Tyson0317

Brad new plotter going crazy!

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We got our MH 34" cutter in the mail today. Put it together, watched some videos, loaded drivers and got to playing with it. At first, everything was cool - we printed a few small decals, stuck them around the office and all was well.

 

The problem came up when I tried to print a more complex 23" x 2" decal that has a wave motive. The plotter gets started and cuts maybe about 10% of it without problem. But then puts the blade down and starts unrolling the vinyl roll at high speed while carving some nonsense curve on the side of the roll - effectively wrecking the material.

 

We rebooted everything twice, Re-imported the PNG graphic, started from scratch on 3 separate occasions with same exact results. The preview looks correct. We've tried reducing the mat size... nothing helped. At the same exact moment in the plotting process every time it would just dig the knife into the roll, go most of the way right and start carving a weird curve down the side of the roll as fast as it could.

 

We then tried a new smaller graphic just to make sure that something didnt break - it plotted fine. I then took a simpler graphic and stretched it to 23" x 4", it worked fine. We then re-imported the more complex graphic that was having problems and selected "2" as the number of colors. This really should not have changed anything, but the cutter for once got farther than before. I thought we got it fixed, but no - at about 20% it did the same thing as before. 

 

Another weird thing that happened was when we tried to slow the cutting speed down to 250. The plotter started cutting in dots. It would move the knife up and down very quickly effectively making 1mm cuts with half mm non-cuts along the lines that were supposed to have been solid. On the SAME EXACT DRAWING, when the plotter was but back to 500, it made smooth continuous lines.

 

We are a professional I.T. firm and I got the feeling that the issue may be with the USB-Serial emulation. We are using the USB cord that came with the plotter, on a USB 2.0 port in Windows 7 Pro x32. Our port settings in the software are set to USB, Auto-port and 9600 Baud emulation. The cutter is set to 100g pressure and 500 speed. We are using "Origin" rather than "WYSIWYG" printing method.

 

I've read somewhere that serial interface is preferred and we will need to dig our graveyard for something semi-decent that still has a native serial controller, load it up with a fresh OS and give it a try. In the meantime I am a bit bummed out.

 

Any ideas about what's happening here??

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No way this is a stand grounding issue! I didn't attach the cable, but this is clearly a digital problem - happens on the same exact spot in the process every single time. No way that this is a grounding problem.

 

Per memory - I also thought this may be the case. The PC is fine, but I assume that the plotter has a memory buffer in it. I thought that maybe the more complex graphic hit some portion of the buffer that was bad. One idea I would have is to slow down the data flow rate to the plotter, but again until we get a true serial connection I dont think this can be done. Also, if the plotter is hard-set on 9600, it may not accept a slower speed. There is not a replaceable memory module in these things, is there? What can be done if this is a memory problem? Send it back?

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Per UScutter set up info  the MH cutter is supposed to be on 4800 baud rate.   It had also been mentioned a zillion times to put the cutter on a Keyspan Adapter. Or a serial connection/serial card.  Not just any ol USB to serial cable. will do either.    Either get a Tripplite Keypsan adapter or a Belkin.  per UScutter tech support. Some can get it to work on just USB,  many others not.    And the MH series are very limited on memory.  Turn the cutter off and back on between jobs to clear the data from the previous order.   Hope this helps you.

 

MPORTANT:

The Baud Rate in the cutter settings needs to be changed from 9600 to 4800.

 

http://www.uscuttersupport.com/downloads/Support_PDF/USBSetup/MH/MH_USB_WIN7.pdf

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tripp-Lite-USA-19HS-Keyspan-High-Speed-USB-to-Serial-Adapter-/160804080791?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item2570ab8c97 

 

 

Why do I need a keyspan?

 

Looking for a way to connect a serial device to the USB port on your PC or Mac? This USB High Speed Serial Adapter provides a simple and reliable solution. This adapter is broadly recommended by serial device manufacturers due to its dependability and "Best in Class" compatibility.

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I could have sworn that my video said 9600, but will try 4800 tomorrow. 

