Newbie Questions!! - Decal cutting/printing

[zackherman 0]

Hey guys! First time poster..

 

I am looking to start making laptop decals. Just a hobby / business that I would love to start up!

 

I was hoping some of you could point me in the right direction, give me some pointers, etc.. I haven't purchased anything, but from what I read, I understand you shouldn't go cheap. I see good things about the Graphtec 24" Cutter.

So some questions also.

 

1) When I buy laptop decals, they come on a sheet that you peel it off of. Is this sheet just something the maker put the decal on or is that somehow not cut during the cutting process? Sorry thats a dumb question probably.

 

2) For the color decals, how is that printed? I sort if get that the solid color (black typically) are just cut from something like this http://www.uscutter.com/ORACAL-631-Exhibition-Cal-Vinyl-24-x-10-Yard-Roll right?

Thanks so much guys,

 

Zack

[dcbevins 340]

YouTube is great for getting an overview.  Just search for vinyl decals.  

 

Something along these lines:

 

 

Vinyl cutting is not a printing process.  You maybe thinking of a print/cut machine combo which are much more costly.

 

Here is a small one:  http://www.rolanddga.com/products/printcut/bn/

[OWJones 1,981]

If you're wanting to get into printing laptop skins/decals, I'm going to suggest you take a step back and seriously reconsider that as a business plan.

 

The reason being, that the initial investment to get started in something like this is going to be well in excess of $10,000 - probably more like $15,000.  The types of printers that are used to print on vinyl are not cheap to purchase, operate or maintain, plus in addition to the printer you would need a cutter with optical alignment system (and the Graphtec is an excellent choice) and a laminator and then all the materials to get up and running.

 

Then after you've invested all that money and go to try and make a profit, you'll find that there are already dedicated companies out there who offer massive selections of laptop skins/decals at prices that would be difficult for you to compete with.   I just checked on ebay and found printed 14" laptop skins starting as low as $3.85 each and that includes shipping and handling.

 

Ask the pros on here how much of a profit there is on printing, laminating and shipping a 14" laptop skin for $3.85.

[slice&dice 2,450]

Zack, whazzup?

 

Before you go any further, consider this ---- the plotters/cutters are designed to slice&dice the vinyl by following a vector path (a blade moves along 'nodes' to trace a design using a series of points, like a super connect-the-dots program)

 

This is the type of design that a cutter handles --

 

A $400 cutter will have no problem with stuff like that.

[suz1234 24]

I'm fairly new too but here is what I have experienced...After watching a lot of Utube videos and asking a lot of questions, I purchased a used Roland GX-24 which is an excellent machine that I have used for race car numbers mostly, but found that I was wanting to cut smaller projects.  Then I decided to try a Silhouette Cameo for small decals up to 12".  The learning curve is like night and day for an older gal using the Cameo.  I just love it and find it satisfying to be able to use smaller scraps with very little waste.  It is a great machine to get started with a much lower investment to get your feet wet.  It is also much more portable if you want to travel for trade shows and cut on site decals.  I also use it for etching glasses and mugs I find at the dollar store.  You can also use it to cut paper, fabric, vinyl, or use a pen to make signs with.  It will also copy from your copy machine if you find a design not available in a vector.  It is a bit slower but I weed while it cuts.  The money I save on an expensive machine to start with helps me purchase more vinyl.  Cutting vinyl is VERY addicting!  Hope this helps!

Suzanne

[zackherman 0]

YouTube is great for getting an overview.  Just search for vinyl decals.  

 

Something along these lines:

 

 

Vinyl cutting is not a printing process.  You maybe thinking of a print/cut machine combo which are much more costly.

 

Here is a small one:  http://www.rolanddga.com/products/printcut/bn/

 

Great video! That helps a lot. Its crazy to me that the thing cuts juts the vinyl and leaves the paper it sticks to. Do I have that correct? 

 

If you're wanting to get into printing laptop skins/decals, I'm going to suggest you take a step back and seriously reconsider that as a business plan.

 

The reason being, that the initial investment to get started in something like this is going to be well in excess of $10,000 - probably more like $15,000.  The types of printers that are used to print on vinyl are not cheap to purchase, operate or maintain, plus in addition to the printer you would need a cutter with optical alignment system (and the Graphtec is an excellent choice) and a laminator and then all the materials to get up and running.

