express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 I want my cards to match the vinyl that I will be using on my truck which is lime-tree green. Sounds simple right? Wrong.....at least through kustom printz. I designed my card using the general color format and just picked the color that appeared closest to the vinyl. When I received the proof it was a much darker green. I questioned it and the response was... "Your file was in RGB format which allows for those ultra bright neon colors. We are a CMYK printer which does not allow for printing of those neon colors. You will need to find a printer with those special inks if you are looking for those neon colors. If we receive an RGB file, we just convert it to CMYK. If you are looking for neon colors, CMYK won’t provide that." I thought neon? It's not neon. It is a soft lime green. So I went to the oracal sight which now shows you the RGB color format when you hover over a color sample (R99 G196 B60). I plugged that into my advanced colors and it is much darker than I hoped for but I sent it to kustom printz anyhow. Needless to say it came back even darker. I then called Oracal to get the CMYK format (C64 M13 Y100 K1). Figured at this point we should be on the money............WRONG! Kustom said that code converted to (R107 G168 B67) which is different than the RGB listed by Oracal. I thought WTH? Called Oracal back and explained the issue. After a few days he called me back and said the RGB listed on the sight is what "their guys" in house see the color as and the CMYK he gave me comes from the guys in the Germany factory. Go figure. They should still convert right? At this point I am pretty frustrated! I just want my cards to match my vinyl! So aside from taking a sample to one of the shops in town Does anyone know how I can make this happen? .........fyi I don't know anything about color formats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ravenwind / One Off Grafx 187 Posted October 30, 2014 Have you tried Vistaprint? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
101LEDs 100 Posted October 30, 2014 Maybe give these people a call. http://www.printingforless.com/2-Color-Printing.html They might be able to help. Make sure that your printer doesn't convert your specific Pantone request to a CMYK color build and print it as four color without telling you. This has been known to occur and should be something you confirm when selecting your printing company. Make sure they will use true two color printing on your project if requested, and not a CMYK conversion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 Well it looks like this is one more way my graphtec studio software limits me. No CMYK ....no easy export.......no this.......no that two more steps back! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
101LEDs 100 Posted October 30, 2014 I don't know if this helps. C - 30.7, M - 50.3,Y - 0.0,K - 25.4 R -112.0, G - 190.3, B - 62.0 That is from VMP4's color library. It has about 35 different vinyl mfg. built in with the different colors and styles for each. 751-063.svg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks 101 I'll give it a shot. If I take this code to a local printer to get a sample and it's a match then I should be able to give the code to Kustom printz and it will match the vinyl?.? Oh wait they only print the file you send them. Another thing that ticks me off is the fact that they will not send one card for approval. When they come right out and tell you that the "proof" may not look like the actual card due to display differences. I have a lot of experience with paint codes for both automotive and wall use and when I order a particular code it is the same every time. I don't see why I can't send them my design and the color codes and be done! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
101LEDs 100 Posted October 30, 2014 I would take a piece of the vinyl or color guide to show them to. Doesn't sound like Kustom printz is very "custom". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted October 30, 2014 Welcome to printing. You can never promise how one printer will handle a color that you give them unless you specify pantone color matching. Every printer will print cmyk and rbg values different. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted October 30, 2014 heck,. the colors can vary day to day from the same ink set. Even in offset printing. If you need a specific color, pay the price and pantone match it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 heck,. the colors can vary day to day from the same ink set. Even in offset printing. If you need a specific color, pay the price and pantone match it. Hey mopar! How you doin? I appreciate your input. I DO need a specific color. And I have to admit my LACK of related knowledge is playing a huge roll in my frustration! What is this pantone match? For me it's not about the money (within reason) it's about an exact match. It's my OCD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted October 30, 2014 Have you tried the (C64 M13 Y100 K1) numbers that you got from Oracal? I would recolor and re-save with those numbers and try it somewhere like you did with the RGB numbers. At this point what it looks like on your screen make no difference but quite possibly the CMYK numbers from Oracal will produce something pretty close. You will have to change the color mode of the document to CMYK. Not sure of the program you are using how hard or easy that will be. Another thought is what does your home computer spit out when you try it there? Is it similar to what the printer was getting? I often print a series of squares and then color each one a little different over a broad spectrum and print the whole group and see which one looks like I want then go back in and use that color for the work even though it looks off on the screen. Common with red when using shirt transfers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 Hey goose! I'm using graphtec studio which only has RGB. I don't know how to get to CMYK. Yeahhhhh nub! Appreciate all of the help guys! Gotta get some sleep. tomorrow I'll take a sample and the code from oracal to a print shop and go from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted October 30, 2014 cmyk and rbg will never match correctly at a printer. Match your colors using a pantone color card and name the color that pantone color. Tell your printer you need a pantone match. If they can not match that find another printer. Also I suggest to going to someone like 4over for cards and such. I have had nothing but spot on color when getting specific colors from them. But basic cmyk and rbg can be all over the place as with any printer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