 

Per adaptor, we arent using one. Just USB straight into the motherboard via provided USB cable and USB port on the plotter. I think that we have a retired server in the shop that has one of the Intel AH3400 boards in it with onboard native serial. Better than any adapter.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that this has to be a buffer overrun issue. In the days when memory costs less than $4/gb and with tool paths that are likely in the 100-300kb range, could they really not put a bigger chip in there??

 

I hoped for a more definitive, "Ohh we had this same problem and X fixed it", but it sounds like we need to try to serial thing and go from there. Thing is, if these are such common issues, why dont they just do away with the USB interface, use the $10 that saves them to put a gig of RAM into the thing and just package a Belkin adapter with the plotter??

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You purchased the least expensive hobby cutter there was...  Don't expect a Corvette out of a Chevette.  If you wanted the Corvette you should have bought the Graphtec or Roland instead.   The value cutters are made in China and rebranded to sell here.   From members talking about their cutters,  A  SC or a Pcut would have been a better investment...in my opinion.   Just from reading here.  Some people run businesses with their MH cutter.   Some people upgrade quick.   Make some money to pay for it, and upgrade.

 

They used to sell memory chips for the older MH series. 

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Had you researched purchasing a plotter as much as making it work you would have immediately noticed that mh is a the lowest entry level machine and has tons of complaints just like yours. Either connect it serial or but a key span adapter like uscutter recommends. Also if you don't ground it you will end up frying it.

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Also plotters cut, not print. This may seem trivial but when someone is searching the forum for a printer problem all the plotter post come up instead

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Mine did the exact same thing...exact same.

 

KEY SPAN...

 

Thats all it took. 

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Mine does this when I import images that have an outline and fill color. I usually do one or the other. This also happens when I have an open path somewhere in the file that I may have overlooked. Also....a keyspan helps to cut down on issues like this, due to connection/communication issues.

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VinylExposure and DNA yours were the only replies worth reading. I am not sure what some of the others on this forum are even doing here!

 

For posterity:

 

I figured this out before reading Exposure's post, but he is correct. Importing an outline, does weird things to the path and makes it needlessly complex. I used the bucket tool to make the shapes filled and solid. Following this it printed perfectly!

 

Before that took place however, I had our intern spend a few hours with tech support first reading posts, then researching the support site and finally on the phone. Turns out their tech support is just across Lake Washington from our office! Guy there was really good also. First thing he had us do was pull the serial cable out of the machine and use the included USB straight into the PC. His notion was that the various adapters out there simply took the configuration out of the user's hands. When the USB interface is configured properly, he said that it works best and fastest. After messing with some settings, even at the 4800 baud emulated speed, the job was getting sent to the plotter A LOT faster and the cutting became smoother with hardly any stops. This however did not resolve the problem.

 

Instead of wasting vinyl, had us put the pen adapter into the plotter and flip the vinyl sheet over so that it would write the tool path on the back of the roll. Genius! Hence forth I will be using this tool path test method before printing anything big. After looking at our line drawing, he determined that our tool path was simply being flipped sideways for some reason and that the motherboard in our plotter was bad and offered to ship a replacement overnight.

 

As a professional IT guy, I suspect that the cause of the problem was memory. It is soldered onto the motherboard, so replacing the motherboard will replace memory. What likely happened was that our outlined tool path, was big enough to hit some bad block of RAM that lived in some address range. This did not manifest during the making of less complex graphics, but reared its head with my needlessly complex line drawing.

 

To those of you teaching me about Corvettes... Kindly pull your head out of your rear! Yes, with a cheaper machine I can expect a shorter lifespan. I can live with parts that wear out or need maintenance more often. Maybe slower and slightly less precise cut speeds, etc. But the machine has to function on a simple 24x3 wave pattern! If it didnt and this was a legitimate "it can't do it because its too cheap" problem, then I would consider it a fraud and it would go back. That said, I have seen quite a few videos of these things making some amazing stuff. What I was doing was well within the demonstrated capacity. And your comments that I simply didnt spend enough money, or that my expectations of making a wave hull graphic for my R/C boat were unrealistic, are plainly useless and imbecile! 

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   glad you got it worked out though and as a professional IT guy I am sure you will be able to handle everything from here on out and teach us all a lot more about printing with a blade.   

