JHew84

CE5000 vs CE6000

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I've been scouring the internet for a few days now and haven't really found a good answer to my question. I went to order a zencut green the other day because they appeared to get one back in stock but I was out of luck, so now I have some credit towards another cutter and I'm thinking about making the jump to a graphtec. The driving force behind my decision on the zencut was the price and the servo motor. The graphtec isn't as nice of a price but I'm still interested in getting a machine that does a better job than my current MH series. I talked to someone who claimed the CE6000 was mostly superficial updates over the CE5000 and that I would be better off saving some money and getting the CE5000 starter kit (less money, plus a bunch of supplies). So my questions:

 

Is this true?

What are the real differences between the two models?

How much value would you place on the updates to the CE6000?

 

 

 

At this point I'm already pretty well established locally and I have a good selection of vinyl and tools. So while the extra supplies that come with the starter kit wouldn't go unused I also don't necessarily need them, but if the CE6000 isn't much of an improvement it would still make sense to pay less money and get more stuff. That's what I did when I bought a DSLR years ago, I bought the previous years model at a drastically reduced price. The only difference was a slightly larger LCD screen which didn't bother me.

 

I'll be upgrading from an MH 871-mk2, so really anything will be better. I Just want to make sure I get the most for my money as I'm still a small operation. I don't have a printer so I only do die-cut decals, business would really have to take off before I could afford to get into printed decals. 

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Unless paying an extra $50 is out of your budget,  I would go with the Newer 6000..-60.    Sorry,, that Greenstar  vinyl is ok for practice,  about it.  If you have been in business for awhile,  I can't see how that bundle stuff would help you really.  And Your getting the  SCALP software anyway.  I would go with the newer model.   That is my opinion.  And I will be telling my son the same thing next year. 

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If you look on the USCUTTER website, there is not anything available in 30" Graphtec models (your MH 871 is 30") until you jump to the Graphtec 8600 30" model, for $4200.

(The Graphtec 5000 and 6000 series isn't offered in 30" size and the FC8000 shows out of stock in 30")

 

In other words, you would have to abandon your functioning and profitable MH unit, and invest Four Thousand Two Hundred Dollars to replace it with an equally-wide 30" Graphtec model from USCUTTER.

 

Those are the facts.

I hope this helped you.

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I have a 30" cutter collecting dust right now. In 5 years there have been less than a dozen times that I've needed more than a 24" machine.

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Unless paying an extra $50 is out of your budget,  I would go with the Newer 6000..-60.    Sorry,, that Greenstar  vinyl is ok for practice,  about it.  If you have been in business for awhile,  I can't see how that bundle stuff would help you really.  And Your getting the  SCALP software anyway.  I would go with the newer model.   That is my opinion.  And I will be telling my son the same thing next year. 

 

But why? I'm by no means an expert so I may be overlooking features that the newer model gained over the CE5000. From what I can tell the 6000 cuts a bit faster, but I rarely cut at full speed anyway and my orders are not so large and so frequent that I need to minimize the time the material is on the cutter. My snags typically come from weeding, so I have time to let the cutter run 90% of time. Also I really prefer SignBlazer, I've used a few other cutting softwares and did not like them as much. Other than that personally I don't see much difference, I'm just wondering if there's something that I'm missing.

 

Also I've been pretty impressed with greenstar. I've had a few customers request it over the oracle/avery vinyl I also stock. The only complaint I've ever had was from a 3m film I was forced to sell when my cutter went down and I had to have a local sign shop make some decals for me in the mean time. Regardless it's still extra vinyl and that is worth something, I'd set the difference in value a bit higher than $50. But I also wouldn't want to just throw away $50 for negligible differences in the machines themselves, if that makes any sense.

 

If you look on the USCUTTER website, there is not anything available in 30" Graphtec models (your MH 871 is 30") until you jump to the Graphtec 8600 30" model, for $4200.

(The Graphtec 5000 and 6000 series isn't offered in 30" size and the FC8000 shows out of stock in 30")

 

In other words, you would have to abandon your functioning and profitable MH unit, and invest Four Thousand Two Hundred Dollars to replace it with an equally-wide 30" Graphtec model from USCUTTER.

 

Those are the facts.

I hope this helped you.

