Cutting small files

[sluggo2u 32]

Hello all,

 

I'm trying to do some masks for model airplanes. I've had pretty good luck cutting quite small on my Copam but it does not do so well on small squares. Considering stepping up to a Graphtec but would like to verify that it can do better.

 

I understand I'm asking the machine to do things for which it's not intended but I've had pretty good luck with it.

 

Here's an example of what I'm doing. The shield on the tail of this measures 14.898x16627mm. The lion and the wheel are 7.225x8.657 and 4.2mm respectively.

 

Everything on this model is painted and masks cut on the copam. The fact that it did the job it did on the tiny pieces in the shield leads me to believe that it can be done.

 

Will a Graphtec or equivalent machine with servo motors work better for this or about the same? 

 

Would someone be willing to test cut the attached file on a Graphtec for me? I would be greatly appreciated. The copam cuts this file perfectly with the exception of the rectangular bits.

 

Advice on how to improve the copam's performance would be welcomed also.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

new face plate.eps

[skarekrow 1,842]

I dont have a Graphtec but, that's some tiny work for even them.

[jmas 119]

The Graphtec cuts pretty small, usually weeding or having the vinyl bunch up are the problem. Here are a couple of my smallest. The Nissan decal is 21.59 x 14.02 mm and the Ford is 9.3 x 25.4mm. The Nissan pic was a test cut and I had the letters inverted and all screwed up, but this is the best pic I have. In the finished decal, I weeded the rectangle around them and left black letters. Anyway, the letters are 3 or 4mm tall. I believe the "o" in Ford is 3-4mm too. I can check later.

[dwp99 283]

The Summa is not to bad either.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

Thats pretty good doug! 

 

Sluggo - the servo motors are much more accurate but I don't know if it's worth it just for that?

[dwp99 283]

That's pretty good Doug! 

 

Sluggo - the servo motors are much more accurate but I don't know if it's worth it just for that?

Thanks Wildgoose,  it's .7" wide by .479" high.  That's about as small as I can cut that logo.

[skarekrow 1,842]

I know my cutter wont do it but I'm still waiting to see you guys cut and weed the OP's file in regular vinyl.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I took a shot at it but that stuff is pretty small and most of the stuff that is outside the panels just comes up with the weed. One of these was on a scrap of greenstar and the lower boxes with the cirlcles came up wit the weed, pretty well got the two dashboards or whatever these things are. THe second one was some ORacal 751 and it did better on the lower squares but weeding them without picking the whole thing off the carrier was tough. The right dash I tried to weed with a pair of tweezers and you can see the result with the dash setting up above. It got stuck on the tweezer and wouldn't come off. I would hate to have to do these on a regular bases. My eyes aren't good enough to even see some of the smaller holes so I quit trying to stab them and took a pic. If you were doing a one off for a special model and had the patience to cut a dozen of these and keep trying I think you could get all the elements but my experience with tiny stuff is you had better cut extra and plan on cannibalizing a few to get all the pieces.

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

graphtec  - nothing compares that I have used . . . had a copam and it was good but graphtec still better imho

[jmas 119]

That's some good weeding.

 

I checked the text in my Nissan logos and the letters are 3.09mm tall, the "s" is almost "square" at 2.97mm wide. Those aren't wagon wheel circles, but it shows that the Graphtec can cut a pattern out of 3mm.

The "o" in the Ford decal is 3.04mm tall too. If I take the little curly-q thing on the F and delete it's tail, the actual circle is .43mm inner diameter. It's impossible to weed, I must have gotten lucky on the one in the photo because I usually leave them solid, but it does cut them.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

Good point, if sluggo can leave that stuff alone and weed from the final resting place it would be easy, well maybe not easy but very reproducible. Not sure if you can see where to install it without at least a little weeding though. 

[sluggo2u 32]

I took a shot at it but that stuff is pretty small and most of the stuff that is outside the panels just comes up with the weed. One of these was on a scrap of greenstar and the lower boxes with the cirlcles came up wit the weed, pretty well got the two dashboards or whatever these things are. THe second one was some ORacal 751 and it did better on the lower squares but weeding them without picking the whole thing off the carrier was tough. The right dash I tried to weed with a pair of tweezers and you can see the result with the dash setting up above. It got stuck on the tweezer and wouldn't come off. I would hate to have to do these on a regular bases. My eyes aren't good enough to even see some of the smaller holes so I quit trying to stab them and took a pic. If you were doing a one off for a special model and had the patience to cut a dozen of these and keep trying I think you could get all the elements but my experience with tiny stuff is you had better cut extra and plan on cannibalizing a few to get all the pieces.

I looks like it cut the rectangles much better than my copam. It cut the dimple in the bottom of the bezel too. The bits separated and above the panels in that file are ridiculously small. I can cut 5-6 pieces and get 1 or 2 usable pieces.

 

Thanks for checking it out Goose! Was that done on a Summa or Graphtec?

[skarekrow 1,842]

Once again, I'm convinced. It'll be a Graphtec for me when the time comes.

[dwp99 283]

I also gave it a try.  It was tough but everything got cut.  this was done with Oracal 751.  I damaged a couple of rings and the 4 larger dot on the right were supposed to have a ring but it was way to thin.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I have a Summa

[dwp99 283]

I have a Summa

You can't beat them.  I'm using a Clean Cut blade and it helps to have a good pair of tweezers and some dental picks.

 

You can see from this wire frame that some of the circles are very close to the edge.

[sluggo2u 32]

I also gave it a try.  It was tough but everything got cut.  this was done with Oracal 751.  I damaged a couple of rings and the 4 larger dot on the right were supposed to have a ring but it was way to thin.

Doug.

 

That is impressive! Those circles on the top right are .36mm. I seem to have better luck cutting on 631. Tried 751, it was ok but it was gloss.

 

I'll be using Oramask 810 for the final product. 810 cuts really nice.

 

I'm glad I posted this. Looks like the Summa is the way to go.

[dwp99 283]

Doug.

 

That is impressive! Those circles on the top right are .36mm. I seem to have better luck cutting on 631. Tried 751, it was ok but it was gloss.

 

I'll be using Oramask 810 for the final product. 810 cuts really nice.

 

I'm glad I posted this. Looks like the Summa is the way to go.

 

Thanks, I was using Oracal 751 matte black.  I know if I tried it on gloss it wouldn't have turned out.  You could try 651 which is a calendered vinyl that is a half mil thicker.  

 

Those  rings above the square gauges are going to be almost impossible to do.  The cut lines are so close together that the blade cutting width is wider than the ring.

 

I've had my Summa D60 for a little over 5 years, I bought it used and the only problem i had was a power supply.  Summa gets big bucks for it but I was able to find one online for a little over $20.00.

 

Summa's customer support is excellent and is lifetime even if you bought a plotter second hand. 

 

Here's the blade out of my cutter, it's 36deg.  I also have a 60deg blade and I wonder if it would cut the smaller stuff better.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

Be prepared to see the price tag on the Summa. With a stand and additional 60* blade holder I was at over $3200.00 They don't come cheap. I don't honestly know if they will do better on tiny stuff like this over a Graphtec or Roland but they are the best at tracking, period and that is mostly why I bought mine. I don't do a lot of contour cutting but the Opus X system for that is supposed to be the best too and it does work awesome. I just use it for contouring around transfers when they are small enough to still have room for registration marks. The fine cutting ability is due in part to the accuracy of the motors and the other high end machines probably have similar success for the same reason. 

[Wildgoose 4,200]

I also gave it a try.  It was tough but everything got cut.  this was done with Oracal 751.  I damaged a couple of rings and the 4 larger dot on the right were supposed to have a ring but it was way to thin.

Those are some nice tweezers

[sluggo2u 32]

I also gave it a try.  It was tough but everything got cut.  this was done with Oracal 751.  I damaged a couple of rings and the 4 larger dot on the right were supposed to have a ring but it was way to thin.

I was able to get it cut a little better than this

 

 

Thanks to a post a found by Dakotagrafx on another forum. This is probably THE most important piece of advise(along with blade depth) for any newb or lightly experienced vinyl whacker. I've been running a .12 offset through scalp and 0 on the machine. It's now set to .25 on the machine and 0 in scalp. I'm also replacing scalp with Flexistarter 10 real soon. I do all my file work in Illustrator so there is really no need for anything more than a good cutting program. I'm running a Roland blade holder and blades in the copam. I'm going to oil the tip of the blade tonight and make another cut. Cut one at lunch and it came out really nice but I think I can wring a little more out of it. I'll post pics when I get home.

[dwp99 283]

I was able to get it cut a little better than this

 

 

Thanks to a post a found by Dakotagrafx on another forum. This is probably THE most important piece of advise(along with blade depth) for any newb or lightly experienced vinyl whacker. I've been running a .12 offset through scalp and 0 on the machine. It's now set to .25 on the machine and 0 in scalp. I'm also replacing scalp with Flexistarter 10 real soon. I do all my file work in Illustrator so there is really no need for anything more than a good cutting program. I'm running a Roland blade holder and blades in the copam. I'm going to oil the tip of the blade tonight and make another cut. Cut one at lunch and it came out really nice but I think I can wring a little more out of it. I'll post pics when I get home.

 

Sluggo,

Glad to hear that you are getting things sorted out.

 

I know everyone's machine is different but I'll post my settings for the Summa D-60.  I run a 36deg Clean Cut blade with .45mm of offset, 120grams of pressure and a speed of 20 ips.

[Wildgoose 4,200]

That pressure seems a little high but I guess you were cutting matte finish. I run mine around 85 or 90 for most vinyl. I am still on the original blade that I started with in june or july of last year. These Summa blades are tough!

[dwp99 283]

Those are some nice tweezers

The tweezers are Rubis brand out of Switzerland  I got them of eBay awhile back  Model #133-3 3/4"

 

That pressure seems a little high but I guess you were cutting matte finish. I run mine around 85 or 90 for most vinyl. I am still on the original blade that I started with in june or july of last year. These Summa blades are tough!

Ya, I probably could back the pressure off a little. I've got it set at the default setting according to the Summa user manual.