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Tyson, get a year or two experience with your cutter, then upgrade to a higher end unit and you will look back on things much differently and the comments that wouldn't sink in this time around just might make sense. 5 post in and you are already telling long time members that they have their head in their rear is a ridiculous way to start things out. I can already tell you that 3 of the best, most experienced and friendliest forum members have probably written you into their get-lost list. 

 

How's that saying go? Experience is a cruel teacher but a fool will learn no other way. 

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Please tell us ol' professional IT guy,  How do you get the ink in the the blade?  We must be doing something wrong... Our expensive cutters don't PRINT like yours.  Please tell us how you do it..  And YEP made my list.!!!...  Thanks WildGoose.

 

I can't wait to see your wave hull graphic for your RC boat!!!  Are you going to PRINT that also???  Make sure you laminate it, so the ink does not run and fade in the water...

 

And I didn't say you couldn't make anything, it is just a matter of how many times, and how much time, do you have to get it right?   Make sure you have plenty of supplies on hand...as well as patience.    I know what it's like to run a value cutter, most of us on the forum started with one. and because of that, most of us on the forum upgraded to a cutter with a servo motor.  It's night and day difference  So, good luck with NIGHT....

We have always said, to new buyers,  buy the BEST that you can afford. Every cutter is listed on the UScutter  buying guide as to what, level, it will do...

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Yep made the list. Might want to look into a CIS for those blades to lower ink cost while you're doing all that printing.

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Somewhere in the post I wrote 'print' instead of 'cut' and that is all that you can focus on. How mature! How lame! Nobody was confused by what I wrote. The comment that using the word print in searches may not work well was the only valid statement on the subject matter. And yes, I do put ink into my plotter! If you want to know how, ask nicely and the guy with 4 posts might even post a youtube clip to show you how.

 

Per the friendliest, most knowledgeable people on this board who wrote asinine responses to a thread seeking help with the plotter misinterpreting its cut path - I would prefer that such trolls not respond to my threads. Their advice was non-constructive and proved to be WRONG! It'd be like someone bringing in a brand new Ford that got a flat tire, to a repair shop where the friendliest most knowledgeable mechanic who's changed 9547 tires in the past told the driver, "Well you bought a Ford - that's your problem! Don't expect it work like a BMW! I got a BMW and my BMW is the greatest! I too had a Ford when I started driving but a BMW is so much more superior - my BMW has an SMG transmission and VANOS system! Good luck with your Ford and all of it's problems!" Maybe I'm new to plotting - can one of you explain to me how a servo would have prevented the motherboard problem that I was having? 

 

Certainly, I am sure that higher end models are better - there is no argument there. As I stated, it would be obvious if they were more reliable, faster, more precise, etc. But the problem that I had was obviously not a stand-grounding issue, nor was it from to a systematic failure due to cheapness. The motherboard had a bad block of memory. While we are at it, can anyone here find me A SINGLE OTHER POST ON THE WHOLE INTERNET describing the exact problem that I was having? It seems like thousands of these MH units have been sold. If my problem was due to it being cheap, then they should all do it, right? The most knowledgeable sages here said that it was so common, yet my Google-foo, found none! Just because a troll has 10,000 posts, doesn't mean he's knows what he is talking about.

 

FYI, the wave graphic went on the 1-meter RC boat as a trial before a larger one goes onto our company race boat later this week when the bigger rolls arrive. Stay tuned for pictures.

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Somewhere in the post I wrote 'print' instead of 'cut' and that is all that you can focus on. How mature! How lame! Nobody was confused by what I wrote. The comment that using the word print in searches may not work well was the only valid statement on the subject matter. And yes, I do put ink into my plotter! If you want to know how, ask nicely and the guy with 4 posts might even post a youtube clip to show you how.

 

Per the friendliest, most knowledgeable people on this board who wrote asinine responses to a thread seeking help with the plotter misinterpreting its cut path - I would prefer that such trolls not respond to my threads. Their advice was non-constructive and proved to be WRONG! It'd be like someone bringing in a brand new Ford that got a flat tire, to a repair shop where the friendliest most knowledgeable mechanic who's changed 9547 tires in the past told the driver, "Well you bought a Ford - that's your problem! Don't expect it work like a BMW! I got a BMW and my BMW is the greatest! I too had a Ford when I started driving but a BMW is so much more superior - my BMW has an SMG transmission and VANOS system! Good luck with your Ford and all of it's problems!" Maybe I'm new to plotting - can one of you explain to me how a servo would have prevented the motherboard problem that I was having? 

