gcextreme

Tracing Your Photos of Copyrighted stuff

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Ok heres a tricky question....

 

what if i take a photo of a truck, my truck, and modify and trace it, into a cutable image, where that said truck is really no longer recognizable, is that legal??

 

Heres an example, this is my friends truck, i took the photo when we were out offroading.

He wants me to make it into a cutable image for a decal.

ChrisDewald_sample_zps6124d546.jpg

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There is no logo on there so I can't see how you could be breaking any laws but then again I'm not a lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

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Yes technically you are still breaking copyright laws by using a branded likeness. The thing is most people don't enforce it unless you are using their logo with the likeness.

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I think there are some expectations also considering he paid good money fro the truck and should have some control over his own "likeness". I have had 6 or 7 jeeps over the years and for a while they were getting touchy about calling the act of off-roading "Jeeping" because they own the Jeep Trademark. Well one thing led to another and of course most Jeep owners are pretty down to earth, when word got out that Chrysler was getting bent of the whole deal the general consensus was "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?!?!" Didn't take long for the PC idiots to realize they stood to loose a lot more by upsetting the applecart than by letting every Tom, Dick and Harry do them a huge PR favor and keep using the company name everywhere so it kind of just stopped being a big deal. 

 

I used a modified Jeep for my avatar on the pirate 4x4 forum for years and kept almost hoping they would hard time me but no one ever did. 

post-20133-0-82430400-1389672100_thumb.j

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I think there are some expectations also considering he paid good money fro the truck and should have some control over his own "likeness". I have had 6 or 7 jeeps over the years and for a while they were getting touchy about calling the act of off-roading "Jeeping" because they own the Jeep Trademark. Well one thing led to another and of course most Jeep owners are pretty down to earth, when word got out that Chrysler was getting bent of the whole deal the general consensus was "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?!?!" Didn't take long for the PC idiots to realize they stood to loose a lot more by upsetting the applecart than by letting every Tom, Dick and Harry do them a huge PR favor and keep using the company name everywhere so it kind of just stopped being a big deal. 

 

I used a modified Jeep for my avatar on the pirate 4x4 forum for years and kept almost hoping they would hard time me but no one ever did. 

 

This goes back to the whole "Band-Aid", "Xerox", "Kleenex" trademark issue - if you allow your trademarked word/phrase to become too generic (i.e., allow people to refer to all adhesive bandages as "Band-Aids", refer to photocopiers as "Xerox machines", allow people to refer to off-roading as "Jeeping") then you risk dilution of your trademark to the point where you can actually lose the trademark on your word/phrase.  You think you're doing them a favor by constantly using their trademarked word/phrase, but if you're using it out of context, you are not helping them any.

 

You have to stay on top of trademark violations or risk losing them.  Copyrights are the ones you can choose to go after or ignore and not risk losing ownership - you just don't have that luxury with trademarks.

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You seem to have a lot of copyright questions.

 

You should probably start doing your research and informing yourself. These guys are great and very smart but your still relying on a bunch of internet posts.

 

I hope you aren't taking these posts as legal advice. 

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Ok heres a tricky question....

 

what if i take a photo of a truck, my truck, and modify and trace it, into a cutable image, where that said truck is really no longer recognizable, is that legal??

 

Heres an example, this is my friends truck, i took the photo when we were out offroading.

He wants me to make it into a cutable image for a decal.

ChrisDewald_sample_zps6124d546.jpg

If I were planning on selling the decal, I would definately make some changes to the headlights to further eliminate the brand.

The rest of it looks like most any other small/ midsize truck. Def wanna clean off any indications of brand if planning to offer it to others.

If you were just wanting to throw a decal on your or your buddy's truck, well...  I probably would still clean it up.

The fact that the photo belongs to you is also an important Issue too. If it wasn't your image I would say, "Don't use it at all".

I've read some interesting articles lately about lawyers who's business model is built around developing cases against folks using

other peoples images. It can put a pretty big hole in your pocket.

