hmmmm within days I should have a roland sp 300v for sale . . . .

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

need to do  a switch and make sure everything is copacetic but it is looking promising.
will be located in coldwater mi 

[mark-s 1,126]

What are you upgrading to?

 

mark-s

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

300i mark

[tomk 19]

Just curious, do you/will you use the Roland SP-300i for outdoor vinyl work, and if so, do you laminate it or do you get a long lasting outdoor product without it?

 

I'm asking because I am looking to replace an old Gerber Edge, and have been looking at the Summa DC5sx, as I don't know much about the non thermal printers.  This Roland looks interesting, no fumes (?), and can be used in a small hope shop from what I am reading on it.

 

I was also looking at the HP Latex 110, but rather like the idea of a print/cut unit.

 

Yes, I'm still pretty new to this as you can tell.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

I would not say no fumes but less fumes ,  unlaminated I have had decals on by side windows of the old truck for 3 years and looked like new  - if near a door handle or will get wear then always lam.  I am guessing only 30 percent of what I do is laminated cause what the use is just doesn't call for it

had the kids over tonight and got them switched out - the one kink is the sp300i won't load on either wind 7 permium home so far has only loaded on the win 7 professional computer complicating the switch over.   the 300v worked with a usb cable which i liked and the 300i only works thru network cable.  more updates I am sure.

latex is a great no odor option if you want a separate print and cut option - I personally got too used to having one machine do it all.  if I was going all day every day I can see where a separate print and cut option would be nice but for what I do working from home having the one machine for both up stairs works great and keep the graphtec in the basement shop for the cut stuff

[tomk 19]

Thanks for the quick reply!  Have you used thermals like Gerber or Summa before?  Just curious if you compared them to the inkjet of the Roland and what your pros/cons were.

 

I was so close to pulling the trigger on the dc5sx, you got me thinking now...grrrrrrrrr.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

the only thermos I used was the ones at the prison for making id cards - nothing in decals, I believe the cost per sq inch is quite a bit higher

[OWJones 1,981]

need to do  a switch and make sure everything is copacetic but it is looking promising.

will be located in coldwater mi 

[tomk 19]

the only thermos I used was the ones at the prison for making id cards - nothing in decals, I believe the cost per sq inch is quite a bit higher

 

Another quick (silly?) question for ya...

 

Do you have to use special vinyl for the inkjet printers?  Can I continue to use Oracal 651 and 5300/5500 reflective or so I have to change the type/brand of vinyl I am using if I go inkjet?

 

The Edge/FX prints on anything basically, assuming the Summa would be the same.

 

Tom

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

Another quick (silly?) question for ya...

 

Do you have to use special vinyl for the inkjet printers?  Can I continue to use Oracal 651 and 5300/5500 reflective or so I have to change the type/brand of vinyl I am using if I go inkjet?

 

The Edge/FX prints on anything basically, assuming the Summa would be the same.

 

Tom

water based inkjet printers have to use a special coated vinyl - eco solvent printers will print on vinyl like 651 but I always use the oracal or 3m products made for solvent printing

[tomk 19]

water based inkjet printers have to use a special coated vinyl - eco solvent printers will print on vinyl like 651 but I always use the oracal or 3m products made for solvent printing

 

I see the solvent vinyls are all white.  What do you do in the case where someone orders an all yellow hazard sign with black lettering?  On the thermal's, I just use yellow 651 with black foils.  How would you do this with the inkjet printers?

 

Thanks!

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

we print on white so in your case we would print the yellow and black parts

[tomk 19]

we print on white so in your case we would print the yellow and black parts

Ah crap, yea I think I'll be sticking with the Thermal's, DC5sx it is I guess.

[KYSIGN 233]

Look at the foil size on the DC5 series. It's small and can cause a seam on larger decals. I was about to buy one but changed my mind after reading about it.

[tomk 19]

Look at the foil size on the DC5 series. It's small and can cause a seam on larger decals. I was about to buy one but changed my mind after reading about it.

 

Will look into that.  What did you end up going with after you passed on the DC5?

 

Tom

[KYSIGN 233]

The Summa foil is only 100mm wide while Gerber is 300mm. So design over 3.9 inches tall will have a seam on the Summa. The seam may not be visible every print but it seems like a common complaint and really turned me off on the whole deal.

[KYSIGN 233]

I'm still looking at my options. The low maintenance/upkeep on a thermal was the main reason I considered getting into the print cut side of things. I don't think I want to deal with the upkeep on a solvent printer and my volume would be low. I don't want a $25,000 paper weight.

[tomk 19]

I'm still looking at my options. The low maintenance/upkeep on a thermal was the main reason I considered getting into the print cut side of things. I don't think I want to deal with the upkeep on a solvent printer and my volume would be low. I don't want a $25,000 paper weight.

 

That was another concern too, all the thermal guys are like solvents are lots of maintenance and such.  However, reading the Roland sales material (I know I know), it appears that really isn't a huge problem with the newer models, but I have never used the inkjets before.

 

@dakotagrafx, is there a ton of work and waste with the Roland inkjets?  The Gerber and Summa reps are saying all sorts of bad things about the inkjets, time to warm up, leaky heads, if you don't print (for example, on vacation), you have to toss the ink out because it sat too long, etc etc etc.