 

Certainly, I am sure that higher end models are better - there is no argument there. As I stated, it would be obvious if they were more reliable, faster, more precise, etc. But the problem that I had was obviously not a stand-grounding issue, nor was it from to a systematic failure due to cheapness. The motherboard had a bad block of memory. While we are at it, can anyone here find me A SINGLE OTHER POST ON THE WHOLE INTERNET describing the exact problem that I was having? It seems like thousands of these MH units have been sold. If my problem was due to it being cheap, then they should all do it, right? The most knowledgeable sages here said that it was so common, yet my Google-foo, found none! Just because a troll has 10,000 posts, doesn't mean he's knows what he is talking about.

 

FYI, the wave graphic went on the 1-meter RC boat as a trial before a larger one goes onto our company race boat later this week when the bigger rolls arrive. Stay tuned for pictures.

Done and will do from now on.

ps the stopping during cuts and cutting lines thru graphics on this cutter is well documented on the forum and many have fixed it by going serial . . . google doesn't seem to be your friend either  :huh: 

when the tracking questions come up on the longer graphic I promise to keep my mouth shut

As my cousin vinnie said - "I'm done with this one"

 when asked to leave and not help I leave, obviously we are not smart enough to help  ;D

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No way this is a stand grounding issue! I didn't attach the cable,

Also, well documented on the forum for the MH cutters.  Yep, Google is not your friend.  Better stock up on z-chips, if your not going to use the grounding cable.   And when you have questions about why your cut lines don't meet.   Why a circle is not a circle,  Why your cutter just makes weird diagonal lines thru your designs, Why your lines are not smooth and are all steps.   As well as tracking above. And any other questions you may have.....

  I promise to keep my mouth shut.!!!! ;D   Welcome to NIGHT!!!

 

http://forum.uscutter.com/index.php?/topic/45467-mh721-blade-will-not-go-up-or-down/ 

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If all of your posts are are useful as the "Corvette" comment, then yes please keep them to yourself. 

 

By the way, everything you described are sensor/position reading errors. Maybe these are prone to these after some wear. I bought my plotter for one project, then it's going on eBay.

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Wow, I hope he doesn't have a job in a technical field,as he can't seem to take instruction well. you all gave him the straight scoop on that cutter but he didn't like what he was hearing. too bad, maybe next time he needs to do more research before he jumps in to a new hobby.

BTW I did my research and bought a Graphtec, and couln't be happier.    Rick

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The problem is that apparently I'm just not smart enough to help you. 6 years on half a dozen cutters including a mh series just isn't enough for me to know anything yet and for that I apologize.

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I'm sorry I'm not feeling as magnanimous as you guys. I CALL BS. He's obviously a dolt. If I had "One Project" and was totally new to the craft I would just hire some pro to do it for me and be done with it. If his outfit has enough coin to own a speed boat why would they purchase the very rock bottom cutter that is possibly less useful than a cricut? No one ever knocked him for his actual choice on the cutter, he just took it that way. Mz Skeeter just informed him that the chevette he bought was basically expected to have some issues because it's the budget of the budget models and low and behold it had a bad memory chip, hmmm. No one was telling him he needed to go spend $1500 on a better cutter, just that he needed to expect a few issues and not act like he just got taken to the cleaners in some sort of scam. To top it all off he has the audacity to call the lady a troll. I can guarantee that he didn't take the time to consider why there would be people willing to hang around and help newbies out with cutters we all know (and knew when we bought them) are very cheap. She is a nice person, as is Scott and Jay and so many others. That's my motivation to keep coming back and trying to help. I was once a newb and had no clue how to proceed and got great help and just enjoy returning the favor. Out of Skeeter's 10,000 posts I bet you 3000 are reposting how to set up your blade depth! Over and over and over and over, try and tell me she isn't helpful, truthful and nice. Jay and Scott, although moderators, are not paid for their time. I'm sorry but his insolent comments rankle.

 

I'll shut up now, in fact I think I'm going to ignore the fact that this guy even exists.  

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