jaybyrd 3,770 Posted January 16, 2014 Ive made decals like that. Just keep logos and names out of the picture. Ebay told me over the phone that even the name of cars is ok as long as its not using the whole name. like Titan is ok, but Nissan Titan is not. I don't sell my stuff on ebay so this may seem like a dumb question but if someone decides to pursue you for infringement even though ebay said it's fine will they provide legal services? I see all the crap on ebay and all I can say is they are a reactive company, not proactive meaning they think everytthing is fine until somebody complains. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 16, 2014 Yea i dont trust ebay. I still dont use names and logos. But a tracing of a car is not gonna cause any problems. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 16, 2014 I don't sell my stuff on ebay so this may seem like a dumb question but if someone decides to pursue you for infringement even though ebay said it's fine will they provide legal services? I see all the crap on ebay and all I can say is they are a reactive company, not proactive meaning they think everytthing is fine until somebody complains. actually any complaint by the owner of the image and they take it down - so there is never a problem for them - you are just seeing the ones that actually get by somehow. after i got hit on the hemi stripe I saw dozens of them still up - not sure how they decide who is going to get hit and who doesn't but it sure isn't a fair fight 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 16, 2014 anyone else have Déjà vu ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 16, 2014 ps did ya all think I was serious when I said I didn't get it? ummmm and added products to the post! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted January 16, 2014 Now you're contracting with Oracal too? Share the wealth lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 16, 2014 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dakotagrafx" data-cid="341315" data-time="1389885258"><p> actually any complaint by the owner of the image and they take it down - so there is never a problem for them - you are just seeing the ones that actually get by somehow. after i got hit on the hemi stripe I saw dozens of them still up - not sure how they decide who is going to get hit and who doesn't but it sure isn't a fair fight</p></blockquote> Was the Hemi stripe a copy of the offical one? You can make your own stripes and sell them it just cant say Hemi. I see a lot of listings for generic logos that say "like dodge ram" imo some of the generic stuff is cooler but the selling power isnt there like it is the official stuff. Thats why people want to sell the real deal cause its easy money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 16, 2014 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dakotagrafx" data-cid="341315" data-time="1389885258"><p>actually any complaint by the owner of the image and they take it down - so there is never a problem for them - you are just seeing the ones that actually get by somehow. after i got hit on the hemi stripe I saw dozens of them still up - not sure how they decide who is going to get hit and who doesn't but it sure isn't a fair fight</p></blockquote> Was the Hemi stripe a copy of the offical one? You can make your own stripes and sell them it just cant say Hemi. I see a lot of listings for generic logos that say "like dodge ram" imo some of the generic stuff is cooler but the selling power isnt there like it is the official stuff. Thats why people want to sell the real deal cause its easy money. one said Hemi that they claimed rights to and the other was a cool tribal ram I have on my truck (Mine also says hemi) and they claimed they owned all the rams heads too - I disagree but couldn't afford to fight it -I was actually talking directly to the chrysler person in the end so it wasn't third hand the one was like the one on my truck but without the hemi - I know other people sell them but they was on me like justin beiber in a prison shower . . . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 16, 2014 I think the ram would be fine by its self. Adding it to the dodge stripe and hemi words made them notice. Theres a guy on ebay who sells a ram logo but markets it as "like dodge ram" it seems to sell pretty good. Been on there a while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 16, 2014 Make your own ram logo and market it as laptop,car, jeep,truck ,ram ,animal decal. There are generics to everything. Even iphone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 16, 2014 the second one they pulled was just that tribal rams head - wasn't theirs but it got pulled. yet they never pulled all the rumble bee decals that was on there . . . . I made one for those for dads truck though at 74 he still likes fast trucks. this was his last one - haven't done the new one yet 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cal 393 Posted January 17, 2014 Good for dad! Hope I am enjoying life at 74... Cal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bayshorecreations 30 Posted January 17, 2014 Does every car dealership in america have the authorization from every car maker to photograph and use images of their cars? The answer is no! If you take a photograph it is yours to use however you choose. As long as it does not degrade the product in any way and you can prove that you took the photo you will have no problems with this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted January 17, 2014 Actually..they do...if they are a licensed and authorized dealer. I highly doubt a local Ford dealership is going to do more than post an ad in the paper for trying to sell a used Toyota in their lot...they wont be making big banners and signs