 

Then after you've invested all that money and go to try and make a profit, you'll find that there are already dedicated companies out there who offer massive selections of laptop skins/decals at prices that would be difficult for you to compete with.   I just checked on ebay and found printed 14" laptop skins starting as low as $3.85 each and that includes shipping and handling.

 

Ask the pros on here how much of a profit there is on printing, laminating and shipping a 14" laptop skin for $3.85.

 

From watching the video.. Where does laminating come in? I understand where you're coming from but if you can make those decals for .50 - 1.00 it could turn out big if you're able to sell a lot. It would also be a hobby.

 

Zack, whazzup?

 

Before you go any further, consider this ---- the plotters/cutters are designed to slice&dice the vinyl by following a vector path (a blade moves along 'nodes' to trace a design using a series of points, like a super connect-the-dots program)

 

This is the type of design that a cutter handles --

 

A $400 cutter will have no problem with stuff like that.

 

Awesome thanks for that info.

 

I'm fairly new too but here is what I have experienced...After watching a lot of Utube videos and asking a lot of questions, I purchased a used Roland GX-24 which is an excellent machine that I have used for race car numbers mostly, but found that I was wanting to cut smaller projects.  Then I decided to try a Silhouette Cameo for small decals up to 12".  The learning curve is like night and day for an older gal using the Cameo.  I just love it and find it satisfying to be able to use smaller scraps with very little waste.  It is a great machine to get started with a much lower investment to get your feet wet.  It is also much more portable if you want to travel for trade shows and cut on site decals.  I also use it for etching glasses and mugs I find at the dollar store.  You can also use it to cut paper, fabric, vinyl, or use a pen to make signs with.  It will also copy from your copy machine if you find a design not available in a vector.  It is a bit slower but I weed while it cuts.  The money I save on an expensive machine to start with helps me purchase more vinyl.  Cutting vinyl is VERY addicting!  Hope this helps!

Suzanne

 

Wow that's impressive! I didn't know it could do all that!

 

 

 

 

... so I understand that there is no printing involved when you do a solid color. You just purchase the color vinyl you want, and cut it out.

 

My follow up question, is for the color laptop decals, how are they able to do that. Like this one: http://www.amazon.com/LoveDecalHome-macbook-Macbook-sticker-partial/dp/B00F35JWC4/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1424383439&sr=1-2&keywords=macbook+decal

 

Thanks so much guys!

[slice&dice 2,450]

Zack,  Keep in mind that we're talking about cutters that use the same basic plotter technology from the 1960's (Hewlett Packard Graphic Language = HPGL)

 

The blade is extremely tiny and sharp, sitting in a holder that allows it to freely rotate 360* and zip through the vinyl, while leaving the backing paper intact. You remove (weed) what is unneeded (the parts that are not part of the design, including centers of letters). Then the APP TAPE (or transfer tape) goes over the design to hold it together so you can peel it away from the backing paper and affix it to whatever smooth surface you want. The vinyl is composed of pressure-sensitive-adhesive and you'll use a plastic squeegee to stick it down (and then peel away the app tape, leaving behind the decal).

 

I think of every job as having six steps ----

 

1. Interview with client (what does he want) -- make a Job Sheet

2. Design (and approval of proof)

3. Cut

4. Weed

5. Tape (app tape)

6. Apply to substrate

[zackherman 0]

Zack,  Keep in mind that we're talking about cutters that use the same basic plotter technology from the 1960's (Hewlett Packard Graphic Language = HPGL)

 

The blade is extremely tiny and sharp, sitting in a holder that allows it to freely rotate 360* and zip through the vinyl, while leaving the backing paper intact. You remove (weed) what is unneeded (the parts that are not part of the design, including centers of letters). Then the APP TAPE (or transfer tape) goes over the design to hold it together so you can peel it away from the backing paper and affix it to whatever smooth surface you want. The vinyl is composed of pressure-sensitive-adhesive and you'll use a plastic squeegee to stick it down (and then peel away the app tape, leaving behind the decal).

 

I think of every job as having six steps ----

 

1. Interview with client (what does he want) -- make a Job Sheet

2. Design (and approval of proof)

3. Cut

4. Weed

5. Tape (app tape)

6. Apply to substrate

 

Dude, thanks so much! This helps a lot especially you giving me some terms to hang on to, instead of saying "that sheet it sticks to" etc. 

