blackpaws 18 Posted March 28, 2014 A couple days ago I was contacted by a friend of a friend who wanted a price quote for decals for a group their in. I gave them a price quote. They told me it sounded good and that if I could come up with a proof, they would show it to everyone in the group and see who all wanted to order, but they guessed around 12-20 people. If this was a random stranger on the internet, I probably would have asked for payment up front before designing anything. But for whatever reason, I felt like I had sealed the deal and went ahead and worked a couple hours on coming up with a design. I sent it to the person, and they replied telling me how good it looked, and that they showed it to some people in their group. They also informed me that some of these other people in their group were "in conversation" with 2 other decal stores, and that they would let me know for sure if they were going to order from me or not. At that point, I was kind of mad because not only did I potentially waste my time, but I have a really bad feeling that they are taking my design and shopping around for the cheapest quote on it. Or they are going to waste 2 other shops time asking for proofs/designs, and picking the one they like best? I have no idea. The problem is, how could I have prevented that? What did I do wrong? I thought maybe I should have asked for a retainer fee, but is that even normal? I'm talking a rather small order here, so it sounds silly but I don't know. Of course if they go through with ordering from me, I will collect full payment before making anything. I almost feel like turning down their business if they do choose me because I feel like they scammed me in a way, making it sound like I had their business...but then oh wait.... What do ya'll think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pshawny 410 Posted March 28, 2014 Sounds like a learning experience. Money talks, everything else walks. If you can whip up a design in a few minutes, then I would send them a low res sample. Maybe even put a watermark over it. If you are going to put hours worth of work into something, then I would require some sort of deposit first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coaster36 327 Posted March 28, 2014 You live and you learn. And trust me, It wont be the last time you learn a lesson. Its all good. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
security802 686 Posted March 28, 2014 Sounds like a learning experience. Money talks, everything else walks. If you can whip up a design in a few minutes, then I would send them a low res sample. Maybe even put a watermark over it. If you are going to put hours worth of work into something, then I would require some sort of deposit first. 72dpi and watermark it 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HDN 95 Posted March 28, 2014 Been there done that disliked that.. establish a policy and stick to it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joker 618 Posted March 28, 2014 Been there. For future like EL stated watermark it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted March 28, 2014 Doing work like this on "spec" is rarely done in this industry. However, you still have a chance of obtaining the job, so don't despair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted March 28, 2014 That sucks man.. If the design is original..u own the copyright to it. So if they take it to another shop..find out and send them a cease and desist letter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted March 28, 2014 I do designs all the time and send proofs w/o guarantee of work and have been lucky that even when I didn't get the work they did not steal my designs and most of the time I ended up with the job or they decided it was too costly or whatever and nobody got the job. It's just a part of doing business if you protect yourseld to the point that the customer feels you don't trust them why would they even want to do business with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted March 28, 2014 Thats kinda true..but its mostly not about trust...its about business. Since his project started out for a friend, trust is involved. But if you own a shop/store...its business first. If some stranger comes in and asks you to work on something that will take hours to do, do u initially just "trust" this stranger? What has this stranger done to earn your trust...cuz the saying goes you gotta earn trust. If all businesses "trusted" everyone, every "potential" customer then there would be no need for secuirty cameras and device tags. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BannerJohn 1,324 Posted March 28, 2014 That sucks man.. If the design is original..u own the copyright to it. So if they take it to another shop..find out and send them a cease and desist letter. 100% correct. The design belongs to you. Not to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted March 28, 2014 GC, I only email quick designs and if they are involved they are asked to come in and review them with me and then I go with my gut on whether to give the a nice proof to take home or 1 with a big watermark. Very rarely do I watermark things and I have been extremely fortunate to deal with mostly upstanding individuals. Being in budiness 1 thing I have learned is that once you come here for something that is a business deal and friendship must be separated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kauffman21 32 Posted March 30, 2014 watermark everything. I have learned that I have to watermark everything. But I have had people straight up steal my finished product pictures and pass them off as their own, so I trust no one. In the end, I would hope the other shop would see that it is your design and you watermarked it, but just like in any form of business, there are shady people out there that will just recreate it or something. If it is original, you do own it or so that's what I believe to be true...I am far from a lawyer so don't take my word to court with you. I hate people to waste my time, but also sometimes you have to do that in order to get their business. At least that's what I have experienced. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeeJaysPlace 476 Posted March 31, 2014 I use corel .. is there a watermark feature in there? and if so where? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted March 31, 2014 Just add your logo and tweak it with transparency. Flyout #12 on the left, very last choice in the flyout. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted March 31, 2014 Not the best watermark but you get the idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CodyMcAllister 2 Posted April 19, 2014 I designed a WHOLE racecar scheme for a guy, only to have him show up at the track with MY EXACT DESIGN on the car and it wasn't done in my shop. lol. You live and you learn. You can usually tell by how a person acts and talks on whether or not you can expect their business so spend a little while talking with them. I'm going to have to start taking the watermark advice. Jay's design is simple but looks like it will be effective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 19, 2014 Did u give him the entire design? Or how would someone else completely recreate it to the "T" without seeing or having your design? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted April 20, 2014 Your statement started out a friend of a friend.....sorry but friends, kin and even neighbors and business is not a good match most friends and family take what ever service you provide for granted and usally does not value your time. Anything I do for family I do not even try to charge because most likely whatever you charge will be to much to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
express2100 154 Posted April 20, 2014 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mabscotthandyman" data-cid="354867" data-time="1397961786"><p> Your statement started out a friend of a friend.....sorry but friends, kin and even neighbors and business is not a good match most friends and family take what ever service you provide for granted and usally does not value your time. Anything I do for family I do not even try to charge because most likely whatever you charge will be to much to them.</p></blockquote> So true handyman. I am currently working on my first job which is for a friend who just started a concrete business. Two trucks with 32"x22" vinyl on each door and four 2"x18" DOT #'s. I'm not asking for any money. Only asking him to spread the word if he likes my work. It's good practice for me and hey he does concrete and future trade outs are better than cash IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
