TimnAng

Almost done! (And random)

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You are the professional and should guide your customers into proper layouts, design, and font usage. That is why you are getting paid. Study up yourself. If you have no training or schooling pick up some books, shadow a sign painter, read, look, learn and most of all, never stop growing. 

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I guess the way that I see it, is that it's not how I would have chosen to showcase the design.  But, the work is good.  It's quality work, with quality materials.  Everyone has a different view of what looks good, and what doesn't.  Do I love the layout?  No.  And even more than that, I dislike the way they spread all of their lettering out all over the truck.  It isn't eye catching, and certainly not how I would choose to showcase MY business.  But, I'll be known as someone who does what the customer wants, and the way they want it with quality and efficiency.  I advertise "Custom" work... that doesn't mean doing things MY way, on THEIR product.

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Ever hear of a starving artist, Personally I like steak, I try to guide but in the end it's their money and their choice. What you are telling me is I should force conformity based on my views of what is appealing to the eye and what is not. I think that was tried before in Germany as well as a few  other places and never ended well.

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My question to those of you who don't care for the design, layout, or whatever the case may be... if in that same situation,  would you all have turned down a $900 job, because you disagree with the way they wanted things?  I'm not in a place that I have enough business, to be able to turn down an order of that size I guess.  Maybe eventually, I'll get there... but, even then, I'm not sure I'll be the type of business person that turns down an order because it's not to my personal liking.  

 

I see all of your points, and my feelings aren't at all hurt by any of the comments or criticisms here.  Like others have said, I do believe that if you don't want to hear what others think, don't post it.  I was aware that not everyone would think I did a good job, and I'm alright with that.  I'll always take what others have to say, and use what I can to improve.  And if anyone has any suggestions as to how to more effectively sway someone into a different design realm, please do share- because I did try, and more than once.  

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Besides if we didn't do these jobs what would there be to laugh at on youtube. The work we do is entertainment for those who know better. Kinda like a car accident you don't want to see the mayhem but just can't help yourself.

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My question to those of you who don't care for the design, layout, or whatever the case may be... if in that same situation,  would you all have turned down a $900 job, because you disagree with the way they wanted things?  I'm not in a place that I have enough business, to be able to turn down an order of that size I guess.  Maybe eventually, I'll get there... but, even then, I'm not sure I'll be the type of business person that turns down an order because it's not to my personal liking.  

 

I see all of your points, and my feelings aren't at all hurt by any of the comments or criticisms here.  Like others have said, I do believe that if you don't want to hear what others think, don't post it.  I was aware that not everyone would think I did a good job, and I'm alright with that.  I'll always take what others have to say, and use what I can to improve.  And if anyone has any suggestions as to how to more effectively sway someone into a different design realm, please do share- because I did try, and more than once.  

 

Hey, if some of you want to go all "Soup Nazi" on your customers and send them away without paying until they come back and admit that you are right, then more power to you.  That just means that people like Anj, Jaybird and myself will shake our heads in amusement, take your customer's money and give them whatever crap it is they want.  Like Jaybird, I didn't start this business in an effort to redecorate the world with what I think is pretty - I started this business to put cash in my pocket (and give me something to do other than sit on my butt watching TV).

 

It is my job to offer alternatives to the customer and then give them what they want, good or bad.

 

It is not my job to tell them "No, your idea sucks and doesn't meet my standards as a designer, so do it my way or take your money and go elsewhere - No cut vinyl for you - two weeks!"

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If anyone gets a customer that they don't want to give them what they want please feel free to put them in touch with me and I will gladly take their money and even send you a thank you card.

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 would you all have turned down a $900 job, because you disagree with the way they wanted things?

Maybe.....  circumstances dictate my decision.....

I pm'd a friend here and asked.....


Would you do a sticker promoting beastiality..??
His answer... No...  " I do have standards, even if they are a bit low"

Same goes for using junk material....  Would I use it to save $10.00 or $20.00 on a job......  NO.....

Why??  Because when is turns to poop in 24 months....  he is going to swear that I did a garbage job...
AND....  he is not ever going to tell his buddies that HE chose the low grade material because he was CHEAP.

IMO....  Always use the best, and do the best.....  it pays back in spades.

I would rather go watch the grass grow, than do a job which was knowingly substandard.

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I'd have to watch it grow if I passed on the ugly jobs because I wouldn't be able to buy gas for the mower.

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 would you all have turned down a $900 job, because you disagree with the way they wanted things?

Maybe.....  circumstances dictate my decision.....

I pm'd a friend here and asked.....

Would you do a sticker promoting beastiality..??

His answer... No...  " I do have standards, even if they are a bit low"

Same goes for using junk material....  Would I use it to save $10.00 or $20.00 on a job......  NO.....

Why??  Because when is turns to poop in 24 months....  he is going to swear that I did a garbage job...

AND....  he is not ever going to tell his buddies that HE chose the low grade material because he was CHEAP.

IMO....  Always use the best, and do the best.....  it pays back in spades.

I would rather go watch the grass grow, than do a job which was knowingly substandard.

 

I believe there are always exceptions.  Would I do a bestiality decal?  No... that's a matter of morals.  There are many subjects that I would NOT do an order for, and have my name attached to.  I think that's different than a disagreement on layout.  Would I use substandard material to save a few bucks?  Nope, wouldn't do that either, because I think that reflects more-so on my name, than a poor layout choice by a paying customer.