 

So, if I am not applying the decal myself and shipping them off, would i just cut and weed? I've ordered some decals online to check out the quality and they just come what seems like, cut and weeded. Do they do any special step after that?

 

Also any chance to reply to the whole printing in color question?

[OWJones 1,981]

Laminating comes in when you're working with printed designs that will be subject to handling.  Without lamination, the printed design will eventually scratch and/or rub away, depending on how much handling there is - on something like a laptop skin/decal, you can count on there being a lot of handling.

 

In order to produce a laptop decal/skin like the one you linked from Amazon, requires the expenditures I detailed in my earlier post about full color printing and laminating.

[slice&dice 2,450]

Dude, thanks so much! This helps a lot especially you giving me some terms to hang on to, instead of saying "that sheet it sticks to" etc. 

 

So, if I am not applying the decal myself and shipping them off, would i just cut and weed? I've ordered some decals online to check out the quality and they just come what seems like, cut and weeded. Do they do any special step after that?

 

Also any chance to reply to the whole printing in color question?

 

You are welcome, there's tons to grab here on the Forums.

 

If you are shipping the decal off to someone else for them to apply, you need to complete steps 1 - 5 (including app taping).

Some people prefer to use clear transfer tape so that the recipient sees the decal and color through the transparent tape, but generally it's OK to use the regular opaque tape (that looks like regular masking tape, but has very low adhesive tack).

 

Also, include an instruction sheet along with the decal.

Something like this would work fine -- http://diecutstickers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/applying_diecuts4.png

(They use the term 'masking material' to describe the transfer tape)

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

and as jones said color printing will set you back at lest $10K - you will want to print on cast and laminate to go around curves on laptops if doing full color skins   check out the roland bn-20 and a good laminator to start

[dcbevins 340]

Great video! That helps a lot. Its crazy to me that the thing cuts juts the vinyl and leaves the paper it sticks to. Do I have that correct?

 

Yes it is kind of awesome that cutters can cut through such a thin layer and leave the backing in tack, but that is correct.

 

I remember how overwhelming all this stuff was when I first started.  There were not as many resources available back when I got my feet wet.  The best way back then, and now for that matter, is to go into an established shop and work or at least hang out.

 

That said let me try to give you an over view I wish I had in the beginning.

 

Ordinary vinyl cutters cut sheets or rolls of vinyl material.  The material can be normal vinyl, for applying to smooth surfaces like metal, glass, plastic, walls, vehicles and such.  You cut, weed, apply transfer tape, transfer to the material.  The vinyl is pre-colored, sometimes reflective, sometimes in designs like camouflage, zebra or holographic.  No printing is involved.

 

Some cutters have a contour cut feature.  This is most often used in conjunction with a printer.  The printer prints onto a material usually with a backing and prints registration marks.  You take that printed output, load it onto the cutter.  The cutter has sensors that read the registration marks in some manner and cut out the design.  Often a lamination step is involved.

 

Some vinyl is Heat Transfer Vinyl.  You cut it on the cutter just like other vinyl, (mirror imaging often required).  You weed it like normal.  But you don't use transfer tape.  Instead, you apply it to the material, (usual a garment like a tshirt,)  with a heat press.  Caps, cotton, polyester, and poly-blends can be used.  I think some people have gotten it onto leather.

 

A special class of machine are print/cut machines.  They can both print and cut at the same time.  Usually this involves a specialty ink called solvent or eco-solvent.  These machines are grades more costly, but offer a far wider range of applications.

 

Generally outside the scope of discussions on these forums are various offset printing methods.  The mass produced decals you see for laptops and other things are often done on offset printers.  These are behemoth machines for mass production and enormously costly.  The scope of these forums is more geared to smaller shops where mass production is not the main stay, but smaller runs are in favor.  The profit comes in charging more for the customization.  You charge for making five of something not five million.  That is why it is hard to compete with these mass producers.  They can offer lower costs in the mass production than someone just making a few.  The only advantage is they can't make highly customized items.  They specialize in making quantity not in customization.   You can get a nice laptop decal for four dollars.  You can't get a nice laptop decal with your name on it as they can't do things one at a time.  