and etc for it...like they do for their Ford products. And under your theory...i can take a photo of a Harley Davidson logo and sell those photos, cuz they are mine......and Harley wont do anything?? Eehh wrong...i can do whatever i want personally with it...but not commercially... The moment i take a personal photo of their logo and try to mass produce it and sell it without their permission and license..they have the right to sue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted January 17, 2014 Most dealerships don't even own the full rights to their signage so that if you lose you contract with Ford, Chevy or whoever they can remove any signage with their logo on it. This happened to the Jeep/Chrysler dealer where I grew up when the economy took a dump and they restructured the cancelled his franchise in what they claimed was a cost cutting measure and sent a company in to pull down all the signs with their logos on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 17, 2014 I was the manager at a radio shack dealer (after working for a company store) and one of the first dish network dealers in the country - ummm yes they do own it and you even had to send copies of anything you did, including ads, for prior approval before print 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted January 17, 2014 If you take a photograph it is yours to use however you choose. What law school did you learn that in? When the people who follow your legal sounding advice end up in court, they might like to know the legal cases who's precedence you're referring to, to use in their defense... IANAL - BIPOOTV* * I Am Not A Lawyer - But I Play One On TV 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 18, 2014 I think it all comes down to common sense. Logos and names are of course going to be protected. You cant use a nike swoosh logo. But you can make a decal thats says example " nike shoes rule" as long as the word nike doesnt match the official font. You cant do the offical Ram logo or name. But you can make a generic ram logo and have it say " Ram This!" Houses, buildings, cars, common objects, machines,atvs etc... are fair game. I dont know anyone busted for selling world trade center decals or car decals or chainsaw decals. You can make a 9mm gun, but not a Glock logo. Just use common sense in most cases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted January 18, 2014 Logos and names are of course going to be protected. You cant use a nike swoosh logo. But you can make a decal thats says example " nike shoes rule" as long as the word nike doesnt match the official font. You cant do the offical Ram logo or name. But you can make a generic ram logo and have it say " Ram This!" Close - you could say "Nike Rules" and probably be OK, as long as you avoid Nike style fonts, because you could be referring to Nike missles or the Greek goddess Nike, etc. As soon as you pair the words "Nike" and "shoes" together, you are violating their trademark as their trademark covers all use of the word "Nike" as it relates to shoes, apparel, athletic gear, etc. Copyright and Trademark are very murky issues and it's best to avoid all brand names and logos unless you are absolutely 100% certain that you have approval to do so. Check the Wikipedia entries for Trademark and Copyright or subscribe to the Techdirt blog where these are regular topics of discussion and they have numerous examples of how these laws are twisted and used to stop competition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2CT Media 25 Posted January 18, 2014 Even the Nike reference is wrong... they own the trademark in the word NIKE in all uses for and not for profit. They even have a legal standing if someone wants ts to name their kid Nike in the US. Like I have said and may other reiterated, Trademarks & copyrights cover everything from likeness, exact copy, altered copy, general reference, and much more. A lot of times the scale of infraction is so small that they stand nothing to gain in pursuing it, but other companies like to send a message and pursue any infraction no matter the cost. Also on the subject of photos, yes you own the photo but the trademark and copyright hold still owns the likeness. If you wanted to use the photo for profit or out of the real em of what they want their image to be associated with they can stop you from using it and possibly sue for damages. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Go-C Graphics 856 Posted January 18, 2014 Even the Nike reference is wrong... they own the trademark in the word NIKE in all uses for and not for profit. They even have a legal standing if someone wants ts to name their kid Nike in the US.Like I have said and may other reiterated, Trademarks & copyrights cover everything from likeness, exact copy, altered copy, general reference, and much more. A lot of times the scale of infraction is so small that they stand nothing to gain in pursuing it, but other companies like to send a message and pursue any infraction no matter the cost. Also on the subject of photos, yes you own the photo but the trademark and copyright hold still owns the likeness. If you wanted to use the photo for profit or out of the real em of what they want their image to be associated with they can stop you from using it and possibly sue for damages. My question is............... How do we have magazines, newspapers, TV, and the internet? All of these venues profit from what they print and show. The News shows a Ford mustang crashed into a house. Wouldn't that be trademark infringement? The Paper shows a Toyota emblem as they report on a Prius brake recall. I can't legally post a picture of my Nissan pathfinder on this forum with my company logo on it? Holy crap can I legally type out Nissan Pathfinder? What about