 

98% of my stock is in 24" rolls, I rarely find the need to cut something on a larger roll. Additionally I will not be getting rid of my MH series cutter so if the need for a wider graphic did arise I would still have it available. I'm just getting frustrated at the lack of small decal precision that it has. The zencut green was a 24" cutter as well, I'm alright with that.

 

 

 

I'm really just looking for any solid reasons to choose between the CE5000 and CE6000 at this point. I've purchased older models for many pieces of electronics because the newer models didn't offer much more than a different model # and a couple superficial features. I just want to make sure that is/is not the case with these graphtec machines. Or if there's another machine in the same price range that uses a servo motor I'm open to those suggestions as well.

 

Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming! I do appreciate it.

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I was only comparing apples to apples, MH871 30" to Graphtec 30" -- 

The discussion about 24" vs. 30" cutters is a conversation which has been going on in many threads.

I certainly had no intention of rehashing that here.

 

 

 

Now, I notice that he has clarified and will accept a 24" Graphtec.

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The reality or not ,  that stuff is crap and good for practice like Carolyn Said.

 

 

Also I've been pretty impressed with greenstar. I've had a few customers request it over the oracle/avery vinyl

 

I can't imagine anyone that isn't in the business even knowing the difference and if they did they would have their own machine and requested oracle ...

 

To each their own I guess

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I have literally done thousands of coroplast signs and hundreds of banners with Greenstar. Never a single complaint. I have signs and banners that I do for my brother's business that have been in use for 3 years with Greenstar and they look as good as they ever did and for that matter as good as the few I did with Oracal. In fact, I have seen Greenstar vinyl outlast the banner substrate.

If you haven't used it enough to know...you don't know. You are just assuming.

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I started with greenstar because it was cheaper but as I need to buy more stock I typically 'upgrade' to oracle in that color. With that said I've had a few customers ask me what changed after I started using more oracle films and preferred the decals I cut for them on greenstar films. I'm not arguing that greenstar is an introductory product, but like you said anyone not in the business probably won't notice the difference anyway so if I can have a few extra rolls laying around for the day I forget to order more of a certain color that's not a bad thing.

 

Regardless that's not really my question, even if only on the basis of having scrap rolls around to do practice cuts on there is still an inherent value in the extra supplies that come with the CE5000 starter bundle. And if the CE6000 cutter doesn't have any notable improvements over the CE5000 I would rather spend $50 less and get a bunch of 'free' supplies with it. It's not a matter of not being in the budget, it's a matter of every penny counts and that $50 could be better allocated somewhere else rather than potentially wasted. I'm not in the business of wasting money if I don't need to.

 

 

 

So again, my question is, what real world differences are there between the two models? Is it worth spending the extra money on JUST the CE6000 cutter and why is it worth it? All the other threads I've found have the same responses. Either 'YES it's a newer model so obviously it's better' or 'NO they didn't really change much it's not worth the extra money' but no one elaborates further than that. You have a CE5000 mr300s, what is your take on it vs the new model? Does it have some features that you wish were on the CE5000? What are they?

 

The fact that graphtec isn't going out of their way to point out all of the ways the newer model is better than it's predecessor makes me believe there really aren't that many improvements. In fact they don't even compare it to an even older model the CE3000Mk2.

 

So far from my own research it appears the CE6000 has a faster top speed and higher cutting pressure, which are things I am not overly concerned about. I use ~300g of force on my MH series, which is what the CE5000 is rated to. Would I see a noticeable benefit to the extra 150g of pressure the CE6000 offers? I usually cut at ~100mm/s on my MH which is significantly slower than the 24in/s the CE5000 offers, so having the ability to cut at 34in/s isn't necessarily a perk IMHO. I did just notice that the CE5000 bundle comes with an extra year of warranty over the CE6000, which could be useful.

 

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I don't mind spending the extra money and getting the newer model, I just want to have peace of mind that I'm not just buying a newer name plate on the case.