 

As others have mentioned, I am not a lawyer either. What I have written is the way I would handle it.

We each takes our own chances in life. We have to consider the Consequences as well as the Rewards.

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A while back, a Mustang club in California or somewhere, made a calender of their members mustangs. Ford decided they were going to bust them for copyright infringement. Said they own the rights, to the mustand image, in any and eveything, or something like that.

 

Course, there could always be more to the story too.

 

If you get down to the fine print in the Harley Davidson copyrights, you would find out, that if YOU re-painted YOUR harley, and airbrushed harley davidson on the tank, you would be violating harley's copyrights.

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A while back, a Mustang club in California or somewhere, made a calender of their members mustangs. Ford decided they were going to bust them for copyright infringement. Said they own the rights, to the mustand image, in any and eveything, or something like that.

 

Course, there could always be more to the story too.

 

If you get down to the fine print in the Harley Davidson copyrights, you would find out, that if YOU re-painted YOUR harley, and airbrushed harley davidson on the tank, you would be violating harley's copyrights.

I read about this and in the end they claimed it was a big misunderstanding and backed down from their attack on the club and the calendar maker.

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I think there are some expectations also considering he paid good money fro the truck and should have some control over his own "likeness". I have had 6 or 7 jeeps over the years and for a while they were getting touchy about calling the act of off-roading "Jeeping" because they own the Jeep Trademark. Well one thing led to another and of course most Jeep owners are pretty down to earth, when word got out that Chrysler was getting bent of the whole deal the general consensus was "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!?!?!" Didn't take long for the PC idiots to realize they stood to loose a lot more by upsetting the applecart than by letting every Tom, Dick and Harry do them a huge PR favor and keep using the company name everywhere so it kind of just stopped being a big deal. 

 

I used a modified Jeep for my avatar on the pirate 4x4 forum for years and kept almost hoping they would hard time me but no one ever did. 

That's not a Jeep. Jeep's have round headlights, we all know this. (sorry couldn't help myself :) )

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Ok even if i change the headlights..its still a small midsize truck....and then any manufacturer of small midsize trucks could easily claim its a copy off theirs...from the chevy s10/colorado to dodge dakota to toyota tacoma.

No im not looking for legal advice..just opinons and info from those with experience.

If i draw an outline of a camera...Cannon or Nikon could claim its theirs..to no end...

Hell even all those silhouttes of stuff could be claimed..oh that silhoutte of that truck is clearly a chevy...we own all things chevy related..blah blah.

Harley could claim a motorcycle silhoutte is theirs!!

If you draw a glass mug...some glass mug making company could sue u.

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Things have gotten out of control in the world we live in. I'd make it until I got a paper in the mail telling me not to. Sounds goofey but really some of this stuff is just plain crazy and many times they know they can't win in court but they also know that most can't afford to go to court and defend themselves. Bully mentality.

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Ok even if i change the headlights..its still a small midsize truck....and then any manufacturer of small midsize trucks could easily claim its a copy off theirs...from the chevy s10/colorado to dodge dakota to toyota tacoma. No im not looking for legal advice..just opinons and info from those with experience. If i draw an outline of a camera...Cannon or Nikon could claim its theirs..to no end... Hell even all those silhouttes of stuff could be claimed..oh that silhoutte of that truck is clearly a chevy...we own all things chevy related..blah blah. Harley could claim a motorcycle silhoutte is theirs!! If you draw a glass mug...some glass mug making company could sue u.

In "My opinion" if you are going to make your buddy a decal of HIS TRUCK for HIM you probably won't have much to worry about. If you are planning on doing a mass sales decal all over the internet and making big bucks off it then you have another thing altogether. 

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It's all about approach and quantity. If you make a handful of them for you and your buddy... most companies aren't magic, they won't even know about it. If you make hundreds of them and start selling them locally and/or online then they may take notice. If it is a strong likeness they may pursue it, if it's vague they wont... your last argument doesn't make sense for the fact that Ford could pursue all other manufacturers for copying their pick up truck likeness... I mean come on they have a open top bed and a 2 door cab, it's exactly like their truck.