graphtec? They own these words. What about if I change the font. Nissan Pathfinder , Graphtec Everyone that posted a picture of their plotter needs to pull it down or pay up because they are infringing on the plotter company's trademark. This being a law abiding citizen thing is going to suck................. I'm completely kidding but I'm throwing these examples out there for people to argue over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 18, 2014 My question is............... How do we have magazines, newspapers, TV, and the internet? All of these venues profit from what they print and show. The News shows a Ford mustang crashed into a house. Wouldn't that be trademark infringement? The Paper shows a Toyota emblem as they report on a Prius brake recall. I can't legally post a picture of my Nissan pathfinder on this forum with my company logo on it? Holy crap can I legally type out Nissan Pathfinder? What about graphtec? They own these words. What about if I change the font. Nissan Pathfinder , Graphtec Everyone that posted a picture of their plotter needs to pull it down or pay up because they are infringing on the plotter company's trademark. This being a law abiding citizen thing is going to suck................. I'm completely kidding but I'm throwing these examples out there for people to argue over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted January 18, 2014 My question is............... How do we have magazines, newspapers, TV, and the internet? All of these venues profit from what they print and show. The News shows a Ford mustang crashed into a house. Wouldn't that be trademark infringement? The Paper shows a Toyota emblem as they report on a Prius brake recall. I can't legally post a picture of my Nissan pathfinder on this forum with my company logo on it? Holy crap can I legally type out Nissan Pathfinder? What about graphtec? They own these words. What about if I change the font. Nissan Pathfinder , Graphtec Everyone that posted a picture of their plotter needs to pull it down or pay up because they are infringing on the plotter company's trademark. This being a law abiding citizen thing is going to suck................. I'm completely kidding but I'm throwing these examples out there for people to argue over. There are exceptions to copyright and trademark law when it comes to reporting factual information, such as the news. Graphtec could pull down all the plotter pictures people post if they wanted to - take a picture of a naked 400 lb fat man sitting on top of a Graphtec and label it "Hey, baby, want to see my huge 'Graphtec'?" and put it some place where their lawyers can see it and see if they don't send you a less than politely worded message... Nike does not own ALL rights to the word Nike, because it has been used in other circumstances, such as those I quoted above. Nike owns rights to the Nike logo, the swoosh, "Just Do It", etc. and has the trademark rights to a series of product lines that they specified when they registered their trademark. I can't legally make a Nike Shirt - but I can make a Nike Missile Shirt - or a Nike the Greek Goddess Shirt, etc. Copyrights are granted to cover the specific expression of an idea, not the idea itself. Patents cover ideas/inventions. Trademarks are for use in business and primarily to prevent customer confusion or misrepresentation of a competitor's product. Nike has registered their trademark for shoes, apparel, athletic gear, etc., meaning you can't use the word Nike with any of those items (there are probably other product lines they have registered that I am not aware about, consider this an incomplete list). You can NOT register a trademark for "Every single possible use of the word or phrase that now or ever may exist". Trademark law doesn't work that way. Take the story of Apple Corps vs. Apple, Inc. They went back and forth numerous times, even though they were completely different companies in different countries selling different products - right up until Apple, Inc. said "hey, let's create the worlds largest music store - in direct violation of the 'we're a computer company, why would we ever sell music?' agreement that we signed with Apple Records" and then they got sued again. Apple, Inc. eventually won, but it still cost them a ton of money in the process. You can legally create a business called Nike <Product> as long as it doesn't conflict with their trademarked product lines, and as long as you avoid using anything that resembles their logo *and* as long as there is no risk of customer confusion. They will still probably try and sue you and be able to bankrupt you, but if you have deep enough pockets you can fight it and probably win. The problem is, Nike has really deep pockets and most businesses can't hope to outlast them in court. For example, you could probably get away with "Nike Go-Karts" and put a picture of a Nike missile in your logo - or include an image of the Greek Goddess of the same name, but only as long as Nike's trademark doesn't specify "Go-Karts" as a product line. If you call it "Nike Go-Karts" and put a swoosh underneath with the words "Just Ride It!", then you deserve what's coming to you... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted January 18, 2014 I tried that same logic with "hemi" - Chevy had a hemi engine in the last 60's for a short time -- it didn't matter I still couldn't use it this horse has been beaten so much you could cut it with a spoon - no knife needed. let those that want to play with the big names find out for themselves Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JessXEmoji 46 Posted January 20, 2014 So in other words anything you can see cant be used. Good thing the world isnt that anal just yet. But its getting there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