 

Getting something onto a laptop case in a small shop environment means interacting directly with the surface of the lap top.  Cut vinyl works just fine.  But if you want full color or photo output, it has to be something printed, usually a print/cut machine and sometimes lamination.  Using eco-solvent  or solvent inks, one can sometimes skip lamination as the inks are UV resistant.

 

As to delivery to customers.  The only viable option I know of is to do the process up to the point of applying the transfer tape.  After trimming the result nicely, you mail that decal with the transfer tape and let the customer do the last step.

 

Another option is to work with a sleeve for the laptop, phone, or tablet.  Using a Neoprene sleeve, you would have the option of using sublimation.  Sublimation uses specialty inks to print onto a sheet the design.  It is then heat transferred to the sleeve with a press.

 

So in the end, if you want to do customized laptop decals, a print/cut machine would be the best.  The minimal starting cost suggest of around $10,000 is a good estimate.  You are not going to make a profit just doing decals for laptops that way.  Instead, an investment in a print/cut machine only makes sense if laptop decals are just a small part of all the output you offer.  With a print/cut machine you enter the world of garments; (tshirts, pants, hoodies, caps,) decals; (truck/car  lettering logos, window front, laptops, phones,) signage, (yard signs, political campaign signs, grommet banners, metal signs,)  and a host of other things.  By using the machine to it's full capacity you stand to make a profit, but doubtful for just a small range like laptop decals.

 

A basic cutter too would be fine, but you don't get full color output.

[zackherman 0]

Alright thanks guys!!

 

So...

 

You are welcome, there's tons to grab here on the Forums.

 

If you are shipping the decal off to someone else for them to apply, you need to complete steps 1 - 5 (including app taping).

Some people prefer to use clear transfer tape so that the recipient sees the decal and color through the transparent tape, but generally it's OK to use the regular opaque tape (that looks like regular masking tape, but has very low adhesive tack).

 

Also, include an instruction sheet along with the decal.

Something like this would work fine -- http://diecutstickers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/applying_diecuts4.png

(They use the term 'masking material' to describe the transfer tape)

 

So I am looking at a color decal that I bought for reference.

 

There isn't a need to do the transfer thing. It just comes like a thick sticker would, you just peel it off and stick it where you want it. Am I missing something? I would like to print them like that.

 

Is it just that these are the same products but some prefer to apply it with better precision or is it a completely different vinyl roll?

 

Here's pictures:

 

In package: http://imgur.com/Ib0psgb,p7FGsVW,tGbjxG0#0

Out package:http://imgur.com/Ib0psgb,p7FGsVW,tGbjxG0#1

Showing how easy it is to peel: http://imgur.com/Ib0psgb,p7FGsVW,tGbjxG0#2

 

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

solvent printed and cut

[slice&dice 2,450]

"I would like to print them like that."

 

In that case, the Graphtec 24" vinyl cutter is not what you want then.

[zackherman 0]

Well when I said "I would like to print them like that" I meant that for the color ones.

 

For the solid color ones (black or white in most cases) can I still use a Graphtec? Would I need special vinyl to get it to easily peel and stick like the images above?

[dcbevins 340]

For the solid colors the Graphtec is great.  Just normal adhesive vinyl is what is needed.   Oracal 651 would work.  Don't forget the transfer tape.

 

http://www.uscutter.com/ORACAL-651-Intermediate-Cal-Vinyl-24-x-10-Yard-Roll

 

Note that you can do a multi colored design with cut vinyl.  You just have to cut each color separately and layer the decal onto the substrate.  Lots of colors however increase the odds of an error in application, and is just all around a hassle.  Two colors isn't too bad, but three gets harder and above three gets to be a pain.  Here in this video he is getting all the colors onto one piece of transfer tape, which you would want to do if your mailing to customers.  Other times you can layer right on top of the substrate if your bold and have a steady hand and can curse like a pirate.

 

 

In all this it is worth mentioning that you HAVE to get proficient at a VECTOR graphics package, not raster.  Corel Draw, Illustrator, Inkscape, or Xara are examples.

[dcbevins 340]

For the curious, a ManRoland 700 HiPrint HS costs about £1.5m = $2,318,925.

 

 

It is a hard thing to compete with in volume.  It can print a sheet every 1/5th of a second.