101LEDs 100 Posted October 30, 2014 PMS 802 / 802x ? Seems close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efimage 42 Posted October 30, 2014 I work at my family’s printing company. I really do not do anything on the offset side but on the laser side I can tell you that color matching can be finicky. We run Konica Bizhup 8000’s these are $125000 color lasers running Fiery rips and we still have a hard time matching color from day to day. Humidity, room temperature etc. will effect it even with calibrating twice a day. I have spent hours getting the same job we ran a month ago to exactly match color for a very picky clients before but it can be done. If the cards are being laser printed according to what equipment they are running they can match the colors. They might not want to put the time in though on a business card they are not making much money on. BTW we outsource are own business cards it is just easier and cheaper. We will print some as favors for our bigger clients and I am sure if we had a card slitter it might be different but ruling up and trimming cards takes time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted October 30, 2014 Cards are a low profit business with very few exceptions. Like Mopar said you'll have to find someone to Panton match to get you that close, maybe. I feel bad because I referred you to kustomprintz.com but I've sold their card for over 3 years now and you're the first I've heard with a problem. Also for those that don't know kustomprintz.com along with 90% of online sellers of print hoods are just middlemen for 4 large print factories in the us and they make their money on volume. If someone comes to me wanting a proof I charge $30 and order 250 cards. I give them 2 as a proof set and toss the rest. As far as Vista print I know for a fact that in the last month I have picked up 3 commercial clients because of the quality of the product they sell. May be more than that but 3 have straight up told me so. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted October 30, 2014 Cards are a low profit business with very few exceptions. Like Mopar said you'll have to find someone to Panton match to get you that close, maybe. I feel bad because I referred you to kustomprintz.com but I've sold their card for over 3 years now and you're the first I've heard with a problem. Also for those that don't know kustomprintz.com along with 90% of online sellers of print hoods are just middlemen for 4 large print factories in the us and they make their money on volume. If someone comes to me wanting a proof I charge $30 and order 250 cards. I give them 2 as a proof set and toss the rest. As far as Vista print I know for a fact that in the last month I have picked up 3 commercial clients because of the quality of the product they sell. May be more than that but 3 have straight up told me so. I signed up for Vista's wholesale option, they call it something else but anyway they will give you good enough prices that you can get them to the customer for slightly less than they can order from Vista and still have a little room to turn some profit. I ordered the cards in non-marked boxes and they come without Vista's logo on the box. Really nice to have an outsourced printer than can turn out as nice of product as they do and willing to wholesale to little guys like me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efimage 42 Posted October 30, 2014 I signed up for Vista's wholesale option, they call it something else but anyway they will give you good enough prices that you can get them to the customer for slightly less than they can order from Vista and still have a little room to turn some profit. I ordered the cards in non-marked boxes and they come without Vista's logo on the box. Really nice to have an outsourced printer than can turn out as nice of product as they do and willing to wholesale to little guys like me. 4Over.com is pretty good also. 1000 14pt or16pt cards 4/4 shipped to my door for around $25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 No reason to feel bad jaybird. I used them for one customers cards and the quality was great! I believe this is more on my end....My limited knowledge and "free" software...... I need to upgrade to a good mac/graphtec compatible setup. I'll call around and ask for pantone matching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted October 30, 2014 Some colors are just hard to reproduce and you found 1. 2 customers this month came because magnets they bought from vista didn't last 90 days and another had shirts done with similar results. I looked into being a wholesaler with one of the really big companies but I don't sell cards consistently enough to keep wholesale pricing but I do remember it was dirt cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 I went to the biggest printer in town and the guy who runs the press and printers wasn't there. The lady I spoke with got out the press pantone set and we found one that was pretty close. The digital swatches didn't even come close. But I left the sample and cmyk from Oracal for the "guy" to work with. They should have a sample tomorrow. No Idea on price yet but their cards seemed awfully thin and I forgot to ask about thicker stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted October 30, 2014 no pantone or printed color will ever match to a oracal vinyl color. It just can not happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted October 30, 2014 no pantone or printed color will ever match to a oracal vinyl color. It just can not happen. I thought you told me to get a pantone match? That is what I asked for when I called the print shop. Now I am even more confused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted October 30, 2014 Oracal releases CorelDraw compatible palette files, and for Oracal 651-063, (which should be the same color as 751-063) the values are: R 155 G 166 B 63 or C 75 M 10 Y 100 K 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted October 30, 2014 You need to pick out a pantone color. You can not have a color that is on PVC and recreate it on paper. All you can do is get a color that matches it to the best of your eye and go with it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites