Wildgoose

New CC version vs CS5 or 6

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Is there anyone on the forum who has experience with CS5 or CS6 that has upgraded to the new CC version of AI? If so what are your thoughts? I have been mulling over getting a subscription to utilize some of the new options they have out. CS5 to CS6 wasn't much of a leap in technology (love the new look though) so I didn't drop coin on it but I'm liking the sound of some of the new options in the cloud based version. Just not liking the monthly payment idea.

 

Some of the features I see being real useful wound be the new Touch Type tool that lets you manipulate type way more while still remaining live text. The On Art Free Transform tool looks more intuitive than the old style and probably a lot faster and the ability to adjust lines and curves by just dragging them from somewhere on the line rather than from a node is much more like you can do in Inkscape which I have always thought they should figure out. Oh yea, variable width strokes! Way cool! as are the new features in the pattern brush tools menu.

 

I'm probably going to end up trying this out sooner or later but if anyone has already made the jump and has previous experience to compare the older versions I would love to hear some input.

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My work upgraded to it and the capabilities are amazing.  I like the fact that it can be installed on multiple computers and share files between them without emailing, dropbox, or jump drive.  We use PCs where I work as a graphic designer and also installed the CC on my personal iMac at home.  Great new features to manipulate individual text characters without creating outlines and also rounding corner features in Illustrator.  My favorite thing is the access to ALL adobe software for no extra charge with the membership.  If you want Dreamweaver download it...Muse download it...tons of software without having to spend on licenses for each program. Also get the advantage of hosting your own website for free and also creating and publishing apps for free.  Well worth the investment.

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Sweet. So it is cross platform compatible from your work pc to home imac for the file sharing/sync? That's super cool! I can tell just looking at the examples that the new text tools are amazing and real handy. 

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Sweet. So it is cross platform compatible from your work pc to home imac for the file sharing/sync? That's super cool! I can tell just looking at the examples that the new text tools are amazing and real handy. 

Yes you can use it 2 Macs 2 PCs or one of each and share files. Great upgrade and the programs update themselves ever 2 or 3 weeks so you will always have the latest and greatest version.

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How much are the monthly payments?

Im using CS5, which i upgraded to from CS3 that i got in college.

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I think it's $50 a month but if you are a student or are a parent of a student then you can qualify for student pricing for $20 a month at this link:

 

http://www.academicsuperstore.com/students

 

I am probably going to be putting my kids through a rigorous home study program dealing with the adobe suite when the time comes. ;D

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It's $600 for a prepaid yearly subscription...not bad IMO seeing the cost of the individual CS programs before CC was available.  Existing CS customers pay $30 a month for the first year and then $50 a month the next year and so on.  Being that you have access to 41+ programs and features (including 5 free hosted websites and unlimited app publishing) this is a great deal for any graphic designer.  Most of the programs are valued over $200 individually and now with this you can have access to whatever you want and when you want.  You can install or uninstall any program at anytime so if you download InDesign or Dreamweaver and never use them...just uninstall and reinstall if you ever need them again. Plus like I said earlier you will always have the most up to date software so no need to purchase new versions every 2 years.

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Yeah but $600 a year adds up fast...specially if its not needed.

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

I paid good money my CS5 even with my student upgrade...so im gonna keep using it for as long as i can.

Why do i need to upgrade if all the programs i currently have are still getting the job done. Its not food and doesnt "expire" or go bad or really quit working. You upgrade and pay big bucks for new features, but if your current setup and features have been working for years for you why upgrade?

Its like i drive a 1999 Ford truck...still runs great has low miles and looks awesome for a 15 yr old truck. I own it..its mine.

i see no need to go and "lease" a new one because of a few new luxuries..

Essentially that $600 for "access and use" a year is just a lease...after 5 years and $3,000 later if you quit, you end up with nothing afterwards. I would rather drop $3,000 right now for something i can keep and use forever!

Think about it. $600 a year, 5 years ($3,000), 10years ($6,000) and so on. So after lets say 20 yrs in business and $12,000 invested in a software that u dont even really own..

Now if your business is making $50,000 a year in profit...sure drop $600 a year for it maybe.

But for a small shop not making that much...its hard to justify.

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No I completely understand where you are coming from with this.  I am a full time graphic designer...decals are my hobby/side business...so my situation is much different from just a regular sign company who will only use Illustrator and maybe photoshop.  I use Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Muse, Bridge, Acrobat Pro, and a few others (not as much) so for me this is a better offering.  I HAVE to stay updated with software or else I will be left in the dust as where sign shops only really need the basics of creating vector graphics.  My design work requires much more, clipping masks, layers, raster effects, etc that I never use when making decals. I am all the time creating graphics that will never be able to cut for web/print purposes and multiple programs that are required for the different outputs.  I can't create apps and web pages in Ai and Ps alone so this is my reasoning behind the CC...plus my membership is paid for by my company so can't say no to that lol. 

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I design websites and stuff too..but i have no problems with any of my current software...no need to upgrade.

Hell i still have an older version of Macromedia Dreamweaver and Fireworks on one of my old laptops and it still works for editing and creating stuff on the go.

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I have CS5 and have kept track of the upgrades. CS6 has a nice interface and is beautiful compared to CS5 but there are only a couple very minor upgrades and def not worth the cost to do it. I see a lot pf practical application (for a sign only guy like myself) in the CC version of AI, as you say moody, the rest of the pallet is really aimed at other end users (with the exception of PS as Skarekrow has proven here on the forum).  So I won't be using the bulk of the programs but the text tools and the new live corners would be awesome. I am really pissed that they don't have an option to purchase a cd with the program on it. That really bites for those of us who don't necessarily need to stay as updated as you guys who do full time graphic design. I am planning to upgrade my laptop to a macbook one of these days and I will likely give the CC a whirl. I have the mac version of AI CS5 that I can always fall back on if I get tired of paying monthly installments.

 

I also have a copy of CS2 on several other computers as an emergency option but there are enough things missing from CS5 that I hate to use the older version. It's surprising how much you use some of those upgrades and I may find myself in the same boat with CC and hating to get by without the extras that it offers and the continued upgrades that they will likely keep coming out with as it goes along.  

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Yeah but $600 a year adds up fast...specially if its not needed.

If it aint broke, dont fix it.

I paid good money my CS5 even with my student upgrade...so im gonna keep using it for as long as i can.

Why do i need to upgrade if all the programs i currently have are still getting the job done. Its not food and doesnt "expire" or go bad or really quit working. You upgrade and pay big bucks for new features, but if your current setup and features have been working for years for you why upgrade?

Its like i drive a 1999 Ford truck...still runs great has low miles and looks awesome for a 15 yr old truck. I own it..its mine.

i see no need to go and "lease" a new one because of a few new luxuries..

Essentially that $600 for "access and use" a year is just a lease...after 5 years and $3,000 later if you quit, you end up with nothing afterwards. I would rather drop $3,000 right now for something i can keep and use forever!

Think about it. $600 a year, 5 years ($3,000), 10years ($6,000) and so on. So after lets say 20 yrs in business and $12,000 invested in a software that u dont even really own..

Now if your business is making $50,000 a year in profit...sure drop $600 a year for it maybe.

But for a small shop not making that much...its hard to justify.

This may be my finance background coming out on this; your logic of the $50/month instead of the one time cost is way off.

 

If you have the $3,000 to spend on the software right now and choose to do the $50/month version instead you can take the additional $2,950 and invest it (either in the business or a no load, market mutual fund - which historically would net you returns of about 12%/year, even more the last few years). If you invested in the mutual fund you would go from $3,000 (invested and earning 1% interest/month = $2,950*1.01=$2,979.50 - $50/month charge= $2,929.50) to $2,929.50 as opposed to $2,900. If you continue to do the math on it (I did) you are left with $1,312.50 after 5 years instead of $0. On the other hand you can spend $3,000 all at once, not invest the other money and be left with an extremely out of date software after 5 years (but, hey, you own it!) where your competitors will have extremely increased productivity allowing them to do the work in X% of the time compared to your archaic technology. (At this point most people blame their bad business decisions on big companies like Wal-Mart and say that's why they can't compete instead of owning up to the fact they weren't actively working on a way to create value to their customers).

 

By no means is this an attack on you, I simply want people to think about this and give their feedback because it's a completely different way to look at it. I, too, have been doing this as a side income for about 7 years and am an anomoly in the fact that I am a Finance person in a creative person's domain here. I envy everyone's creative talents, I just bring a cost savings/$ efficient way that most people don't consider that makes up for my lack of creativity. If I could find a good, creative person to partner with, we'd do very well!

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cdugger, interesting concept but I think you are missing some data. I don't know if you are very familiar with AI or not but on the sign building side of things (which uses a relatively small part of the programs true capability) the differences between the various versions aren't going to make much difference in productivity. Kind of like the difference between the old 10B and the 10BII. In some instances having the the old standby that you are really comfortable with may even be faster than the new bells and whistles. Even an, as you put it, "archaic" version of AI like CS2 in the hands of someone who understands the program is a formidable tool still on par with every other vector design tool out there. The newer versions are even more amazing but ultimately for vinyl work only a few differences exist and they are just simplified ways of doing old functions. For instance in CS6 they changed the tracing engine (which some claim doesn't work as good as CS5) and they added gradient stroke capability. Well for vinyl the gradient strokes is a non issue unless you are a printer and even then in CS5 you just have to expand the stroke and then you can apply a gradient to it so, while handy, it doesn't justify the cost of upgrading. The CC version has a few more drastic changes that are really sweet but ultimately there was still a way to do the same thing but it was slightly more time consuming. If you are doing complicated investment calculations you would have to narrow down how often one used the upgraded items and how much time they actually save and I think in the end the biggest reason for upgrading won't be a production based decision, it will boil down to version compatibility and other reasons. For me it may simply be having the new version just to have the new version but that's not a good reason from a financial prospective. 

 

If you are a full on graphic design guy who uses all the other programs that come with the adobe suite then it's a different thing all together.

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Wild Goose,

 

You do have good points on that front, and I agree with that to some extent. The big point I feel is the fact of fronting all of the money when you could be using that same money to invest in something else. That is where there is a lot of opportunity cost incurred. If you only need one specific part of the program you can always buy an older version of that program and negate the entire huge expenditure discussed and it would be a fraction of the amount. Could I have been missing some data? Absolutely! Is there other facets being misconstrued to establish a irrelevent agenda in order to seem superior? Maybe...

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I kinda see it like renting or owning a house. If u buy a house..you own it but youre stuck with it for a long time even when things go out of date...but you own it.

Renting a house..when done..you dont own it..you have nothing..but u can always leave and go rent a newer updated house...but in the end years later u wont own it.

I would rather buy and own the current version and have the ability to use it forever..for as long as it meets my needs.

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I kinda see it like renting or owning a house. If u buy a house..you own it but youre stuck with it for a long time even when things go out of date...but you own it.

Renting a house..when done..you dont own it..you have nothing..but u can always leave and go rent a newer updated house...but in the end years later u wont own it.

I would rather buy and own the current version and have the ability to use it forever..for as long as it meets my needs.

I'm with you GC I don't like the thought of renting for the rest of my business life. However if the only houses that were for sale were 1970's split levels but you could rent a sweet brand new home with all the modern conveniences it would make you think about it. I have yet to take the plunge and still probably will even for just a test drive for a while. 

 

 

Wild Goose,

 

You do have good points on that front, and I agree with that to some extent. The big point I feel is the fact of fronting all of the money when you could be using that same money to invest in something else. That is where there is a lot of opportunity cost incurred. If you only need one specific part of the program you can always buy an older version of that program and negate the entire huge expenditure discussed and it would be a fraction of the amount. Could I have been missing some data? Absolutely! Is there other facets being misconstrued to establish a irrelevent agenda in order to seem superior? Maybe...

There is no huge expenditure option. You either pay $600 for a year or the monthly payment. I see your point about investing the money elsewhere and totally agree that if you can get by with cheaper it makes more financial sense to do so. You just can't get there with the cloud though. You either stay with the old programs or pay the price. Not every decision I make is based on if it makes sound financial sense, if I stuck with that I probably would never have stuck my neck out to try a vinyl cutter in the first place. This thread was started to draw some real user feedback on the new CC version which Moody Blue has been kind enough to grace us with. This isn't an abacus vs supercomputer comparison so the intent I had when I asked the first question was how cool are the apparent upgrades and has anyone been using them that can give me some feedback. If you think I was trying to talk down to you for some reason you are mistaken and I am sorry if my response made you feel that way. 

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I don't even use illy but I'm an owner type of person not a renter. As far as investing when the economy collapsed in 08 I almost lost everything and if I had been heavily invested I may still be looking for extended unemployment benefits so I choose to buy what I need and scurry away what's left in my mattress before bif brother or another failing company gets it.

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Sharing files might be plus of CC over CS, but the 2 computer install is actually true of CS6 too. I just purchased the CS6 suite, and I have the right to install it on 2 computers. I personally didn't like the idea of the pay per month plan. I want to own it - FOREVER! 

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one note on the math above - it is calculated on an upgrade every year when in fact the major upgrades that require the fees are about every 2 years . . . which makes the $3K above actually about $1500 at most if you do every upgrade.  I hate the money scheme they have come up with to fight piracy.  I understand it gives them more control and they make it appear you get all the free updates but I like having it on my computer that might not be connected to the internet (making the cloud version unusable

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That was another thing I was worried about. I am in the middle of nowhere using Hughesnet who has a 20 GB a month limit. I didn't want to deal with overages because of some cloud based program. I do believe you can use it offline though... not sure of all the ins and outs. After I started doing some quick math on the monthly/yearly price - I went right to work searching for the older CS version to buy. 

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one note on the math above - it is calculated on an upgrade every year when in fact the major upgrades that require the fees are about every 2 years . . . which makes the $3K above actually about $1500 at most if you do every upgrade.  I hate the money scheme they have come up with to fight piracy.  I understand it gives them more control and they make it appear you get all the free updates but I like having it on my computer that might not be connected to the internet (making the cloud version unusable

Here is another side of the coin that no one is probably thinking about except adobe...what motivation do they now have to even mess with upgrades? They control a large part of the market. The only reason to sink R&D money into the existing program would be to stay ahead of the competition. In the past they always had a new version and folks who were worried about it did the upgrades but there will be less motivation for them to do anything major. Some of the other utilities in the entire suite may see the need for big changes but not Illustrator specifically yet the CC subscriber will be paying for all and then some. I have never upgraded from the CS5 so far because there wasn't really anything new to blow the money on. I don't use the other programs so I have no need for the entire suite and just bought AI as a stand alone program. I'm going to at least try the CC version out at some point in the future if for no other reason than to try out a few of the new tools they came out with but I may not become an automaton and just sit there plugging in hard earned cash every month when I can just use my CS5 version which I own.

 

On the other side of the coin, watching Skarekrow bust out quick work with PS to AI conversions I can see that the two programs work pretty seamlessly together and while using the CC I may find that it's pretty great having access to some of the other programs that I have not had to date so.....eh maybe it will end up being the way I go and the CS5 will be my back-up who knows. 

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