to buy a cheap medium sized printer, print a logo on vinyl and use a vinyl cutter to cut out the printed logo?

 
Thanks again

titan2 gets you into a servo motor for your budget  - solid machine with a true usb chipset inside (not like the emulation chipset in the value cutters) 

if you want to print to a clear substrate then a printer with a white ink option is needed so the colors don't look washed out - this again is a specialty area and the white ink is more expensive and has a greater tendency to clog heads when left unused for even short periods of time.  once a solvent head clogs it is , in my personal experience with owning 3 solvent printers, impossible to revive the head and will need to replace each head at a cost of between $700 to $2400 depending on which head your printer takes.


cheap printer cutter is the roland bn-20n for around $8500.   there are people that print with a desktop printer on specially coated vinyl made to accept that ink - but it has a layer sprayed on it to allow the pigment ink to adhere and that is what fails.  the only ethical way to sell decals for outdoor that will last  to paying customers is to use a eco solvent, latex or thermo resin printer and those are in the thousands of dollars.

I would visit a trade show in Norway to learn about the equipment before purchasing  - the knowledge you gain there will be invaluable

[dcbevins 340]

Recommendations on cutters are hard.  Everyone has different budgets and skills levels.  Even pro's at this, are not in the habit of trying every cutter on the market.  They only try a few models in their lifetime.

The price of the cutter is not your only start up cost.  The vinyl materials must be considered.  You need a roll, (rolls are better than sheets I feel,) for each color. Black, white and red are staple colors.  You need transfer tape to move the design from the vinyl to a substrate, (like corrugated plastic or aluminum, or glass.)

You need squeegee tools to work with the transfer tape, cleaning products to clean your substrate, tweezers and blades for weeding, tables to lay it all out and assemble, brightly lite work areas, amongst other miscellaneous things.

Sometimes the cutter provides cutting software.  It can vary in capabilities.  In the end you need Vector based graphics software and proficiency.  It helps to have vector software with auto-trace abilities.  These abilities won't always carry you all the way through, requiring some skill in cleaning up a graphic.

If you are going to use heat transfer vinyl say for tshirts or hats, you need a heat press.

My recommendation for someone with no experience with a vinyl cutter would be not to buy one.  Get at least a smidgen of experience first.  Dakotagrafx suggested a trade show. That could be enough experience, if you found someone there willing to do a full demonstration.  Alternately, if you can find someone near you willing to let you hang around for a few days in their shop or work space, it would be worthwhile pre-purchase move.

A hobby cutter would give you some experience.  They are on the cheap side, not all that versatile, have small cutting areas, but let you get your feet wet and see if it a road you want.  I would call Silhouette and Cricut hobby cutters.  

https://shop.cricut.com/en_us?gclid=Cj0KEQiAlsrFBRCAxcCB54XElLEBEiQA_ei0DPn5u7PVOVinTJzjQJFi4jmu2QcxcCrLC-XU_hK6iJIaAm8t8P8HAQ

https://www.silhouetteamerica.com

Though, if it is a road you want and you started on a hobby cutter, you might wish you hadn't latter.