 

 

 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

That was another concern too, all the thermal guys are like solvents are lots of maintenance and such. However, reading the Roland sales material (I know I know), it appears that really isn't a huge problem with the newer models, but I have never used the inkjets before.

@dakotagrafx, is there a ton of work and waste with the Roland inkjets? The Gerber and Summa reps are saying all sorts of bad things about the inkjets, time to warm up, leaky heads, if you don't print (for example, on vacation), you have to toss the ink out because it sat too long, etc etc etc.

weekly manual cleaning of heads and wipers is the biggest thing - it does a daily clean about 3 times a day on its own. new one is just like the old one in that reguard

[tomk 19]

weekly manual cleaning of heads and wipers is the biggest thing - it does a daily clean about 3 times a day on its own. new one is just like the old one in that reguard

 

Scott, are you happy with the contour cutting of the Rolands?  The Summa rep I talked to today said good things about Rolands Inkject printing, but trash talked the hell out of them and told me to make sure I budget for a laminator (everything outside should be laminated with inkjets) and more surprisingly said their contour cutting was basically garbage.  

 

I'm sure some of this was typical vendor vs vendor, but wanted your feedback since you use them to cut as well.

 

Thanks!

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

I have been very happy with it as I am now on my 3rd roland printer - - -  contour has been fine and anything on side or back windows I tend not to laminate if there is nothing rubbing against the printer - I had a print on the truck I just sold with my business logo that was 3 years old when I removed it and looked like the day I put it on without lam.  trick is to use factory ink - he must be confusing with aqueous printing and even his foil prints will need lam if in a wear area.  I actually buy some foil printed from a couple forum members when I want black print on shiny chrome.   I am still curious how the foils handle gradients and lets compare print cost.  my  position is there is a place fore several kinds of printers but the eco solvent fits me real well.  if I wanted a separate printer and cutter I would consider latex  but I like my all in one print cut solution - I have seen no other cutter fine registration marks as easy as a roland.  now I have to qualify that with I have never used a summa, but lots and lots of other cutters - and prefer a graphtec for cutting vinyl (I have just never had a fun time trying to get the graphtec to find registration marks quickly and easily - 

[tomk 19]

Scott, thanks for your continued feedback, I really appreciate it!

 

Funny you mention Latex, I've added the the HP 110 and a Graphtec CE6000-120 to my list of considerations.  This combo is actually cheaper than the Roland VS-300i by about 3k (not including the 1500 bucks the Roland dealers want for install and "training"), and slightly more expensive than the SP-300i by about 1k.  Looks like they both support the same Orajet vinyl from what I've read.

 

I'm not sure on the operational cost differences between the Roland and HP over time, still reading about that.  If you believe the Roland hype, they are way cheaper than Latex.  The folks at signs101 say it is hogwash and love Latex, and Roland is just desperate since they are losing market share to latex.

 

Way too many decisions...and none of these pricks want to move off list price either, amazing, I hate paying list price for anything!

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

uscutter had a pretty good sale not long ago on the latex machines ( not sure if that is going still or not) - I have a core group of about 20-25 friends in the business and of the printers not one latex in the group that i know of - all are roland like me  - but that is why they make different machines so they fit different needs or perceived needs.    I do have  a friend that is in the final 3 of the 3m wrap challenge in ca that is going on right now and he loves latex - doesn't own a printer but loves installing latex better for wraps.  now very little of my business is wraps so that part doesn't matter to me.  I do have very cost conscious customers that sometime it is harder to instill the value of oem inks that I insist on using.  my first printer used aftermarket inks and working from home the fumes were 10 times worse than oem and the clogged nozzles were much worse - so the machine I am selling and the new one are strictly oem Roland ink

[tomk 19]

Ok, looks like Roland is going to lose another potential sale to HP Latex...

 

I can get the HP 110 or 310 with Graphtec FC8600-130 Plotter for cheaper then Roland will do for the VS-540i, and slightly more expensive than the VS-300i.  If I "drop down" to the HP 110 and same plotter, I'm still cheaper than the Roland SP-540i.

 

And this is talking to 2 different Roland dealers, they just don't care about moving off of list price, nice to be Roland I guess.

 

All of this still cheaper than a Gerber Edge FX upgrade still, if anyone wonders why Gerber will be getting out of the print business, here's your answer.

 

And Summa, as soon as I asked for gradient samples, they stopped responding to me.

 

Have to make a decision tomorrow, now the tough part is figuring out which HP model to go with, the cost delta between the 110 and 310 is pretty minimal.

 

Exciting stuff!

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

see - researching and not relying on a salesman is key - you learn a lot more about the right things and what fits your specific needs.    as for roland not coming off the list price I think there is a reason they don't have to.  they have a reputation of being rock solid and parts being available for a long time.   
glad you found your fit!

I ordered the encoder strip and sensor the last winter and got it right in for the sp300v direct from a roland authorized repair center and had it in a couple of days (even though they are available thru third party as after market I keep mine all original  - hopefully someone can share similar news on a HP that is over a year old