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When the economy tanked I saw several established sign shops go belly up and I made the decision to take every customer I cold and keep the one's I had. At least some of these other shops did nice work but were unwilling to give in to customers wants due to it being beneath them. To those shops I say thank you to driving them to people like myself and sorry to hear about the bankruptcy sale.

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There will be times for all of us that we say no to a customer. People are crazy sometimes and want weird or impractical things. One of my recent customers wanted a word placed in what I thought was a weird location on his car. I taped it in place and we looked at it in both locations and he made the decision. I am ok with that even though I thought it looked off. 

 

Now if what the customer wants is going to in some way make your company or your quality of work look bad then I am all for taking a stand. An example could be if the customer wants the vinyl installed on the inside of tinted glass store window and it's going to look terrible. Also that most people in your community are going to know that you did this work. 

 

I definitely don't want people to assume that it was my planning or skills that creating a bad looking sign. If I created something that looked bad I would redo or fix it immediately so that the customer and public wouldn't see it. 

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"I definitely don't want people to assume that it was my planning or skills that creating a bad looking sign."

 

Exactly the point.

 

The MOORE'S TREE SERVICE sign in the opening post of this thread makes it appear like the sign person is incompetent.

 

Simple as that.

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Remember the Russian comedian  Yakov Smirnoff...:huh:

"What a country"

How lucky are we all....  Really..!!

We all get to make decisions which fit who we are, and where we are at any given time.
 

Individually we do what fits us.  Some feel one way, and others feel differently.

In the end it comes down to what level of comfort we want to be in.

I have had the privilege of being extremely well off, and dirt poor... more than once.
Having less now is really having more.  I have no constraints of travel, conferences, speaking,

posturing, meetings, and all those things which go along with being mainstream.

I can chose to learn cutting, vectoring, layering, set up...... OR
I can go to the back and play in my junk pile.....  or veg....  and watch people fly anvils..!!!! ;D

 

It all comes down to what is comfortable to us individually....

"What a country"

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What one sees as beautiful, others see as ugly and vice versus. Anyone who says their opinion is end all be all and would rather go hungry then do what a customer wants, then that person needs to look into their own character. Using subpar material or something like that is one thing, but telling a customer you wont do something cause you dont think it looks pretty enough for your taste is ridiculous in my opinion. But to each their own.

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When it directly reflects your business because you are in the "pretty enough for your taste" line of work you dang right if it looks bad I will not produce it. 

 

We all work in advertising, brand promotion and marketing by doing what we do. How is that promoting anything when what you output is unpleasant to the eye? It hurts your customer and yourself. The customer is not always right, if they were why are they hiring you (a professional in the advertising field) and not just going to ebay or Ace Hardware and buying letters to stick on there? 

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The problem I see here is you're grouping all businesses and all customers together. I think there are at least 3 levels of businesses dealing w/ the customers in that grouping.

1: Like you said the ebayers/hardware store letter folks (less than 10% of my customer fall into this category)

2: The ones who know what they want and don't care what you or I feel (most of mine fall in this category)

3: The ones who value our input and want the best they can get for the money (maybe 10% of mine fall in this category)

 

So if you look at these #'s it becomes clear to me that we all have a place in this industry and for sure we aren't competing for the same customers. Like I said before if you don't want to bend to their will send em to me and I'll handle and your conscience will be clear that you didn't do it.

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This has to be 1 of the more interesting conversations in awhile. I guess we need to agree to disagree.

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That's what I think as well, Jay.  No way will we ever agree on this topic, or probably many others.  And if we did, how boring would that be?  

 

And on that note, I have one last picture to share, regarding this job- it's the 28"x26" tree that I cut for the hood of one of their trucks.  

post-37278-0-09803300-1371759540_thumb.j

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I simply don't put up with customers who are WRONG.

If they're obviously not right, then they're not right, and I have no inclination to deal with them any further.

 

By the way, here is an infamous example of a business that feels many of their customers are wrong ---

 

Amy's Baking Company, Scottsdale, AZ.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/gordon-ramsay-quits-filming-kitchen-nightmares-episode-article-1.1344121

I am just curious about something? Exactly HOW can a customer be wrong when they are telling you what they want? I would LOVE to know where the authority comes from, to tell the customer that can be wrong when describing what THEY want!

 

I cut and weeded an entire set of "decals" for a big truck. Sadly I wasn't allowed to install them, and the driver (the one who installed them) just did a horrible job, and I even asked him to not tell ANYBODY I did that work! But, I made the $450.00!!!

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I did this order for this morning. Shirts were black w/ fluorescent orange letters and cam q/ fluorescent orange. Visors were cammo w/ fl. orange and magnet was white w/ pastel orange. I hated it and whey they picked it up I was expecting buyers remorse but to my surprise they loved all of it and put the camo shirts on in the store and stuck the magnet on their truck before they left. Far be it from me to not take their money and smile.

 

post-40404-0-00819300-1371760943_thumb.j

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Good for you, Jaybird.  I'm not a fan of that font, but to each their own!  As long as they were happy.

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In the construction side I will refuse to do something that could be a danger to someone but if they want a room painted barney purple and green ill do that the same on a sign . The sign that I put on my truck or job would reflect my image not the sign makers. If I go to a restaurant and ask for a rare ribeye I would not accept a chicken breast because the waiter thought it was what I should have. In almost all instances the customer is right .

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