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Guys I didn't see anywhere that JHew was talking 30" machines. He just wants a second opinion on the 5000 vs the 6000. IMHO I would go for the newer model specifically for the higher pressure. I realize that right now you are never going to pressure above 300 but at some point in the future you may run into something that you will really kick yourself about that. I recently started doing sand blast and my Summa only goes to 400g and it is JUST enough to get through the cheap sandblast resist that USCutter sells. I don't think I would discount what that downforce is worth. I'm with you on the speed. I run mine plenty slow. I don't own a Graphtec but all I have ever heard about them is good and the local dealer here where I live swears by them. I made the leap to a new cutter this year and it's great. I'm setting here yacking comfortably while my machine is back there busy doing its thing and I don't have to worry about it at all as it knocks out 37 copies of the current design. My P-Cut would have demanded a lot of attention and limits of only a few copies at a time or the memory would trip out. A wise friend of mine once told me: "The quality remains long after the price has been forgotten." If you are already set up with most of the stuff you need then the "free stuff" isn't really free. The value of that product however limited is still real and the actual price on the CE5000 would be that much lower if they didn't supposedly throw it in. 

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 I did just notice that the CE5000 bundle comes with an extra year of warranty over the CE6000, which could be useful.

What are you seeing as the warranty on  the CE5000-60  vs the CE6000-60? 

 

Also,  Here is the First edition   date on the user manual on the CE5000-60  right from the Graphtec website,  So the technology in those machines go back to older than 2006...If they were introduced in 2006. 

So, you don't think  technology has not advanced in over 9 years?   If not, then buy the CE5000-60... 

 

CE5000-UM-152

June 23, 2006 1st edition
GRAPHTEC CORPORATION

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Guys I didn't see anywhere that JHew was talking 30" machines. He just wants a second opinion on the 5000 vs the 6000. IMHO I would go for the newer model specifically for the higher pressure. I realize that right now you are never going to pressure above 300 but at some point in the future you may run into something that you will really kick yourself about that. I recently started doing sand blast and my Summa only goes to 400g and it is JUST enough to get through the cheap sandblast resist that USCutter sells. I don't think I would discount what that downforce is worth. I'm with you on the speed. I run mine plenty slow. I don't own a Graphtec but all I have ever heard about them is good and the local dealer here where I live swears by them. I made the leap to a new cutter this year and it's great. I'm setting here yacking comfortably while my machine is back there busy doing its thing and I don't have to worry about it at all as it knocks out 37 copies of the current design. My P-Cut would have demanded a lot of attention and limits of only a few copies at a time or the memory would trip out. A wise friend of mine once told me: "The quality remains long after the price has been forgotten." If you are already set up with most of the stuff you need then the "free stuff" isn't really free. The value of that product however limited is still real and the actual price on the CE5000 would be that much lower if they didn't supposedly throw it in. 

 

Thanks for the insights! At the moment I don't have plans to branch out beyond basic decals but it's good to know the increased pressure could be useful if I did. I've seen a lot of features like that just tossed on to make something look more advanced when you'll never really use them. I agree the inherent value of extra supplies offsets the overall cost more than the initial $50. But even just the $50 is a couple rolls of vinyl whose value in decals is significantly greater. Every penny counts when it's a side business lol.

 

 

What are you seeing as the warranty on  the CE5000-60  vs the CE6000-60? 

 

Also,  Here is the First edition   date on the user manual on the CE5000-60  right from the Graphtec website,  So the technology in those machines go back to older than 2006...If they were introduced in 2006. 

So, you don't think  technology has not advanced in over 9 years?   If not, then buy the CE5000-60... 

 

CE5000-UM-152

June 23, 2006 1st edition
GRAPHTEC CORPORATION

 

In the product descriptions...

CE5000 "A FREE 1 YEAR Service Choice Program (a Graphtec Service) Extends Warranty by 1 Year (A total of 3 years)"

CE6000 "This product includes a 2 Years warranty."

 

 

Just because it's newer, and therefore has the opportunity to use more advanced technology, doesn't mean it is actually using it. Companies use the same parts through multiple revisions all the time, realizing this has led me to spend less money on equipment (be it automotive, camera, or home theater related) many times by not buying into the idea that "just because it's newer automatically makes it better". In a lot of instances newer models do possess more advanced technology, but often times they don't. That's really what I'm trying to get to the bottom of, if the CE6000 is utilizing more advanced technology WHAT is it and WHY is it better than the older technology used in the CE5000? I'm not trying to be rude but if I was just looking for a 'yes' or 'no' answer I would have already purchased a CE5000 because a vendor flat out told me the CE6000 didn't receive any significant improvements. A lot of people online share the same opinion. But I'm looking to gain a little more knowledge from people with first hand experience. I've taken a lot of your advice on machine settings with my MH series, with good results, so I know you're an experienced individual. But I would still like to have a better understanding behind your opinion as opposed to just blindly listening, if that makes sense.