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Though in Civil Court the Plaintiff doesn't have the same burden of proof as Criminal Court, they still have to prove thier case.

If the image in question can't be shown to be their property they are gonna have a hard time proving a violation.

As mentioned by others, Intent will have bearing in the case as well.

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You guys are getting right to the point I got to a year or two ago when I made a funny version of the Harley logo. I changed it to Hardly Davidson and thought it was great, even had a good friend who is a very accomplished attorney tell me I was totally protected under the fair use act. The point of it all is "protected" in my case and "burden of proof" in yours both spell legal court action. I decided not to pursue the decal because I didn't want to have to defend myself in court against an aggressive, very large and prosperous company. Win or loose I would have probably lost just because they have the buying power to stop production and tie it up in court for about three generations. I don't appreciate being bullied but there is a point where common sense has to come into play and it just wasn't worth the risk.

 

That being said I have a real cool "Hardly Davidson" sweatshirt that I proudly wear all over the place and get lots of comments but it's the only one like it on the planet. 

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Yeah but where do u draw the line when it comes to "likeness".

I mean there are thousands of images of "check marks" on the web and everywhere, and Nike could sue on the account of "likeness"..

The same goes for trucks and cars. Lets say Ford came up with the first small truck, well when chevy made theirs Ford could have sued..."no we own the rights to a small truck with a cab and a bed".

When the first three wheeler came out...lets say Honda made it...then Yamaha copied it and made theirs.

Of course there mechanical patents involved...but if i was to draw and paint a 3 wheeler...who would have the rights to claim it. Maybe if i did in red, Honda would assume its theirs. Or if it was yellow then Yamaha would say its theirs (old yamahas were yellow).

It kinda gets crazy.

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Your questions would be best answered by a lawyer who specializes in copyright and trademark laws. Everything we tell you is pure speculation, at best.

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Our litigious society has gotten totally out of hand... Guess that's to be expected when we allow the lawyers and the wealthy to run the show.

Yeah... go ask an attorney ! (preferably a wealthy one)  Ha!

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Yeah but where do u draw the line when it comes to "likeness". I mean there are thousands of images of "check marks" on the web and everywhere, and Nike could sue on the account of "likeness".. The same goes for trucks and cars. Lets say Ford came up with the first small truck, well when chevy made theirs Ford could have sued..."no we own the rights to a small truck with a cab and a bed". When the first three wheeler came out...lets say Honda made it...then Yamaha copied it and made theirs. Of course there mechanical patents involved...but if i was to draw and paint a 3 wheeler...who would have the rights to claim it. Maybe if i did in red, Honda would assume its theirs. Or if it was yellow then Yamaha would say its theirs (old yamahas were yellow). It kinda gets crazy.

ummm not if you had the one I had growing up (was my pride and joy kept at my grandparents!).   honda nor yamaha would have claimed it but I loved it!    Hard to flip but when you did plan on sprained arms legs - ohhh the good ole days

 

$_57.JPG

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Our litigious society has gotten totally out of hand... Guess that's to be expected when we allow the lawyers and the wealthy to run the show.

Yeah... go ask an attorney ! (preferably a wealthy one)  Ha!

The richer the atty. the more likely he's been winning his cases and know what he's doing. Either that or he's just robbing people blind, sometimes it's hard to tell teh difference.

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I had Honda 110 but a friend had 1 like yours Scott and that thing was a blast to drive. one question that red thing the guy in the picture is holding, I don't recall having 1 of those when was bouncing through the woods on my Honda. Back then safety wasn't in the public eye as much as it is today and we lived under the rule of no blood, no harm.

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We were into snowmobiling so I had to wear my helmet - when at grandmas you had to wear the safety gear but it had independent rear brakes so you could grab one and slide sideways into the corners (making your own berm in a short time) and lots of power.  like I said it didn't go over easy but when it did it was going to hurt and the roll bar was about shoulder high - something they fixed a couple of years later

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