 

I've been using a rudimentary cutter for the past year so I'm not very familiar with all the features and technology the higher end cutters possess. That's why I asked the question in this forum, I figured people here would have hands on experience with one or both of these cutters and could explain, with at least a little detail, what has/hasn't changed and why it is/isn't better. The zencut green was an easy choice, I wanted a servo motor and it's price point came in well below the rest after it was discontinued. Unfortunately I didn't pull the trigger fast enough on it so now I'm left weighing more expensive options, even if they do come with higher recommendations.

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The Graphtec professional class of CE6000 cutting plotters update the extremely successful CE5000 series with improved features. The CE6000 series is also cleaner, “greener” with an electronic design and manufacturing process that minimizes the environmental impact of the hardware equipment throughout its entire life cycle.

 

 

By the way, you could go buy the Zencut Green,  That is just a rebranded GCC cutter. with a different color.

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I did read it, the only difference between it and the description on UScutters website is graphtec says it's an updated version of the CE5000 while UScutter's description says CE3000Mk2. Here's the product description for the CE5000, it's literally identical.

 

The Graphtec CE5000-60 (24") and CE5000-120 (48") professional cutting plotters update the extremely successful CE3000Mk2 series with improved features, as well as a cleaner, "greener" electronic design and manufacturing process to minimize the environmental impact of the equipment throughout its life cycle.

 

 

I've read the descriptions for both, it outlines the same features. The only differences I've come across are an increased cutting pressure and speed for the CE6000. Is that the only notable improvements they've made or are their more?

 

 

 

I'm aware the zencut was a rebranded GCC. But a major appeal of the zencut was it's price point because it was being discontinued. The new GCC units are more expensive, if I'm going to spend more money I'd rather step up to a graphtec plotter.

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Ah you're right, well partially, the CE6000-60 has a speed of 35in/s compared to the CE5000-60's 24in/s. But really the pressure is all I cared about and you don't get that until you upgrade to the bigger machine. Glad you caught that for me.

 

So effectively the only advertised advantage the CE6000-60 has over the CE5000-60 is a faster cutting speed?

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Ah you're right, well partially, the CE6000-60 has a speed of 35in/s compared to the CE5000-60's 24in/s. But really the pressure is all I cared about and you don't get that until you upgrade to the bigger machine. Glad you caught that for me.

 

So effectively the only advertised advantage the CE6000-60 has over the CE5000-60 is a faster cutting speed?

It also has the brake for the vinyl.on the rollers.  which was only on the FC units before.

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Here, pick up your rebranded Zencut.   Only this is the real GCC  vinyl cutter.    I think the green was the Puma...

 

http://www.gccworld.com/product_home.php?PROD_TYPE=cutter

 

The green was the Puma, you are correct. But the green wasn't going to run me $1250, if I'm going to spend that much money I'd rather buy a graphtec honestly.

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It also has the brake for the vinyl.on the rollers.  which was only on the FC units before.

 

What does this mean exactly? I don't know what the advantage is here.

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What does this mean exactly? I don't know what the advantage is here.

Maybe you should just address your inquiries to Graphtec,, themselves. 

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Gee, thanks? I guess I mistook the use of a web forum as a place for people to help each other out...  I'll try not to make that mistake again  :rolleyes:

 

 

Like I said here is the PUMA,  just throw some lime green paint on it..  not discontinued at all.

 

http://www.gccworld.com/product.php?MODEL=Puma

Like I said, the zencut green was discounted because IT was being discontinued, not the Puma. I don't want to pay $1250 for a Puma, if I did I would have purchased one months ago.

 

 

Thanks for your help thus far, clearly you're not wanting to provide more. FYI I did send an email to graphtec already but haven't heard back yet. I'm also expecting them to have a biased opinion just like the vendors, which was why I wanted first hand experiences from people without an agenda. And just more opinions in general. Again thank you for yours.

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Well the thing is. Not too many people own BOTH,  once you have one,  whether a CE5000  or a 6000,  you don't need another one.

 

So who are you gonna to ask.?  If they upgrade from there,,  they go to the FC  models

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